Talk:Draconic visage/Archive 1

67.173.160.92 16:10, 13 June 2009 (UTC)Hey big thanks to the person who un redlinked and linked up the dragons and oziach its something i find myself unable to do (lazyness).Dark0805 23:13, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

well so far ive counted atleast 4k black dragon iron and steel kills together and yet no vissage ive spent ages trying to get and u ppl always talk about luck its just some random generated numbers from a computer program to determain ur drop there may be a little luck included but i highly doubt that rs makes it almost inpossable for people to get a vissage just like a bandos item from gwd the fact is they have computers generalting everything especailly drops.

Luck or Planned
Now if you think about it, computers don't have the ability to randomize drops since it runs on numbers and can't have a coin flipping type of program. Giving a percent chance is like giving it a guess... it's not going to be the same for everyone. The game most likely gave a starting equation, and the x's and y's are just based on other drops by unknown monsters. So think of it like this: In the last hour, a waterfeind dropped 2,234 charms in that world. Then a hellhound dropped 17 clue scrolls in that hour. And in that hour 3,456 iron dragons were killed. Then they would add the first two together, and subtract it from the amount of iron dragons killed. After that, they would use that number to give that numbered iron dragon killed to drop a visage. Confusing, I know. And this isn't the real equation. All I'm really saying is that it is impossible for it to be a random drop. Though it seems to me, that the first drop seems to be the "luckiest". So, I suggest that if your first KBD drop isn't a visage, try the black drags, then irons, steels and finally miths. If your first drops on every type of dragon fails, I suggest hunting iron dragons for a Draconic Visage.
 * First of all, this would be way too complicated to program in. You would have to have a big circle linking all of the drops of every single creature and you could plan exactly what would drop for every creature for each kill. Rather, random number generators do exist and are most likely used. True, they are not completly random, but they are random enough that you would have had to kill black dragons since the day of their release to notice ANY sort of pattern. Even then, the odds of there being a pattern would be low. Think about it this way, Java can take care of numbers up to about 2 billion. This means that a random number generator can produce 2 billion different values, meaning that you would have to kill more than two billion dragons if all the drops were lined up. (such as: 3 green charms, javelins, and then visage, and nothing could change that). When you then factor in that the drops could also be lined up according to seconds and not kills (A pointer points at one drop at 1.00 seconds, and a different drop if you kill it at 1.01 seconds), it grows still more random. It would be still more random if the time simply changed the drops according to kills. So time equal to 1.00 would give drop list of green charms, javelins..., but a time 1.01 would give a drop list of javelins, visage... So, yes, the drops are not random, and you could figure out exactly what you would get if you found Jagex's formulas, however, they are random enough that you cannot assign a formula to them. Mjc3 00:50, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

This is very very inaccurate. I program Java and a random number generator is built in and easy to use. It simply works like this: Pick random number between 1 and 100 Case 1: coins (then another random number generator to pick the amount) Case 2: rune kiteshield

Now of course there will be more cases labeled as coins than rune kiteshields.

This is one of many forms of generating a random number. Looking from a programmers perspective, it would be much, much harder to program drops based on other events within the game.

I program a bit, and maybe the game just picks a random integer between one and 5000 every single time you kill a dragon, and if the number is 1, you get a visage... I would like to remind everyone of the Chaos Theory which is in fact where seemingly unrelated events are eventually related by other seemingly unrelated events until it forms a chaotic web of related yet unrelated events. So a drop is in fact not random at all because the idea of randomness is simply that an idea- Otot22
 * And the Chaos Theory is just that, a theory. The truth is, we have no way to prove either way. But seeing as how all other drops are random, there is no reason to think this one is not. 19:26, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Hey people, I program as well, however I'm not a beginner like I have noticed most of you are. You see, sure, it can pick a number from 1 to 2,000,000 HOWEVER it may seem random. Its HOW THEY PICK THE NUMBER. The Chaos Theory is quite an easy way to tell an explanation of this "Randomness". I have gotten a visage, and so has my buddy, we always TRIED to get one alone. It never worked out, however; once we teamed up in clan + loot-share FRIST KILL. We must have soloed about 3K+ of each dragon steel, black, and iron before this. - Rune_Boy215

Hi everyone. Computers CAN actually generate completely random numbers by utilizing special hardware just made for that purpose. There exist numerous hardware peripherals just to do that: generate completely random numbers. (They work by measuring something completely random, like outside humidity, radiation changes in some small quantity of material, changes in radio background noise, etc.) However, I doubt Jagex uses such techniques... (Balekfonok)

"If you want to get a visage in 5 minutes you go there after you kill the first steel dragon you drop 100k and when you kill second steel dragon you will get a visage 100% i tryed it workes so dam good." ...im sorry, but if you belive this, you would have to be the most stupid person in the world, there is no point in trying to explain it to you noob, you just fail...sad,sad noob. go die in a hole f-wit!

Drop Rates
Imagine you place 5000 pieces of paper in a hat... On EVERY piece is written Dragon bones and Iron Bars, about 300 out of the 5000 say Dragon Bones, Iron Bars, and Dragon Legs. And on ONE single piece, it says Dragon Bones, Iron Bars, and Visage. Every time you kill a dragon a "hand" pulls a piece of paper, and once it is pulled out you receive the items written on that paper, it is then immediately put back in. The key is that THE "PAPER" IS IMMEDIATELY PUT BACK IN. This makes it so it is still a 1/5000 Chance. It doesn't mean that if you get the visage you have to wait 4999 kills for another, it is possible you could get two in a row. This is what makes common drops so common. Like Runite Limbs may be written on 4500 out of the 5000 pieces and because they are put back in every time you kill a dragon it will always remain a 4500 out of 5000 chance. (Note- Numbers were made up.) On a final note: It is a FACT that NO ONE knows the drop rate. It is physically impossible to calculate without the value of "x" (x being the number of Visages in the game). The only way anyone could figure it out is if they knew the exact amount of Visages in the game. If one did, they could use that number to discover how many dragons have been killed that dropped them and ya da ya da ya da... And even after all that, it would just be an average drop rate. So yeah. You get the point? -Dale of Hope

That's all well and good, but explain clue scrolls in that theory.

I think this theory is abit whack. its a good point, quote andrew "there are a different quantity of numbers in a box ie 1-100, when a monster dies a random number in this box is selected" and im guessing that would be your drop, with metals there 100% drop is always bones and bars, so they would not come under this "numbered box" as they are not randomly generated ;). lets say an iron dragon has 40 possible drops (bloods, limbs etc) they would each be classed as a number (1 could be coins 8 could be a visage 39 could be dragon legs). when you've hit the final hit and you see the monster dying. during that time this box is randomly selecting a number to appear. again just to clear up. any 100% drop will not be in the same box as the actual drops (bloods etc). a 100% drop will be in a seperate box automatically waiting to drop. - Whitey _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ When i was around level 102 combat(now 109 without summoning)i used to kill iron dragons ALL THE TIME tirelessly, killing about 9 a trip. I musta done this for about a month(not constantly but on most days id do a couple trips). Then one day not long after Dragonfire Shield release i gatherd up some food to try my luck for some dragon legs. I did 3 trips of iron dragons and on my 4th started thinking "maybe steels would drop the D legs", so after killing a iron dragon i attacked and killed a steel dragon that dragon droped the visarge. It felt like amazing luck it really did. Then the next trip i got my dragon legs. And a week later i got a dragon skirt too! I was totally thrilled! Becuase these 3 drops was the only rare drops i have ever gotten and i have never had a dragon item drop EVER not even a med helm. I do beleave in acc luck but you cant expect to get a super expensive item to fall into your hands after just a day of trying after all the last thing jagex want is another get rich quick scheme. Yesterday i did my first trip of steel dragons since i got my drops and i got 2 rune maces and a rune hachet, iv never been so lucky. So its obviously somthing to do with how many you can kill an hour for most drops but becuase its concidered a "bonus drop" there could be some special requirement to getting one like: Dedication Amount killed Rate of kills Food used prayer used potions used And even What number dragon in the area! But i think no one will ever understand this drop becuase it is far to rare. - Knightjj13 ________________________________________________________________________________________________________

