Talk:Squeal of Fortune/Archive 4

my email to the U.K. Gambling Commission and there response.
the email I sent: Greetings U.K. Gambling Commission, It has recently come to my attention and the attention of 195 million online players that the popular online game "Runescape" owned by Jagex Ltd, a U.K. based company, has implemented a controversial method of gambling known has the "Squeal of Fortune" which under U.K. legislation is classified as an instance of illegal gambling. Jagex Ltd. is a massive company which employs over 500 workers and whose popular game spans over 100 countries. Their game is a fantasy based role playing game, where the player assumes a virtual avatar which interacts with other players and the game environment. The most disturbing part of this gambling revelation in which Jagex has foolishly decided to partake in is the fact that over half of the game's audience is under 18. This means that upwards of one hundred million players have access to the "Squeal of Fortune". The Squeal of Fortune is an in-game wheel of fortune esque type of game, with rewards ranging from earning in-game skills to earning in-game currency. One of the methods of playing the game involves buying spins with real money. The spins' costs range from 3 GBP for 10 spins to 14 GBP for 75 spins. I am based in the United States where prices are slightly different, but these amounts should hold true. Jagex's reasoning for stating that this in-game wheel is not gambling lies in their sole belief that a prize is won every time. However, there is a shocking revelation to this. The prizes on the wheel range from an extremely miniscule amount of in-game currency that most players would disregard to prizes worth 200 GBP or more on the Runescape "black markets" where items are sold for real cash. The odds of winning a large prize are so miniscule that it can be said that they won't be won by the average player playing this mini-game. The odds have been speculated to be around 1/850 - 1/1000. Therefore, to win a "good" prize, a player must hand over hundreds of dollars, GBP, or whatever currency they are using to Jagex. To counter this, Jagex claims that spins can be earned in game by killing monsters or participating in skills. This is a poor argument however, since the option of buying spins with real money still exists. To further the fact that this wheel is illegal, it is important to look at England's Gambling Act. Section 6(4) of the (UK) Gambling Act 2005 provides that the chance of losing is not a relevant consideration in the definition of a game of chance (which is one component of the definition of gambling and as such is licensable conduct within the UK). If you pay money for the chance to win a prize which has an intrinsic value, it is considered to be gambling under the U.K. legislation. [link to the legislation was here] I hope that the Gambling Commission thoroughly reads my argument and attempts to disband this illegal practice which Jagex has installed into their game Runescape. For further reading, the Gambling Commission may wish to look at the following links dealing with this subject. http://services.runescape.com/m=forum/forums.ws?15,16,384,63658749 http://services.runescape.com/m=forum/forums.ws?15,16,901,63658709

there response:

Dear Sir Thank you your recent email concerning the ‘Squeal of Fortune’ game available on RuneScape. We very much value the time you have taken to bring this matter to our attention and thank you for your patience while we have investigated. Under the Gambling Act 2005 this game would only be defined as gaming or a game of chance (and therefore has to comply with the relevant legislation set out in the Act) if there is a prize of money or money’s worth. Money’s worth is the fair or full equivalent of the money that is paid and includes: payment in-kind, vouchers, goods, donated items, goody-bags or other items which have an intrinsic value. In the case of RuneScape it appears that there are no prizes of money or money’s worth and therefore the game is outside the scope of the Commission’s regulation. If a player wins at a game, they win virtual items (although if they won RuneScape currency the same principle applies). This cannot be exchanged for real world money or physical prizes through RuneScape. The Commission understands that it is against RuneScape’s terms and conditions to convert the game money into real money and if it is identified that a player has done so they will have their account closed. Although RuneScape is outside of our regulatory authority we recognise that you have concerns over the way that the game is being marketed. Our advice is that you take this up with the operator, Jagex Ltd in the first instance. Their address is Jagex Ltd. St. John's Innovation Centre Cowley Road Cambridge CB4 0WS United Kingdom Or you can email them at [mailto:parents@jagex.com parents@jagex.com] If you believe that their advertising is unfairly targeting young people then you can complain to The Advertising Standards Authority who is responsible for all advertising in the UK. Yours sincerely Hayley Rogers Licensing Administrator GAMBLING COMMISSION Victoria Square House Victoria Square Birmingham B2 4BP Tel: 0121 230 6666 Fax: 0121 230 6720 Further information about the Gambling Commission is available on the Gambling Commission website atwww.gamblingcommission.gov.uk

so it looks like nothing will happen, al least not in the UK.

Heavyoak 11:12, April 27, 2012 (UTC)


 * So this just echo's what I have been saying. ITS NOT GAMBLING. end of story I think. Given that this is a UK company, I cant see them being tried by any other jursidiction. FWIW, I have dealt with the Gambling Commission on numerous occassions relating to my business, which i kind of why I knew they would take this line. BasementJaxx 18:55, April 27, 2012 (UTC)
 * I've seen several people report that they sent a related message and got that exact message back, pretty much verbatim. Apparently their stance is as firm as Jagex's. 98.249.218.100 03:38, May 20, 2012 (UTC)

Alignment Issue in Rewards Section
There are some serious alignment issues in the rewards section of the page that I was unable to fix. All tables appear to be down a heading rather in their respective places. Also the Miscellaneous rewards table has run off into the Financial Security section.

I attempted to fix it with no avail. Could someone else please attempt. MrLixivium 01:14, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing out the organization issues on the talk page. It turned out to be some old vandalism that somehow escaped our watchful eyes, and has since been reverted. Cheers, Hofmic Talk 01:21, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

The thread is baaaack
Mod Timbo has stickied a new thread in the Existing content forums about the squeal of fortune at:

http://services.runescape.com/m=forum/c=VFXEvCYIDis/forums.ws?74,75,334,63710606

Shall we mention this in the article, maybe add a link to the thread in the citations, follow the thread to see how long before the RS Gestapo lock it? 218.102.159.243 15:53, May 1, 2012 (UTC)

Buying spins
In the article is written that the spins that are bought expires after 6 months, but that is not true. It is only a one time spending. Wich 'person' wrote that? I though that it was true and bought 20 spins+5(8 euro's). But it seems that it's only for 1 day, and not 6 months.. Or is it true? I kindly ask for the editor who wrote that to provide me a source. Comadant 10:46, May 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * Update:SoF Extra Spins - FAQ 17:55, May 13, 2012 (UTC)

Prizes
Why are there so many prizes listed that you cannot actually get anymore? From just a quick glance down the list I noticed 10k,100k,uncut onyx, onyx, bucket, fishing bait and cabbage which are not attainable prizes anymore yet still on the list as attainable

Random item winning
Is it true that the insant you press the spin button a random piece of loot is selected for u to win before the wheel stops spinning or is that just vandalism?

, 12:44, May 13, 2012 (UTC)anzu68
 * When the button is pressed your loot is selected. The animation of the wheel stopping is irrelevant (as is the order of the items on the bottom). Pressing the button a second time will just skip the animation, and since your loot was chosen on the first press it changes nothing. 17:53, May 13, 2012 (UTC)

Wheel of Fortune Results (May 30th, 2012)
Thought you folks might want a spin report from the ones I just bought in prep for getting the Dragon Ceremonial armor. These results include a base of 135 spins, plus whatever ones I won.

XP Lamps

Other Swag: