Talk:Gods/Archive 3

God Allignments
With the new God emmisaries there has been more a lot more released about the gods, but i think a lot of people are getting confused about titles though, for example Seren's emissary calls her a god of peace and growth, not the goddess of peace and growth, Zaros' emissary says he is a master of fate, not the god of fate. - UNSIGNED: 120.145.206.245


 * The Emissary were sent by their gods to get people to side with them. Their alignment is what the Emissary says. Seren is the goddess of Peace and Growth(that is new given information.) The "god" thing might be a typo, or was just put to that because they see her as a their true god. Zaros is the "Master" of Fate and Control. His alignment is Fate and Control, again (new given information) Stated in the BTS- Gods Emissaries, the Emissaries are extra lore about the gods. Also, please sign when you are posting.Kinglink15 (talk) 10:39, May 30, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes, 'The god of' seems weird. You can attain godhood, it's not that the alignment is linked to the person being a god (like Thor the god of thunder: only he makes it, something like that). Maybe that's why Jagex rarely uses the word alignment, but chose for philosophy instead. That word as a 'not dependent on' feeling, where alignment seems to suggest it's linked to a god like DNA is linked to you (for lack of a better analogy). Maybe we should change the word 'Alignment' in the god infobox into 'philosophy'. 11:02, May 30, 2013 (UTC)


 * Don't forget, Alignment means the side, or allies one pick, the gods simply pick the side they suit is right. and should be kept as Alignment, but, Leon, you have a point Should we change it? I think we should keep it. But who knows, I might chagn my mind soon.Kinglink15 (talk) 11:09, May 30, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes, mine may not have been the textbook definition of alignment ;P But I still think philosophy might be better. 1) Jagex uses it :P 2) When you read the books especially Zamorak you [read: I] get the notion they thought up themselves a conviction; a away of life; a way to see life. That sounds more like to a philosophy than an independent thing you can align yourself with. 11:21, May 30, 2013 (UTC)


 * Ok, lets do that if Jagex indeed uses it. I will work on Guthix's, Seren, Saradomin, u do the rest ok?Kinglink15 (talk) 11:27, May 30, 2013 (UTC)


 * Seren is never called the Goddess of Peace and Growth by her emissary, her emissary says she is A goddess of Peace and Growth. This is different compared to Saradomin who actually referred to as the god of order and light. 120.145.206.245 11:57, May 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * Ok, either way, she is A goddess of Peace and growth, it is a way her follower would describe her as, A Goddess, because they know she isn't the only god in Gielinor. Also, please make sure u post your words in the right place, under me or wh oever posts next of course.Kinglink15 (talk) 12:05, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

Sliske (possible reveal of being a god?)
Why can't Sliske be included in this article? Although it is by no means comfirmed he is or is not a god, there is some proof that he MIGHT be a god, or significant in the sixth age gods. These are two reasonibly crediable sources? The God Emissaries are trying to convert citizens into their Religion? There are things aganist this agrument, yet there is no definite proof either way? Can it please be added under Zaros?
 * Mod Osbourne revealed he MIGHT be a god.
 * Sliske has a god emissary

Italay90 (talk) 14:41, May 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * Because we don't know either way it's just speculation until the God Emissaries content is released and speculation should not be included in the article per RS:NOT. If it turns out he is a god when the God Emissaries are released, you can add it back in then.04ismailjj6 (talk) 14:56, May 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Osborne has said they haven't decided on whether Sliske is a god or not. His emissary is in no way a reliable source, as we know she is just a misinformed fangirl. Finally, Wahisietel and Azzanadra state that Sliske is most likely not a god. 15:06, May 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * If so should this not be added to the article? It has a strong relation to the gods? Even if he is acting as a god? Italay90 (talk) 15:09, May 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * PS- Afterall he will be a  joinable faction. Italay90 (talk) 15:11, May 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * It's mentioned often eniugh on his own article, but it is trivial here. If anything, he may be added under "Mistaken for gods". 15:13, May 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Also according to AtL ep1, his Emissary is misinformed and has no clue what she's talking about - he may not be a god at all and there may be other conditions for ascension besides using an artefact to kill a god. 15:18, May 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Real Not Pure, we've already been over that ^? I think "Mistaken for Gods" is just as bad, as it has not been comfirmed that he is NOT a god either. We could wait until tomorrow hahaha! (When Emissaries come out?) But I do think this should be mentioned in the page atleast. Italay90 (talk) 15:33, May 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Azzanadra and Wahisietel are reliable sources who state he isn't a god. His emissary is an unreliable source who states he is a god. I'll do the math: current canonical game consensus says that Sliske - most likely - isn't a god. ...for now... 15:47, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

I think Azzanadra and Wahisietel said Sliske doesn't want to be a god (On a similar note: sometimes I don't want to be a boy either, but that doesn't change the fact either). The Emissaries don't have perfect knowledge, on the other hand Mod Osborne admitted that 'his favorite god, that isn't yet a god' is Sliske, and after the assassination of Guthix, it's a lot more difficult to keep thinking he isn't. To ad Sliske as a god would be a good prediction, but misplaced. Equally misplaced would be to ad him to the 'mistaken for gods', because that would claim a certainty in the opposite direction. Adding a new category a long the lines of 'possibly/likely/what ever a god' seems best if you ask me. 16:12, May 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * Basically my point proven that Sliske shouldn't be added because:
 * There is no proof that he is or isn't a God, it was stated that if he was he would hide it, and it he isn't, he would claim he is.
 * His emissary is a missinformed person who isn't worth trusting if Sliske is a god or not, so she isn't a proven source to follow.
 * So there, we wait till sequel quest, and see if t is stated or not. We shouldn't speculate

Kinglink15 (talk) 17:02, May 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * Well Jagex have told us they are introducing a new god, which can only be Sliske, he may not be a god yet, but he is likely to become one (after killing Guthix and taking his powers), THE EMISSARIES have not been released, she may be well informed (for all you know?) He may be a god, and the fact that Osbourne said that he may become one suggests Jagex are/have considered it. I believe it is worth mentioning? Italay90 (talk) 17:19, May 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * It seems you are not understanding it was stated by Mod Osborne that she wasn't well informed, and shouldn't be taken seirously and 3 ppl, if I counted right, have been telling you this. Sliske emissary might be there just be for run pretty much, this is for free to play also, so the players might think who are free to play that Sliske is a god. Osborne said he might be a god only clue leading that he might be one is from Sliske being his favourite character, and that his favourite god is the one who will become one. We shouldn't add information like this because we will be speculating. So as far as we know, Sliske emissary is badly informed means she is less of a reliable resource to even trust. We can state her " beliefe" in the emissary page. But as stated by Osborne, she is badly missinformed. We shouldn't add him to the page until he becomes a god, if he does. If we do, we would be speculating. But with no proof said he is one, or that he isn't. We can't speculate.( please excuse any weird word, I am on my phone) Kinglink15 (talk) 17:41, May 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * I don't know why people are assuming Sliske's Emissary is uninformed before she is even released. While it's true Mod Osborne said she was unreliable that was pre-release content. Also unreliable does not mean" completely and utterly wrong". She might be right about him being a god and wrong about other stuff. It may have even been changed since, or Mod Osborne may have even been lying to throw people off. Or he could've made a mistake. I think we should assume Sliske is not a god until we get explicit in-game information saying otherwise 04ismailjj6 (talk) 17:58, May 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * Okay, Here's the thing.
 * . YOU ARE MISSING OUT SOME IMPORTANT PIECES OF INFORMATION. Even "Sliske will have a god emissary" is discluded - which is a fact. You say she is misinformed yet how do you know what she is misinformed about (as 04 rightly said).
 * . Why would Jagex waste there time with a "Jokey non-exisitant god?"
 * . Osbourne said you work for your god. Contribute towards the cause of your chosen  god . 
 * . Osbourne says Sliske is "someone who may or may not be a god". It is more a mystery, which I still believe should be added, perhaps under "Unknown Status"? Italay90 (talk) 18:08, May 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * Sliske's status of being/not being a god will likely remain a mystery, however, the fact he is heavily assosiated with the gods and is worshipped as a god is enough (in my opinion) for him to be MENTIONED (at the very least) in this article. Italay90 (talk) 18:11, May 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * Sliske's emissary may be perfectly correct about Sliske's mind, but be mistaking about his godhood. - I think that's the point being made about Sliske's emissary being unreliable in a way. I think withholding information about the possibility of Sliske's godhood would also be mistaking. I think 'likely gods' have more claim to be mentioned on the god-page than characters that are 'mistaken to be gods'. On that point alone I think we should add Sliske. 18:16, May 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * Dude, I AM NOT THE ONE AND ONLY ONE SAYING SHE IS MISSINFORMED, Mod Osborne stated that she is missinformed on him being a god, She may know Sliskle ways, but not him being a god. Either way, Sliske Emissary only can give us Sliske background information. But no trustworthy information if he is a god or not. True, He might change it and make it that she is Well informed, and put it to where she wants him to be followed. But either way, him being a god, or not, is best to wait until a quest comes to help us with trustworthy information, I am sure there will be a Q&A for teh Emissaries, so lets leave it to that, ask if she is misinformed like he stated before.Kinglink15 (talk) 19:15, May 28, 2013 (UTC)