This is stupid guys there is a REAL drop rate it is planned by a program even a retard could make. I know how games work and this one uses a special drop rate but that dosen't mean you will get it in 100 kills if it says 1/100 it will mean u will likey have to kill 100 but other than that there is a real drop rate i've killed probly 20 steel and 40 iron so far ive gotten d skirt and lookin forward to visage

I kill around 20 King black dragons a day and have so for the last month or so...i have yet to see a visage

Who calculated the drop rates? Where's your source? I'd like to know if 1 in 32 for the KBD is accurate, my friend and I have killed 23 tonight and one hasn't dropped yet. Chissey 06:39, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

I calculated my drop rates from 24 independent drop logs on the official RuneScape forums and fansite forums (Each log contains at least 2000 kills, and the deviation from my final answer is within a reasonable margin). The total number of King Black Dragons killed included in these logs is 927, number of Draconic visage drops is 28. Since we are talking about Java, I automatically rounded the final answer to one out of a power of two. Doomedrusher|Talk| |Contributions| 14:39, 15 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Ah yes, I think I saw that thread. Must've seen it in it's earliest stages, though. Well, I think I'll add my rates to the list after I get a few. Thanks a ton, man, 1 in 32 is awesome. Chissey 15:46, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

1/32 I not even close! I have soloed hundreds, and all the drop rates logs estimates it to be in the hundred, I have gotten only 1 from KBD and that was after more than 200 kills with my team, I split about 4mil of the drop,

I myself believe the drop rate is a 1/135 chance, but you will not surely get it in that many.

I can solo about 3 or 4 kbds per a single trip, if a visage drops that often I would get it in 10 trips, there would be no way the visages would be 25mil if I can get in about 3 hours.

He is absolutly right. the drop rate of draconic visage at King black dragon is not 1/32 it is believed that it's 1/110 or so. like he said would the visage be 25mil and u can get 1 every 3hours?Johnjack922 09:17, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

It would be impossible to have the exact drop rate unless you consult the game code. I suggest we remove any talk on drop rates in the article. Killioman 19:47, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

I think i killed about 500 drags in zanaris before i got my 1st visage (which i lost thank you power cut >=/ ) i then killed another 1000 Black dragons before i got my 2nd one, will i have to kill 2000 before my 3rd :O, ive already killed another 200 or so and no drop, plus all the times ive killed iron and steels (i normally kill 20 a week) and have done for weeks and no drops off them either =[--Eminemster2k 18:15, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

I actually managed to get a visage after only 100 kills at black dragons. Lucky me :)

I'm thinking that possibly, this 'wheel' could differ for every player. Example, maybe every 100th or 1000th player could have better rate for a rare drop. Like, say i was the 100 or 1000th player to create an account, and my rare drop percentage would be say, 15% instead of 5%. Or perhaps, there is a 'wheel' that is spun to determine the fate or your permanent 'wheel'?

I will agree that certain accounts have different luck rates. My account used to have no luck, but lately idk what happened. I decided that everyone needs ancients so I did Dt, the chest you have to open with lockpicks, i did on first try.

Months later I decided to try my luck again, and decided to read up about what Barrows was and what the rewards are and how you do it. I was a complete Barrows noob, never been. Then on my first try, first run ever, I get Dharoks helm. Insane luck.

On my first run to the Taverly chest, I got the rune Bars. My point is my Account has luck, and it would't suprise me if some accounts were actully luckier than others. Italian song 22:09, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

(Read the first paragraph under the iron dragons section for more info on the 'wheel')

Well i think i have a "lucky account" so far everything i've been lucky in, on my main i used to have no luck at all! I do barrows on my new account now and i usually get like 10 items a day...I went iron dragons first time and got 2 dragon drops i have also gotten 2 visage drops in 1.3k black dragons Thats luck! My friend has killed over 3k dragons and no visage so i believe there are "lucky accounts" or just plain coincidence.

I've killed like. 160 steel dragons so far. around 20 iron. (i like steel better :) over three days, and in those kills i've gained one set of dragon platelegs and one dragon plateskirt.. So far, visage is totally avoiding me. one day i'll get it. Drop rate of 1/2 would be nice. haha

Interesting, I managed to get a Draconic visage in one trip to the Taverly dungeon, and it was only my 4th trip there. Lucky me... Nat12345919 05:28, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

0 for 2000 at black dragons. It is obviously based on luck. there is no predictable way to say how many you have to kill to get one. It could be 1 or 100000...RobyImmortal 24:52, 12 March 2009

Well I myself have killed 2203 black dragons, (I've kept track by subtracting the ranging xp I have now, from when I started, then divide that number by the amount of xp each dragon gives (840ish), since I've only been ranging these guys) and I have gotten ZERO visage. I see it as pure luck even though I know that the computer can't be random. My friend got one at 726 (he just counted hides and showed them to me), and I'm sure we've all seen the video about the guy getting one at 126 hides, but the way I look at it is this: I always think to myself that I should never quit until I get one because the very next drop could be a visage. You people who have already gotten one, or even more, have gotten two... should not complain about getting the next one. - James13_13

Drop rates are not always correct, but draconic visage seems to be a very rare drop compared to the rates. I killed around 375 kbd's before i got the visage drop. I used about 3M in food and other supplies, and got 15M, that was cheap, but I'm still happy :).

I was at kbd today 7 hours ago with a team of three. On our 5th kill we got a visage and it split 5.6m each (i'm not greedy that I was in a team). That was probably my 20th king black dragon. I think it is totally chance since many people need to kill thousands to even get one, or not get one at all. - Smithy Smoke

I also had an incredibly lucky KBD visage drop lately, i got a 3 man split on out 15th kill, 6.5mil split :) maybe it depends on how many people kill the monster, cause the drop rate seems to be higher at KBD and thats the only one a team can fight... maybe. they also just might drop a visage every certain amount of kills over all the worlds or based on a time thingo.. if you kill one 8 GMT exactly you get a visage well never know

--- Orbital909 - I Personally believe that drop rates are depicted on a "dice roll" ideal. Imagine a 1d100, Player A rolls the die 100 times and never lands on "1". Now Player B rolls it 50 times and hits "1" twice. Player C rolls it once and gets "1". Player C would be considered "quite lucky", Player B would be considered getting a "decent drop rate", and Player A would think that it's an "incredibly rare item" or "a very low drop rate"

I don't think luck has anything to do with it, a dice generator would be applicable enough, i.e. 1d3 for common drops, 1d20 for uncommon and 1d1000 for rare. --- I think accounts are lucky because on one of my accounts I had up to black defender and 10+ clue scrolls and on my newer account(1st got banned) I got 10+ rune defenders and only 1 clue =S --- I'm a very strong believer that what JaGeX do is when the monsters are spawned, they hold a different drop for everyone, so you have to be in 1 particular world killing 1 particular dragon to receive it, some guy could have stolen your dragon, and get a rubbish loot, and if you got the kill you would have received a visage, so all of this about the "1/32, 1/1500, 1/110, is completely not true, it's about killing the dragon that holds a visage for you.

