RuneScape talk:Clan Chat/Requests for CC Rank

Closure...for now
I believe there are more than enough ranked people in the chat now. Every time I visit the chat (which is every day), there are at least 3 ranked users, and occasionally I see that ranked users far outnumber unranked users. Should we close these requests for now until we need more ranked users? 17:19, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Earlier today I was the sole ranked user in the CC: however, it was barely a 5 minute period before more ranks logged on/joined (though somewere corporals that can't kick anyway, at the moment =/). Let the current requests go through (including Lewa's), then close it. No more requests should be opened.
 * On a related note, Vex's request needs to be closed - I would do it but an uninvolved admin should do it. 17:29, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Sounds good. 22:52, 17 May 2009 (UTC)


 * There are two more requests. o.O Any thoughts on whether we should close them or let them through?  17:33, 24 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep them open until the current ones are done, then close it =D 00:24, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

I second that -- 00:26, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Reopen it. The Australasian timezone needs more ranks and they can't get more with this page closed. 18:44, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Time Zones
I think we have more than enough ranked users in America and areas in similar time zones. I live in Australia, and I find that often when I come home and play RS, there are not many people in the CC, sometimes none. This is because most of the people living in America are asleep (however, when I play in the mornings, the CC is often packed with 5+ ranked people). Thus I feel a need to focus on choosing people who live in Australia, Asia, New Zealand or somewhere with a similar time zone. 08:24, 20 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't think timezones should really be a major factor in selecting ranked users. This seems very limiting, and the point of having a ranked user at all times is great, but if worse comes to worse, you can just hit "Ignore" and add said user to your list, blocking all of his text inputs. Just my two cents. -- 23:28, 20 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Timezones shouldn't determine whether a person gets a rank or not. Per Chaos Monk. 18:32, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Only it's all editors are equal regardless of location?
 * 2. People can lie about their time zone, and IP addresses don't always tell the truth. Butterman62 (talk) 23:10, 23 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I meant to say shouldn't... STUPID TYPOS!!!!!!! 03:52, 24 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Oh, okay. Nevermind then. :) Butterman62 (talk) 03:56, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm not saying that. I'm saying we should try to get more people in this particular time zone. Currently, requests have been closed as there are 'more than enough ranked users' but I find in my time zone there are often no ranked users. If anything, it's the closing of this that is against AEAE. What's with that? 03:03, 30 May 2009 (UTC)



Here is a screenshot of the clan chat taken at 5:12 pm East Australian time on Sunday, the 31st of May. As you can see, the chat has lots of people in it but no admins. It is usually like this, only less crowded. Occasionally Jediadam or Caleb are on, but this image still reinforces my point that we should unprotect this page. 07:19, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Soldier came right after. 07:28, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Whatever, but the point still stands that there are often no ranked users with the clan chat in this time zone. 17:49, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 * During this period, exactly how many times was a kick needed? 20:55, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 * None, but C00l Dud4 wanted to kick me for reasons I find really sad. "You're not a wikian so we can kick you". Pathetic. -- 20:59, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Are you talking about when you spammed the chat yesterday with "@@@@@@@@" a dozen times pretending that you had just got a visage drop?? To me it would have been tempting to kick you if I had the powers. You totally disrupted the conversation because of the mass amount of @@@s and kept on spamming even when people asked you to stop. Plus you didn't actually get a visage drop and was spamming for the sake of it.
 * Also to what Gaz said, the point is not that nobody needed to be kicked, it is that someone had the potential to kick if it was necessary. It is like a safety precaution, with it being better to have one just encase and not use it rather then not having one and needing it. I didn't mean allude it to condoms, it just seemed the best way to explain it.
 * Everybody gets excited when they get a Visage drop, and nobody told him to stop...
 * http://i650.photobucket.com/albums/uu224/Frede173/visage.png 10:23, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * If that was the case Supirion, I would've warned you, and since you carried on when others asked you to stop, I assume you would continue and I would've kicked you. But whatever, its past.
 * Yeah, I see your point, it does help; at times (mainly from about now to 2-3h hours time) I'm the only rank online (sometimes Caleb is on, other times some sergeants are on), however the CC has hardly anyone in it (often ≤5, but me being alone is not uncommon). However I never see any trouble. We may need some ranks in time zone shown above, but we can't reopen RfRs for just one rank, from a certain time zone. We don't know if they're telling the truth about their time zone, or if they will be on when they're needed. Also, there would be outrage from the other users nominated for an RfR - we rank someone when their RfR is on hold, simply because of their time zone? Hardly equality between editors. 10:29, 1 June 2009 (Uhttp://runescape.wikia.com/index.php?title=RuneScape_talk:Clan_Chat/Request_for_CC_Rank&action=editTC)
 * I'm not sure, but I think that other ranked users could be doing something and do not wished to be bothered. Sometimes, I am online and do not join the cc yet because I happened to be busy. If someone would pm me for help, I would rush right over and help. 10:34, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * He didn't get a visage drop, he was just pretending he did. He wasn't actually typing that because he was excited, he was pretending to be excited and was spamming for the sake of it. Also, I remember me saying stop spamming to him. I assuming that the reason above that superion is talking about is the same incident. That is 2 people. I got to go but I will write more later. 10:41, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * If someone was lying about their time zone, someone would quickly notice that they're never on in Australian/Asian time. Easy to fix. Also, I see trouble semi-regularly. See here, for example - and there were no kickers on at the time. Since then, the user in question hasn't caused any problems (as far as I'm aware) but there have been other incidents within the CC where a kicker has been needed. And, as Evil Yanks said earlier, it's good just to have a kicker in case one is needed. I see your point about it being against AEAE, but we need either:

1. More kickers in the Australian/Asian/New Zealand time zone OR

2. American or British users who are willing to stay up quite late or wake up very early to moderate the clan chat. An example of a user who does this is Jediadam.

06:31, 2 June 2009 (UTC)


 * To Gaz: I agree with you that it would be unfair to say "Nobody can apply for a RFCC...except for you, you and you". I believe that it would cause more problems then it would solve. Though, AEAE should have nothing to do with it. You could claim that there is not AEAE right now because some candidates just as good or better then some of the old candidates wont get a rank for a while because they waited a day too late to put in the RFCC or because they went on holiday and came back to late. All editors can never be equal because of the context of the time. Sorry that this is not well written, mind wandering. 07:08, 2 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I think what Evil Yanks means that this is just as fair as if someone was unable to submit their RFR request before it closed. 18:03, 2 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Figured a simple way of putting it. While ranked people are needed in the Australasia timezone, trying to fix it would cause too many problems. That is why nothing should be done right now and just wait until RFRs open again.
 * In reflection, what I wrote yesterday did not (and still doesn't) make much sense.

I think that not enough users are ranked. Mostly in America. I live in America, and everytime I go on the R s Wikia CC, there is like no more than 2 ranked users. Remember the wikifests in the winter and Spring 2009? Wasn't there a Clan wars activity? Well, no one was able to challenge because They were not ranked. Maybe all users should be at least a private.


 * Impossible, its a free account, only 100 people may be ranked. We have way more than that that would like to be ranked. And 1 is enough to kick, why you think we need more than 2 at once is beyond me.--Degenret01 18:44, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

When are the requests going to be re-opened? 07:54, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * When its viewed that there aren't enough ranked members ? 08:24, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I completely forgot I posted here lol =S. 06:18, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * But there AREN'T enough ranked members, especially in my time zone. 10:38, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Telos, I completely agree with you on this one. 08:05, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

So on average, how long do you see no ranked members in the CC? And how much trouble is there that calls for ranked members?--Degenret01 08:33, 8 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, once, my friend and I were the only ones in the cc with this guy called Zaltais. He was spamming up the chat and attacking my friend and we could do nothing except add him to our ignore. 08:40, 8 June 2009 (UTC)


 * There should always be at least one ranked member in the chat to deal with problems should they arise. I don't understand why this has been closed because the Australasian time zone needs more ranked users. 20:17, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

I think that Telos is right we need more ranks during the later eastern Australian time zone there is alot of times when i log on and there isn't any for hours at a time we need more ranked users for this time 10:37, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Gotta agree with Dryth and telos, at my time the clan chat is a no-ranked user time. There needs to be more ranked users for the +5:00 to the +12:00 time 10:46, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Proposal
I propose that we open up the rfr page for east australian users, (can't admins check where users are from? <(-...-)>)