I think I'd like to bring levels into this, and more than just visage, and drop rate, in the Party Room also. I have noticed whenever I'm at a Drop Party, the noob gets the good item. I sometimes go to Drop Parties just to test my "luck" and I usually get feathers. Then I went on my noob acc just for fun, and I get dragon battle axe. Coincidence? Also, I have soloed Kbd a lot, getting a good 12+ kills each time, and I have yet to gain a visage, when my friends 108 and 109 both soloed and both got visage AND Kbd heads. Note: They also got kbd heads JUST before visage, so if you get kbd heads, hang in there for one more kill, it'll be worth it.

Maybe LSP (Loot Share Probability) based upon Drop Rate. Would that be so unbelievable? Say you don't pick up any good drops when soloing (Visage, Hilt etc..) Would those drops decrease in rarity? Probably not, but as a few have brought up, they got a visage within 250 kills one time, 500 the next, will it be 1000 the next time? Probably. Because picking up the visage just LOWERED your drop potential. Say you have a much stronger Ring of Wealth ingrained into your Character, one with charges (per say). Picking up the Visage uses a charge, maybe 1000 charges. Maybe there are MILLIONS of charges, BILLIONS maybe, a drop of 5 coins taking one charge, visage taking 3.4M charges, and LIKE a Dragonfire Shield or Crystal Bow, or Crystal Shield, the rate degrades (The stats degrade) and you have less drop potential. Can you gain potential back? Sure, next time ya get a visage, leave it there. Are you gonna do that? Probably not. LSP works the same way, if you miss out on a drop, your LSP goes up. That is not to say someone with higher LSP WILL get the drop, just they have higher potential. So you might get 2 or 3 visages in a row, but the chance of getting another visage will be EXTREMELY low.

Imagine you place 5000 pieces of paper in a hat... On EVERY piece is written Dragon bones and Iron Bars, about 300 out of the 5000 say Dragon Bones, Iron Bars, and Dragon Legs. And on ONE single piece, it says Dragon Bones, Iron Bars, and Visage. Every time you kill a dragon a "hand" pulls a piece of paper, and once it is pulled out you receive the items written on that paper, it is then immediately put back in. The key is that THE "PAPER" IS IMMEDIATELY PUT BACK IN. This makes it so it is still a 1/5000 Chance. It doesn't mean that if you get the visage you have to wait 4999 kills for another, it is possible you could get two in a row. This is what makes common drops so common. Like Runite Limbs may be written on 4500 out of the 5000 pieces and because they are put back in every time you kill a dragon it will always remain a 4500 out of 5000 chance. (Note- Numbers were made up.) On a final note: It is a FACT that NO ONE knows the drop rate. It is physically impossible to calculate without the value of "x" (x being the number of Visages in the game). The only way anyone could figure it out is if they knew the exact amount of Visage in the game.

Well I have killed 3k plus black dragons and near the start after about 100 kills I obtained a clue scroll of which i was unable to start because various quests were needed. So 2900 black dragon kills later i do the numerous quests and get a rubbish reward from the clue scroll, but my very first kill back on black dragons dropped a clue scroll. After i completed taht clue scroll, I went off to kill Aviansies in the GWD (they drop lv3 clues as well) My 7th kill dropped a clue. Came back again, my 28th kill was a clue. My question is... perhaps did the numerous times where i may have been supposed to get a clue scroll from the black dragons, but was prevented from recieving one becasue I was holding one in my bank influence the rate at which i would recieve them later on? Possible connection with other drops?

Ok guys ill be honist its a hard topic and i do somewhat belive in drop rates but i belive in it like this. whenever the game needs one the dragon will drop one. The java or whatever can calculate that because its easy a human can do it... every time there is not 1000 vissages in the game than it will assighn a draon to drop one so like.. world75 dragon 1 drop vissage. than world 76 dragon 17 will drop vissage. Than over time of kills it will go back to. World 75 dragon 2 will drop a vissae. I belive it depends on how many are in the game. If you think about it.. its rare to get a vissage drop but.. its also rare that someone goes to pvp with a dfire shield and deciedes to die... chances are the other person wont get it if thereis a low ep%. so if you think about it this plan makes sence. as well do all the others...   But i do also belive in account luck... my friend swordmast150 had 3 vissage drops in a week. i play more than him and i kill faster... no drop no nothing my best drop in 30 range lvs is a rune limb.. litterly A rune limb. I took me 2735 ccyclopses to get a rune defender. Almost 3 weeks of nonstop killing.. went throgh over 4m in food. And same person came along got in it about 3 1/2 houres. If you understand what im saying its kinda just a compleat opinon deal whatever you belive along persnal experences is what you belive. (schuiteboer)

Serious doubts about KBD drop rate
I personally think it has something to do with the amount of money you get each drop. Example: All I get from a KBD (King Black Dragon for all you noobs that don't know what that means) is Dragon bones and a Black Dragon Hide well that is the lowest drop u can get from it so it tells the dropper that you got a worse drop and it takes that in to consideration so if you get enough crappy drop like 400 or 500 on KBD you have a better chance of getting a Visage. I don't know if this theory is true but it always seems to do that with me. Nixxanator

I've already changed the article to reflect the uncertainty, but there's absolutely no way we haven't gotten the drop in 132 kills if the drop rate is 1/32. It's like, a 1.5% chance. My two friends I kill the KBD with are 100% reliable, so it's not a question of their honesty, it's a question of the honesty of the people in the thread who gave their drop figures. As it is, at a 1/128 chance, there's only a ~35% chance that we haven't gotten one yet...So, there's that. Chissey 06:28, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

wait worse for visage 0.0

so far 0:3256 82-92 range

My runescape name is Eh Funk Duck. I killed kbd 4 times in a trip there and no visage. I went and killed 5 invy's of 24 black d'hides worth of black drags and no visage. I then killed 4 iron drags to get a visage. I believe it is totally a random drop. Unless I see evidence that isn'y bullshit (for example about how there's no coinflip program a computer can have, which, being not that skilled in programming, is easy to make.). I am however aiming for a Dragon full helm at miths at the moment. Apparently it's a much more likely chance despite it's superior wealth.

Im 25 ranged and i killed now 420 kbd's 0 vissage drops probly unlucky but i know more ppl who had that but 1/32 is not true otherwise evry 1 can make 20m in 2hours that would say i make 60M a day lol. my rs name is :And1db add me if u want;)

Every person has a different drop rate, so you cant go by how fast one person does it to yours. Some people can do it on there first try and others takes forever. so just simply keep trying and you'll eventually get your visage.

My personal opinion is, droprates are VERY bad measurements unless you count from one of that drop to the next time it's dropped, many times. So it's very difficult to do with rares like visage. Think about it this way, all these logs usually have the people who made them killing the monster many times beforehand, so their logs are never really *that* accurate. Basically, a person that gets visage on their 32nd Kbd kill on a log after not logging 300 beforehand would make the droprate seem low. Personally, i've killed around 400 to 500 since I started slaying, quite a few before that. So really, 1 out of 32 is a TERRIBLE estimate, i've never met someone who got a visage that fast off KBD ingame either.Lord Sean 8 20:30, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Man I killed 126 kbd's with my clan yesterday in a row. it took four trips and we never got a single vis drop. i think the drop rates of different monsters vary for different people. I might get d chains from kq alot, but my friend may be better at gettin gs shards from bandos. Just my best guess

Tip.it KBD Event today. Dispatched over 550 KBDs without a visage.

I also think that it vary from people to people. I killed 500 black dragons and got 2 visages, my friend has killed over 5,000 without any luck. It all maters on luck of the draw. If i get lucky today doesn't meen ill get lucky tomorrow. A few days after i got the visages i went to Bandos gwd with the friend mentioned eariler he got bandos chest plate i got nothing. We killed the boss 12 times. --- By nik1000111 Ok so those ratios 1/110 are absolutley not right, so i have decidet to get one of this visages and gues what, kbd doesnt drop soo often like 1/110 (1/32 not eaven close) me and my team have now killed abaut 500 and gotten none so this rates are no good it all depends on luck. Need a prooF? well many said there is 1/1500 at steel dragons and i have a little calucator that I press on evrytime i kill one steel and accoarding to my calculator ive killed 3451 steel dragon and yet ive gotten none visages (offcourse i got 6 d legs and orund 15 d skirts) but this ratios depend on luck of the one not on howmany you kill (cous nobudy counts your kills so ratios dont work). Its just abaut luck. My friend once got visage and i asked him how it felt when he got it, he said it was like I won a lottery, this is lottery some got it quick some may not even get it ever... ow and i know i have bad english so dont mind my mistakes and best of luck at getting them you might be the one to get it next  =)

- well if you code some ti basic on a alculator you should know there is a random int. command. which is the same as the dice system. and with rs private servers, they use this same random int procedure so i am guessing that its just the luck of the dice.

slayer?
some people on runescape forums claim that they got visage during slayer, maybe slayer ups the chances?

No, slayer does not give any more chances to a drop of a visage, Jagex has even said that themselves.

People who claim it does up your chances it is not true, I myself have gotten many slayer assignments, I have killed about 500 steels when I was assigned and around 5k without an assignment.

I have gotten 2 visage drops, none on a slayer assignment.

Think of it this way, imagine a huge wheel of fortune, then imagine it numbered 1-2500, and if you land on 999 you get a visage.

Now this does not mean that one in 2500 kills you will get a visage, it means that every kill you have a 1/2500 chance of getting it, you can kill millions of them and you will not be sure you will get one.

If you really want to get a visage, I suggest camping, you must range or mage to camp, just stay there for a few days all you do is just kill and kill, eventually you must get one.

this is fairly logical talking i support it 100% Johnjack922 09:19, 12 June 2008 (UTC

Ooo i got another visage 2 days ago :D

49 iron drags for slayer task, killed 49 no visage, then i thought, what the hell, lets make it 50, killed 50th 1 and got d legs and visage :D 11:06, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

^^^^^^ Not possible to get 2 drops in one kill, so stop giving false infomation

ok so ive killed maybe 1.2k iron drags and have gotten only rune limbs rba's and 1 d skirt which was my first kill first time here. all i want is a visage drop and my friend got one and i d didnt whn we killed the same so wtf is this

im lvl 46 and got a visage drop from a black after 34th kill so its possible

I killed hundreds, maybe over 1k, of KBD on my range tank account and never got a visage. I then went on my main account and got 2 in 2 KBD trips. If this tells us anything, it tells us that its completely down to luck. that is not ture. i've been killing em for about 2hrs and i havent got any visage

johnjack922 has the best answer so far. when people see ratios like 1:32 or 1:110, i doesnt mean ull get a drop one out of 110 kills. it means every kill, u have a 1:110 chance to get the drop, which is actually not very rare. id say the visage at regular black dragons is a chance of about 1:5000.

Iron dragon drop rates.
It's really simple if you think of it this way, when you kill ANY kind of monster, a spinner spins. say, 95% of the spinner is normal items, and the other 5% are rare items. If the spinner lands on the 5%, another spinner spins, seeing what item you get (the visage part being very small...) if you think about it that way, it's really obvious that drop rates are a total myth and you can get a visage on first kill...or go billions of dragons without one.

As of today I have killed around 1200 iron dragons with no luck of a visage. it might just be my bad luck or the drop rate is really really low. At around kill 860 i got legs, and 930 i got a skirt. Justakid 06:32, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I got a d plate legs on my first kill at steel dragons and visage on my 32nd drop, it really is a coincidence, or even luck..

Following on from the above comment, I have been hunting for about 30 hours. No visage, but I have had 4 sets of d legs. [Fantasy]

I killed a bronze dragon noooo clue what i was thinking but i almost died becuase i wasn't wearing a anti-d shield, i poisoned it and had to run behind a wall and wait for it to die, i got d legs, first kill so honestly its pure luck, i'm currentally at about 130 black dragon kills and no visage, no clue, nothing good,...

-I say it should be investigated...ive seen a few logs of people killing 2k+ black dragons and not getting one, but then someone gets a slayer task of 15 and gets one. its most likely coincedence and luck but I seriously think slayer does increase drop rate of certain valuable items.

(Jagex has even said slayer does not up your chances, why would it? Why would training woodcutting speed up your cutting if you were just cutting for money? Why would mining for exp not money up your chances of a gem? It wont.)

I would disagree with the idea that people are misrepresenting their drop rates for visages. It would seem to me that persons who got an early drop would be more motivated to post about their great luck. Meanwhile those with high drop rates would decline to post, as they might consider it to be 'nothing to talk about'. Teknikl 20:05, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Well anyone might post, but I think of it like this, some people play the lottery and never win a thing, while some might play it for the first time and win the whole thing, it just all comes down to being random, lucky, and motivated to spend time and wait patiently for it. i killed 45 iron dragons the other day got the visage in only 45 kills

if you all want serious honest to god truth about my luck at this visage... ive killed exactly 8923 black dragon over 2k iron/steel 300+ kbd 200+ mithril dragons and 200 or so wyverns and havent once gotten a visage drop. best drop ive gotten is 9 d legs and 4 skirts gone from 70 to 97 range hunting for that visage still no drop

Technically, it is impossible to calculate a true "drop rate" of anything. That would mean that you could go out and kill iron dragons, and get a visage every...say 100 kills. Every 100th kill would yeild a visage no matter what. But this is far from the case, I know a few people who have gotten a visage their 1st trip, and others(including me)who have killed many thousands, and have yet to get a visage, or even see anyone near us get one. Unfortunately, no matter how many numbers you crunch, it all boils down to the fact there is no drop rate.

Hey buddy i was just wonderin how do u expect us to "camp" for days when most people that try for visage drops don't already have 999mill to spend on enough bolts to last that long? seriously i can stay about 3 hours before i have to go back to the GE and cash in my stuff to buy more bolts. idk about you but i'd rather have a profitable way of taking this 1/2500 chance... I agree, I've had many slayer tasks for Iron Dragons, not one Visage, not even dragon legs. I guess I'm unlucky. I even talked to Ozwich or whatever his name is before I went, nothing! I HAVE KILLED OVER 1K OF EM AND NOTING THI

to have a chance of getting a visage drop you need to speak with the guy in edgeville to be able to revieve one as a drop!!!!