Discussion
Support - As nominator. 10:48, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Support - As a person that believes there isn't enough ranked users for east Australian timezones 11:59, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Oppose - The big problem is that people will lie, and the tool you are talking about is called CheckUser. CheckUser is a tool designed to look at a user's IP and some other server log data about them. However, there are two problems. First, people can use an IP address that are very inaccurate in telling where they live; someone living in America could have an IP address indicating Brazil or something. Second, CheckUser is only supposed to be used in the most extreme cases; privacy is a serious issue and private details should not be unveiled at whim. For more information, you can read here. Butterman62 (talk) 14:01, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I should also clarify, admins cannot checkuser. Only people in the "Check users" group can do so. Butterman62 (talk) 14:02, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Oppose - Per Butterman and my reasons above (basically not fair on others and against RS:AEAE). 18:48, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Oppose - Per Butter and Gaz. That's utterly ridiculous. You can't say "you aren't allowed to request a rank because you aren't from Eastern Australia". It's all or none. 18:50, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Oppose I think we have plenty of ranked users already ‎Atlandy 18:54, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Oppose - If something comes up, then we'll see to it. But I haven't heard of any problems in the clan chat due to lack of ranked users, so it's fine. Also, as mentioned above, we can't just hand a rank to some user based on where he lives. 19:00, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Comment - Look, just close this. 20:10, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Comment - Why don't we simply unlock this? We need more ranked people from the Australasian timezone; that doesn't mean we should cut off the people from other continents too. Just reopen the requests. 06:09, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Oh, and to Tienjt0 - There have been several occasions. Please see Supirion's and my comments above. Also, if you search the Yew Grove you can see I started a thread about banning someone from the CC, and the issue stemmed from lack of kickers to deal with the problem. 06:11, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You mean banning legaking? I called calebchiam in, you could have told him everything. 08:19, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Telos, are you talking about that incident where Supirion was spamming (as shown in the screenshot a section above)? If so, it's rather ironic that Supirion wants the requests to be reopened when he was the person causing the problem... also, I see no recent proposals in the Yew Grove about problems in the chat that arose from lack of ranked users. 12:25, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, I am talking about the issue with Legaking. And Caleb didn't log on until AFTER it had settled down. I still have the screenshots. I can upload them if you want them. 18:42, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Where did I mention Legaking? :/ 21:13, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Comment - I also find it hard to notice that every one who opposed has a rank and does not live in Australasia. 07:50, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Oppose - There is simply no fair way to get more ranked. There is definitly a need for them though. Yesterday when I was on for about an hour, (from 7.30-8.30pm Eastern Aus) there were 6 people in the cc but no ranks. None of the ranks on my friends list were on either. 11:18, 11 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment In the instance above when there were 6 people in, but no ranked...did you need a ranked person? More often than not, a ranked person is not needed, and when one is needed, one can be called in.  Ranked users do not have to be babysitters and supply constant vigilance over the cc  ‎[[Image:Easter egg.PNG]]Atlandy 16:01, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Comment - I am presently uploading the images of the incident with Legaking. It shows that there were no people in the Clan Chat to deal with the problem when it was at hand. Shortly after Legaking calmed down, Caleb joined the chat to help mediate, but it was already over. 19:05, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/uu293/Telos40/Look-nosysops.jpg

The images aren't in order, sorry. Start at the bottom-left corner and work your way up to the top. There is a line missing at the top, where (on one side) I say "Legaking, are you Trying to start a flame war?!" and on the other side I say "I'm trying to mediate." 19:15, 11 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment Is this an isolated incident? I would think so.  Kicking people on the cc is not a common occurance.  One time (above) where a ranked user isn't on.  ‎[[Image:Easter egg.PNG]]Atlandy 19:24, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Comment - But there shouldn't be occasions when a rank is unavailable when needed, like shown here. If there are multiple times when a rank is needed but unavailable then there clearly AREN'T enough ranks. Also, why don't you want RfRs reopened? 20:42, 11 June 2009 (UTC)


 * ...Telos, that happened two months ago. Have there been any incidents since then? Also, how can we guarantee that ranking a person in your time zone would solve any problems in the chat? Unless that particular person logs on for the exact same duration of time every day without fail, there will always be a time when no ranked users are on. Even in US time zones, where there are tons of people ranked, there are occasionally times when no ranks are in the chat. Would ranking even more people in US time zones solve the problem?


 * In additon... I'm not trying to sound mean (and sorry if I do), but didn't you say that you deserved part of the blame in that incident? Hardcrewdy (or whatever) played most of the role in angering Legaking. That incident was really not Legaking's fault, although he shouldn't have started flaming. But Hardcrewdy shouldn't have said what he said to start Legaking's flaming in the first place. 21:13, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

High Oppose for reopening rfccr - Everyday I log on to the cc,I see at least 10 ranked. admitted,I've never been on at the same time as scorch(telos),because he lives on the other side of the world from me,so I cannot account for those times. But I am always surprised at how many ranked are in the CC. there is absolutely no need to give out more ranks. and RS:AEAE,meaning no editors receiv more rights just for living in austrailia.Sorry,telos,sorry. -- 03:35, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

When I'm on during the day i see a lot of ranked users on but by the time its the afternoon here there isn't any anywhere i know there is only a few incidents but that doesn't change the fact that there still isn't the ranked users in my opinion it is better to be safe then sorry. 09:45, 12 June 2009 (UTC)