On my second kill on irons i got a Dragon plateskirt, then after i had left my friend got dragon platelegs on his 12th steel kill —67.220.4.110 (talk • contribs) forgot to sign this comment.

ha! not even close for me! i've killed exactly 4,689 iron drags, soled 50 kbd, 5k steel, 80 mith, and no vissy. my friend H E RO V7 got one first kill ever at iron drags! so lets see me and him combined is about....0.02% so it will take ages for any one withthere eyes lock on the 17.6m prize.-collman44444

iv been here at irons for 16 days now [still counting], killed 1,462 iron dragons, leveled my range 9 times, prayer 3 times, and hp once and have only gotten three drops (skirt,left half, and spear) and one good clue (robin hood). i was here one night and three guys all of which were lvl 130+ got a visage all within 20 min of each other and we all got there at the same time. its all random bs to me. --blobhole--

Oziach
Where is it proven that one needs to talk to Oziach to get a visage as a drop? Planeshifted 15:39, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

You do not need to talk to oziach, as i recieved a visage from regular black dragons whilst not having talked to him since dragon slayer quest (i'm now level 103, quite a while since that quest) it's a common misconception, and doesn't belong on the page


 * I'm editing the information out if nobody else dissents. Planeshifted 04:02, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

My friend and I went for a look at KBD and he got draconic vissage 1st drop waring ring of wealth so its based on luck

Blackdaddy5 09:20, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

i know that oziach isnt needed to get a visage because i killed 32 dragons with my pure so i never even did dragon slayer, and i got a visage. Also to be known a long password recovery q's and a bank pin increased my chances of getting drops, last week i killed prolly 600 tzhaar and got nothing, so i made recovery q's got a bank pin and today i kill 200 and got 4 capes 1 longsword and 1 sword and 25 rings (Really good run, Mabye not) ed12309

By 0verlord1841: Ed, there is no proof that long pass,recovs and a bank pin give better drops. Its like at barrows, where you get a dry streak of no items then you get like 2-3 in a row.

my sister got visage on killing from 61range to 87range on irons and steels... mainly steels ... i personaly havnt killed that much ... and never had dragon leg drop ... i hope that you are as lucky as me ... have fun dont try to hard

Hi! I heard other people saying how it's a larger chance for irons to drop a visage, that doesn't sound right. But they are a lower level and mabye it just seems quicker. So far i've killed well over 200 irons and 500 steels. My best drop from an iron was rune limbs and a rune battle axe from a steel. So i find it very curious that i havn't gotten dragon legs or a dragon plateskirt yet let alone a visage...

Dude yeci rocks,

There is no actual set drop rate of a D visage, it's just completely random at a lower percentage. If you kill 5000 dragons you still may not get a visage, It's all luck. You may get lucky and find yourself getting a visage in 10kills. A 7 X 000

i just got d legs in about 100th kill it realy is all just luck most guys kill 860 drags to get d legs

Dragon drops
I found it easy to get a Dv From an iron dragon, tell me what dragon you killed to get one and how many times did you have to kill it. Iron Dragon/7 kills Yefpatterson 04:57, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, I've been killing Iron and Steel dragons for freaking long. My last trips included more then 100 dragon kills, the best thing I got was dragon legs about 4 months ago. What am I doing wrong? And what about 'I found it easy to kill'? You know.. isn't it just about luck? Everscream 13:59, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
 * It's random. 12:46, 27 October 2008 (UTC)


 * The visage is very rare. I have killed over 5000 iron/steel dragons (over 50 slayer tasks) and I have got several dragon helms, legs and skirts, but not one visage. You have to be very lucky to get one. 13:13, 27 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I have killed over 3,919 black dragons as of 2/11/09, and have received about 22m from them, from Dragon shield left half, d meds, etc., but i have yet to receive a visage. If i am not mistaken from what i have heard black dragons do drop visages.  My point is that a visage is up to your luck, and just your luck, right place, right time!!!

their pin number with recovery questions set to have more luck/better percentages. It seems posible because i have had the same recovery questions for years and the same bank pin, plus i have 3 black marks against rule 1. i have never received a single dragon item or item worth more than 40k(best drop is rune battle axe)
 * I have killed several hundred steel dragons in my time playing runescape. After reading this report i infered that runescape does not simply randomize the drop, but the staff might have programmed people with less black marks and/or


 * it might also be posible u build up luck from not killing anything, because after training skills for several month i decided to do a clue scroll that has bin sitting in my bank several months from steel dragons, after completeing it i got 2 robin hats 1 rune platelegs and 11 purple sweets.


 * Maybe getting a Visage is a lot like the PVP EP%, the more you kill or the harder they are to kill decides your percentage, and at around 100% you either get something good (like platelegs, plateskirt) or you get a visage. Just a theory though.

Store Price
I highly doubt any store trader would pay 25,000,000 for this, In actual fact, I'm pretty certain it's far less than that, can anybody confirm? - and if 25m is being paid, that's more than they're selling for, in the grand exchange!
 * It's not what they buy for, it's what they sell for. That is always more than the GE price. Drag nmn   talk cont  18:08, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Is that for everything? Empty vials are 3 gp, but sell for 72 in grand exchange.

I am not sure if this is how you do this but I just recently got one and it sells for 300,000 coins at the store.

Well ive been killing iron dragons and black dragons and KBD ALot probaly over 4000kills total and none

i think that the lower your lvl the higher the chance of drop, i was a lvl 78 when i ranged my eleventh black dragon, now i'm 112 and i've killed over 2000. No luck.
 * It's random, completely random. There is no luck or modifiers when it comes to choosing a random line of code. However unlikely, because it's completely random, somebody could get a drop twice in a row. 19:36, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Ok >.< Sorry for writing over your page but no one will look at this anyways soo i know how the drop rate goes... the more wealthier you are the better items you get.. For Example: imagine you killing a black drag with black d hide on while ranging. then some dude comes up and kills one with full bando's on The chances of you getting a better drop will sky rocket. so you get better items you get better drops

The rise in drop potential based on the items you're wearing only occurs in PVP Worlds while fighting other players. Drop potential has no effect while fighting monsters. Refer to the first paragraph of the Iron Dragon Drop Rates section of this page. That is the truth, from Jagex's own mouth... (Sir Turlook)

The prices for some itmes like vissage or other rare member things are retarted in genral store. I know that some itms like a god sword blade is 800gp its more like this because well think of it this way... the peole of runescape have no idea what it is or how powerfull it is so thay pay a low price. Thatsy rune or dragon things like that stuff that thay have "herd of" are higher prices cause thay have herd about them. I know this sonds dum but basicly the rare itmes sell low prices in shop.

Santa is like 1k P hats are like 10k you get the point.... (schuiteboer)

luck is it.
One day, i got steel dragons for a slayer task, my first steel dragon someone attacked it with magic before i could, so i killed an iron while i waited for the steel to respawn. MY FIRST IRON KILL WAS A VISAGE! People kill many of these and never see a visage, i have talked to oziach, but the chance of getting one on my very first kill is extreme luck. I would say its either random, or im just very lucky, or a combonation of the two.

draconic visage at the ge is about 17m give or take the min and max. if u sold to a store itd be about 1/3 of that price, but itd be the same if u bought from the store.

Black dragon drop log
I decided to make a drop log killing 1k black dragon. I am around 1/4 there. User:Powers38/Drop log/Black dragon. 12:46, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

The truth about ring of wealth
Does ring of wealth help? --Gragon 126 20:55, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

"The Draconic visage is a "bonus" drop. This means that it is included in a dragon's main drop, and it is never the main drop itself. As such, it is believed that the visage is not affected by the Ring of wealth."

Quoted from the article Axearmour1 22:35, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

actually ring of wealth does help to get a visage. i wear one all the time. it does help


 * How can you be so sure? Unless you have gotten over 100 visages with 1k black/kbd/iron/steel dragon while wearing ring of wealth and then obtained 20 visages with the same amount of monsters killed, but without ring of wealth. 14:05, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

the ring of wealth has nothing to do with how often you get a visage. in fact, the wealth has, in many tests, been shown to increase the chance of a coin drop, not an item drop.

jagex have already said that the ring of wealth does not affect ypu visage chance but can increase chances of d legs/skirt but the ring will increase chance of a d chain from dust devils/kalphite queen

smithing xp
I noticed the page lacks amount of experience given to Smithing when one attaches a visage to an antifire shield. Could someone find that out and add that info to the page? It seems relevant. :P --nekobawt 19:04, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Done! 19:15, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Its 2k xp.

Okay so I've killed 2632 Iron dragons and a few steels.(Calc'd from the prayer EXP from the bones.) And I've got no drops worth over 100K. While my friend got a Vissage on second drop ever off an iron dragon. So I guess the first kills are the luckiest like the guy said.

Thats is not true.... on my first trip i went and killed 20 iron drags and 4 steels drags and i got only 45k worth of stuff from them..... and it doesnt seem the lower lvl you are the better chance of gettin drop... cuz im lvl 83 and its also not tru that the better the stuff the better the drop cuz i was wielding abyssal whip with full proselyte - Red

A little excerpt from Guthix Ponders issue 24 (RS Knowledge Base)....

I see that many people in this world hath conflicting and contrary ideas as to how the ring of wealth may help them. Allow me to set this straight once and for all.

1) If thou consider the possessions of an enemy to be like a roulette wheel, then the 'rare' items so coveted by players are located on a second roulette wheel, that will only be spun shouldst thou roll a specific number on the first wheel. The ring of wealth affects not the number which thou may achieve upon the first wheel, but should thou gain the precise number to allow thee access to the second, the ring will make thy chances of gaining an object on that second roulette wheel all the greater. My analogy is flawed, for death is not like roulette, but I hope that thou see the truth within this.

2) Life hath no schedule to follow, for it is an ever evolving process, and the nature of balance decrees that things occur when they must occur. However, all events hath their patterns, and by scrutinising that which hath occurred before thou may see the patterns that run through things, and mayhaps predict when new events might be brought about upon this world...

So ROW increase your chance of a good rare drop... say like Visage =)

I'm led to a totally different theory
I have played runescape for a long time. I am led to believe that the Drop System works much like the Grand Exchange - global. Say the drop rate is 1/1000 for an item, then in Runescape the item is dropped every 1/1000. No luck. However - it is every 1000 kills of that monster the item is dropped - so assuming 999 of these monsters have been killed, the 1000th kill will be the rare drop. Whoever gets the drop is the lucky person who gets the 1000th kill. Thats just my conspiracy >.<


 * that makes soo much since because the price for a dragon visage almost doent change. that means you would have to have a system like this one to keep the price the same. same thing also goes for the god swords and stuff.--->fire god980<---


 * In my humble opinion, when a drop rate of a certain item is 1/1000, it means that after each kill you have a 1/1000 chance of getting the item. It does not mean that you will get the item every 1000 kills. 21:59, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

that is my thought exactly. you hear of people getting it on there 100th drop and some after 12k kills no drop. thus that leads me to conclude that it is globe killings that cause the drop. another point is its a bonus drop. so what if it means that every 1000th kill in the world the add a visage to it? eandm7

That would make it impossible to get a rare drop twice within a short period of time, which I'm fairly certain is not the case. 74.176.209.173 18:25, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Here's something for all of you, is dragon slayer needed to get a visage? I have never heard of someone getting it without completing the quest so is this in fact a truth or myth?

It is a myth, I have gotten visage on my char when i was 1 def pure and had 76 range. Camped them from 60-76 range and got many d legs and skirts and finally a visage, so no need to do dragon slayer to get a drop. Now im back camping them untill i get another visage even if i have to go all the way to 99 range :)- Znake_Zlavik

I don't think your theory is correct, Because I've gotten a visage, and a friend has gotten a visage when we were in the evil chicken's lair, in the same minute. 1000 black dragons could not have been killed in less than a minute. Claw B 21:16, 23 May 2009 (UTC))

A couple friends went to KBD and got visage on second kill...That would make their drop rate 1/2 which is complete BS so it has to be totally random.
 * No, it wouldn't. To even think of calculating a drop rate you would have to get a minimum of 2 visages; the more the better. 23:49, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Okay throwing this out here, totally doesn't make sense but what if it was a visage drop, but it was only every 1,000,000 dragon kills. What I mean by this is like what was said at the top of this header, but with a twist: Say every time you kill (let's say for example) a black dragon, a number adds up to the system, +1. now that number goes onwards and adds up to a larger, already formed pile called "Black Dragon Visage drop" now all over runescape, in it's 170+ worlds, everytime someone kills a Black Dragon that numbers adds to the pile, and on the 1,000,000 kill, whoever got the kill would recieve the visage, after that, the pile resets back to 0. Could explain when someone gets the visage first try, because all over runescape they were the person who killed the 1,000,000 Black Dragon. but that just sounds ridiculous even to me.

another point of view.
I have played RS since 2001. I have looked through scripting engines involved with the game and every other thing you can imagine. Drop rates ARE COMPLETELY RANDOM. They have nothing to do with the account, or any other factors. Let's start with an example from steels / irons. I went there on a range / mage hybrid of mine, killed over 1k irons and got absolutely nothing. was out of pots on a trip and decided to kill a fw steels. killed 5 steels, got a visage, a legs, and a skirt. KBD: i have been to kbd many times on many accounts. I have gotten a total of 8 visages there, and 4 KBD heads. two of the visages were from one team trip with lootshare, and most were solo.

Imagine a spinner, such as used for the game Twister. every possible drop from a monster is on a wheel, not counting outside drops. bones and hides are 100% drops at black dragons, they are not on a wheel. charms are on their own wheel. there is a spot on the wheel for nothing, and varying sized spots for the 4 basic color charms. the wheel with outside drops has a very very small spot of a visage, and the rest of the wheel is nothing. the drops wheel has every drop possible on it, with more common drops having larger spots. It is possible to get infinitely many visages in a rrow, although extremely unlikely. each time you kill a dragon, all the wheels spin, wherever the charms one lands, you get that. you could get any drop any number of times in a row, just as in Twisterm you could get, for instance, left hand green, every turn you play.

nope
Note: They also got kbd heads JUST before visage, so if you get kbd heads, hang in there for one more kill, it'll be worth it.

nope thats not true ive goten 2 kbd heads, i from loot share other solod next kill no visage.. thats not how it works

Just putting this out there.

The Draconic visage is a "bonus" drop. This means that it is included in a dragon's main drop, and it is never the main drop itself, meaning it can be dropped as well as another item, like dragon platelegs. As such, it is believed, and has been confirmed by Jagex, that the visage is NOT affected by the Ring of wealth.

13:06, 17 June 2009 (UTC)174.112.116.132 13:06, 17 June 2009 (UTC)italiano3362


 * Yes, it says so on the article page. 13:29, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

What If?
Just throwing this idea out there (because everything else has pretty much been said) What if there are no "random" drops. Like..and i might sound dumb by saying this but...what if there was something that decided the time when one would drop, like its never a random drop. kind like if the number of..say, d skirts started to diminish...whats saying that they couldnt do something to the extent of say at this time, this place, this will drop. and yes i know that it would be impossible because 1. no one could be able to moniter all of the item populations.; 2. you couldnt really mid way write it into the game code. but idk just kinda wondering what u guys thought....or even if anyone uses this anymore

Draconic Visage
Ok, I think that getting a visage is purely luck. I have killed an estimated 6.5k irons and steels, having gone from 69-89 range just at metals. I have gotten about 3 d legs, and 2 skirts, and 1 visage. I got the visage at 85 range, so it took me about 4.5k kills to get one. I think it's purely luck and I'm just one unlucky person. I agree with the wheel idea of drops.

~Hawkman8706

my theory on drops!
ok like said above there are spinners that spin. but there isnt just one there is 3 of them. 1 is a charm drop spinner, the other is a common drop spinner, and the last is a rare drop spinner. ok now when u kill the monster the charm and common drop spinners spin. what ever spot the spinners land on is wat u get, but on the common drop spinner there is a very small spot that takes u to the rare drop spinner. so when u hit that spot the rarte drop spinner spins. on the rare drop spinner would be every rare drops that the monster can drop. so that is how it works in my opinion.

--Bigzekeman 16:16, 30 June 2009 (UTC)bigzekeman--Bigzekeman 16:16, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

The Rare Drops
I have heard multiple stories about how people have killed thousands of dragon and never gotten a visage drop. But I have a question to them, did they kill those "thousands" of dragons all at once or did they take several trips just killing, say, 100 each time? I have a theory about the drop system that plays off of what a lot here have already said.

The first main part of my theory is the "spinner" or roulette theory of drops. Jagex posted an article in the Postbag from the Hedge (I think) from Guthix and it was posted a while ago. In this article it described how RS's drops worked. Guthix explained it as 2 roulette wheels, the first being common drops, and the second being rare drops. When a monster spawns the first common roulette wheel spins, and whatever it lands on is the drop. BUT there is a small chance (probably a 5-10% chance) that it can land on the "rare" drop portion of the wheel. When it hits rare portion of the wheel, the rare wheel spins. On this rare wheel are all of the rarer items (Duh...) including items such as dragon drops, visages, and other high value items. This is where the ring of wealth comes into play. Because also on this rare item wheel there is (probably) a 50% or higher chance of getting "nothing". The ring of wealth diminishes that chance of getting nothing by 15% (or raises the chances of the rares by 15% if you want to think of it like that). And all of this was explained by Jagex. Now onto the second critical part of my theory.

The second part of my theory is the most unbelievable but I and all of my friends on RS believe in it. The second part of this theory is the drop streaks. This part of my theory is that if you (or anyone around you) is getting good drops, stay in that world because of the rare streaks. I have heard (and believe) that this rare roulette wheel must go through all of the drops it has (including all rare items) before can reset and give drops it has already given. So it must give out every item it can (including coins, rune javs, clues, darts, dragon legs, visages, and nothing) before it can reset itself and drop the items it has already dropped again (thus one full cycle). So the jist of what I am says is that if you just got dragon legs, keep killing the dragons, because you could have luckily landed on a rare item spot, or you could have just started a rare item streak. But note, this roulette wheel applies to all of the same monster throughout the entire RS world (EX: all black dragons in world 60). So some notes to take out of this: 1. If you recieve a rare item drop, stay in the world and kill more. 2. If you hop into a world and the drops have been crappy, it is your choice to stay or go, because the cycle could have just reset, or nearing the end and about to go on a rare streak. 3. If you hop into a world and the drops are good, stay because hopefully you joined right in a rare streak.

Here is a testimonial about how this theory works: Right after the release of the visage, one of my friends (a now level 136) with a group of his friends went down to Brimhaven and started killing irons. It was only a few kills in that my friend got his first visage, he left and sold it. A few hours later (in the same world) the friends that he was with were still killing dragons and asked him to come back down because they were getting good drops. He went back to Brimhaven and within 30 kills received another visage drop. The strange part is is that while he was gone, no one (until that streak right when he came back) got any good drops. Some may call this luck but all I see is that with all of the masses of people who were killing metal dragons that day (in all of the worlds) the roulette wheel was going through multiple cycles and my friend just happened to be there when it hit the peak of the cycle.

I personally have killed around 500-750 dragons and no visages. When I go kill metals I usually kill 60-100 dragons because thats all I can bring for supplies. I have no visages, but a few d legs drops and multiple smaller drops. One the last trip I made (while posting this) I had just finished my slayer task when I got a d spear. Interested I stayed and killed another 20 irons. Within the next 20 drops I got a rba, 5 rune limbs, a d med, a clue, and finally another set of d legs. Then I ran out of supplies (Dammit) and had to telly back. But there was the beginning of a rare streak.

I hope this article will help clear some people thoughts of how the drop system works.

wouldi get it?
this guys tole my black drag kill and he got a visage he showed it to me the lil bitch lol anyways, would i have gotten it?

Chances are, no. The fact is no one knows how the system works. However, it is almost certain that drops are determined as the monster dies. Many people think monsters are assigned items when they are spawned. But in the programming world, random actions (random actions are actions when the computer decides what occurs next) are triggered at the same time the action occurs. In other words, the computer does NOT say in advance, "This dragon will drop a Visage when it dies". Instead, it says, "The dragon has dropped to 0 HP, drop a Visage now". So, you could literally of gone back in time and killed that dragon, but the computer randomizes it so you may not have gotten it. However, it is possible you could have gotten one. Everyone in the game has the same chan

Okay, I feel that the only, and reasonable choice is that the chance for rare drops such as the visage is completely regarded by luck. There more then likely is no chance percentage because of it being complete luck. I went to black dragons searching for a visage, to my astonishment i got one on my about 60th kill. After that, i sold it,but then after thinking i was getting bored of runescape I put the cash in a drop party. So i got back on, was mad i had no money so i went for another visage. So far i have killed over 1k of them and nothing. That pretty much proves the thoery wrong about being a chance to get it. it is complete luck. thats it..it is randomized

Well, apparently what you feel is not what other people feel. 11:01, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

I believe you're misunderstanding the chance theory - it is not "every xth dragon will drop a visage", it is "when you kill a dragon there is a 1 in x chance of getting the visage" - this theoretically means that you could get a visage on every kill, just as much as you may never get a visage (but if you kill ∞ dragons you will get a visage, but of course that can't happen). Also, I suspect it is much easier to program a chance system than a completely random luck system. 14:44, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

its all based on drop rates.. thats why there is ring of wealth; the ring of wealth does not affect bonus drops which = the draconic visage and cluescrolls.

okay what you have to do in situations like this is go with what jagex has told you in the past, when explaining the ring of wealth they said a first ring spins and if it lands on a rare a second ring spins, this means that they use at least 2 random number generators which means the 2bill number that java is limited to would be exponentially higher, secondly there is NO "drop rate" in runescape you're using the wrong words, there is a drop probability which means the chance you have of getting a visage at the time of that drop. it doesn't matter how many other people have killed as it doesn't affect you personally nothing has an effect on this its a computer program and it is in fact pure luck as there is no way to control it, even if you knew what jagex's formulas were and knew everything you possibly could you wouldn't be able to control when you get a visage drop, more likely you'd be able to accurately predict when you would get one. but the point is you can make as many drop tables as you want. you can use all the math you want, you won't be able to accurately predict when a visage will drop, its too rare and too random, the only way to get one is to go and kill dragons, sometimes for weeks on end, so good luck

okay what you have to do in situations like this is go with what jagex has told you in the past, when explaining the ring of wealth they said a first ring spins and if it lands on a rare a second ring spins, this means that they use at least 2 random number generators which means the 2bill number that java is limited to would be exponentially higher, secondly there is NO "drop rate" in runescape you're using the wrong words, there is a drop probability which means the chance you have of getting a visage at the time of that drop. it doesn't matter how many other people have killed as it doesn't affect you personally nothing has an effect on this its a computer program and it is in fact pure luck as there is no way to control it, even if you knew what jagex's formulas were and knew everything you possibly could you wouldn't be able to control when you get a visage drop, more likely you'd be able to accurately predict when you would get one. but the point is you can make as many drop tables as you want. you can use all the math you want, you won't be able to accurately predict when a visage will drop, its too rare and too random, the only way to get one is to go and kill dragons, sometimes for weeks on end, so good luck

so basically the chances of getting a visage has the chance of anywhere between 1 in 2 to 1 in 2,000,000,000 to the 2 billionth power, i'm sure jagex doesn't use numbers that large but thats the idea, they don't want you to be able to guess, secondly knowing the drop probability will not help you get a visage all it will do is tell you if you were lucky or unlucky while you were hunting for a visage

My Idea
First of all I'd like to ask whether or not the kill a steel dragon, drop 100k, kill another steel dragon and you get a visage work, because that just sounds like complete bull.

Okay, speaking of that almost incompetent remark on how that could ever work, my idea is:

what if it works like ep-ing?

I figure it could be a lot like the pvp world ep-ing thing. Sit in a hot zone for half an hour with 75k and you go up 25%, could this be it? I've had my friend have 8% ep and get a 750k drop (a possible explanation to people getting a visage on their 2nd or 3rd kill). So I wonder if I sit at iron drags and risk like 25mil and keep killing for half an hour, does the % add up and possibly lead to the drop?

just a thought <{[Dave]}>


 * Dropping 100k there is most likely fake. I don't think you need to risk a certain amount to get EP and drop visage. Maybe just keep killing and get lucky :) 09:44, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Divine help? visage
This might sound silly to some people butI have gotten a visage from black dragons in traverly dungeon and it took only 140 kills. Now the night before i got i prayed that I would get a visage drop, i was extremely lucky only 140 kills. Also the day i got the visage my friend asked me "Did you get a visage yet noob?'" i was like "not yet" then he says "then get one noob"! so after like 6 kills i get a visage! I imediately sell it then buy dragon claws (unfortunately i lost them). Last week me and my friend were talking about rare items blk drags dropped whatever item we talked about one of us got it as a drop from drag we talked about visage but nothing =/ ive killed about 1.5k drags and no visage but tonnes of clues.

KBD
I Programmed a counter for KBD's and so far, I've broken 1400 of them. However i got one visage back at exactly 1k irons. Perhaps its lucky rolls maybe.

There is no such thing as luck on a game rate eprcentage drop absed on as you call it "the wheel". they way it works is no certain person can have luck becuase a computer programe that picks out adds up divdes umltiplys and then gives that dragon a vis drop cannot possibly make your account luckey ortherwise it would be like giving somebody who is gonna skill all the time power to get what they want. The wheel works on a set based amount of number it then multiply's that number by the amount of people killing that kind of dragon divides it by amount killed every say 5 minutes divdes that amount and whoever kills that number will get vis it would slowly build up till it becomes as often as new vis in a dragon every minute and so people do not realise because this works for a set amount of worlds (say 5) in which case only on person killing say kbd will get it in a clan drop and one eprson soloing will get as a item drop also one ls clan will get so that 2 vis has been reieved and one or more split completely dependent on how long and how many killed so as percentage cannot drop under say 5% but it can rise if worlds are very active so drop is had every 30seconds or faster then as the people slowly stop killing drop rate becomes lower because less people can receive the drop. This is just a theory it cannot be completely proven but im sure it is full proof.

--86.42.207.82 23:47, 21 August 2009 (UTC)Spit--86.42.207.82 23:47, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Irons? Steels? Blacks?
Umm... well the subject line pretty much says it all, what type of dragon should i kill? I have 58 Defence (Fail), 75 Magic, 65 Attack, 65 Strength, and 51 Prayer. Mythomagic5 00:15, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

world view
i was just wondering......it was probably about my fourth trip to black dragons,(this was back when i very first started fighting them), when i got my first draconic visage. like all people i was jumping out of my seat and showing everyone what i had obtained, then further sold it and got my bandos chestplate. now, on to my question- does anyone think there is a possibility that there is a certain world that a certan player must be in to obtain a draconic visage.....?

No, why would there be? 09:24, September 2, 2009 (UTC)

I was killing steel/iron dragons with my friend. A mage came without a ROW. The mage's second kill of all time at metal dragons got him a visage. He showed it to us. The dragon that dropped it was a steel.

IT'S STUPID TO EVEN TRY!
if you kill dragons in the hopes of getting a visage, just give it up. you won't get one. you have to have the luck of a god to get a damn visage. i spent every last gp i had to go to iron and steel drags. killed 14,203 of them.. and yes.. i counted :l but then i go to log in.. and guess what. a new update. this causes the game to go slow during this time.. very slow. and guess where i'm at when the screen finally pops up.. c'mon.. take a guess.. LUMBRIGE!!!!!!! it's stupid.. so this caused my to quit the game.. i mean whats the point? i'm all combat so my skill stats suck so it's nearly impossible to make money.. oh and if your wondering how much i lost try full armadyl and 90k rune bolts.. oh and the 6 d legs, and 4 d skirts i had in inventory.. and this all happened just this morning.. :) --209.60.36.2 10:20, September 3, 2009 (UTC)FRESH ECHO--209.60.36.2 10:20, September 3, 2009 (UTC)

Generator clear up + how the drops appear
Yes, as we all do know so well, visage is probably one of THE RAREST drops ever placed in the game. As we do know, drops are "random" in the sense that yes, a computer cannot randomize numbers. What a computer does is it has a select set of numbers it places within any possible order, in this case let us all assume (as an example not as a real number) that visage is a 1::1200 drop chance. What people know from this is computers take percentages. They use this percentage on how lucky, to our vocabulary, that this number will appear. However they make this mistake on how many time a drop set (the random numbers) can be reset.

In a computer, you can tell it the number range for a visage. Since we are assuming for example a 1::1200 chance, there is exactly 1::1200 numbers (1,2,3...). BUT a computer can be told to eliminate one number every "kill" so that your chances improve. HOWEVER! It may also be told (assuming Jagex does so but not necessarily) to have a computer reset the randomized order, meaning reorganize the 1::1200 numbers, every possibly 100 kills, or 200, or if ever so vile, 1199 kills.

Another possible way of setting a computer to randomize is to give it a go at telling it to reset every kill. People, although I highly doubt it is true and knowing have never been proven to me, say that when a monster drops some sort of gem, usually sapphire or emerald but includes ruby and diamond, the drops are claimed reset. I have never read a post nor ever understood how this could be proven ingame but...I wont say impossible.

Also to point out, if you have ever taken a calculus class or have any knowledge of how limits work on a graph, that may as well lead to how a visage drop works. Some number c is placed in between to high or low numbers in the graph. Using the IVT test (if you don't know then don't read) on the computer will help prove there is some number c in f(x-1) < f(c) < f(x+1) (I do not know how to write subscripts on this wiki :\ ). Meaning when the limit of f(x)=f(c), then you will get your visage, although this explanation is more of a guess.

--Syp 19:29, September 5, 2009 (UTC)

My views on the subject
Okay, we all know that getting a visage requires much luck, etc, etc. To me, Jagex has each monster drop as percentages, like, visage is maybe 00.01%. This doesn't mean that if you kill 10000 monsters, you will definitely get a visage. It's like flipping a coin, what are the chances that you get tails? 1/2. Suppose you flip a coin and you get heads. This does not mean in ANY way that the next flip must be tails because one out of every 2 flips is tails. All this means is that, for each instance, the chances of getting tails is 50%. The same goes for getting a visage. Each kill, there's that 00.01% chance that you'll get one. This chance doesn't ever increase, it's just that, with enough kills, maybe you'll happen to strike lucky and get that tiny percentage.

That said, good hunting!

Mith's and Visage
Honestly, the whole drop rate theroy is a bunch of FUBAR. I've killed way over 1k mith drags just for sport and the best thing i've gotten from them was their rune items. I've solo'ed KBD for well over a month and never got anything. I did near 100 dragons (mith/kbd) a day and never got anything. I have 2 KBD heads to show how long i've spent there. NEVER GOT A VISAGE. I've killed over 15k lower metal dragons. 2 D legs, one skirt. Either Jagex doesn't like me or the whole drop thing is completely screwed up.


 * Extracts from RuneScape Content Q&A Answers:


 * This confirms that
 * Drop rates are constant, 1/x style numbers.
 * 'Account luck' is a myth.
 * This should answer and and all queries/statements/whatever on this page. 22:51, September 11, 2009 (UTC)