The whole point is that we don't know how misinformed she is, this is what he's talking about in the video, he says his godhood is a ",mystery" and that what his emissary is saying "may or may not" be the case. Either way, I believe he is strongly related to the gods and is worshipped (by extremists :L). It is not, nor will it be for sometime whether he is or is not a god. Italay90 (talk) 19:21, May 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * Ok, that is what you believe, but can't speculate, and add information that aren't yet proven, if so, we will or might be, giving wrong information to those who read the wiki for information.Kinglink15 (talk) 19:25, May 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well why is it possible to "follow" him as if he were a god, yet he is not actually a god? What is he then? And it is not speculation by using the words "MAY BE". Italay90 (talk) 19:27, May 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * Maybe because THIS IS, his emissary, who BELIEVES he is a god, with still no PROOF if he is or isn't. SO that's it, Maybe is still taking the risk that he is, or not a god, but also not KNOWING the article to put him, SO it is best off not to add him until more proof and information is given, please just be patient, I am sure, Osborne said may or may not be, there is no proof that he is, or isn't, it's just Osborne saying "we haven't picked yet." So we shouldn't add him to this page untill we know which is which.Kinglink15 (talk) 19:39, May 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * I told you he was a god! Italay90 (talk) 14:18, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * Read it again ;) "Once a simple housemaid, Relomia became lost in the Shadow Realm and became convinced that Sliske is a god." This doesn't mean he is, only that she think he is. We know just as much as before... only with more certainty ;) 14:26, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

And like stated by mod Osborne she is misinformed, so her words aren't trustworthy at all only to his pastKinglink15 (talk) 14:28, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

Guthix:The Godless
I think, they don't belong here, and are not necessarily Guthixians... lets have a discussions? :P 16:08, May 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well the Ex-Guthixians are all now Godless, which I believe makes this suitable, as it is a faction and informs readers that Guthixians now consider themselves "Godless".Italay90 (talk) 16:43, May 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * yes but not all of those who are a godless were Guthixian some could have been atheist/ none gods follwers and just believe that guthix had a point in where Gielinor shouldn't have a god in it.Kinglink15 (talk) 17:02, May 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Godless means you acknowledge the gods existance yet do not support any, whereas atheists do not believe in any gods, Atheism still exists, seperate to Godless. There may have been non-god believers, but very little, the majority of Godless are Guthixians, and Godless also follow Guthix's prinicibles. eg Balance. Atheists and people who did not follow a god prior did not follow this. Italay90 (talk) 17:14, May 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't think atheists exist. You can't really disprove gods' existence, since, you know... they exist. Unless they claim the God Wars were fought by carrots or something. 17:20, May 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * You kind of proved my point. However, we should keep that section until the enissaries are released with more information about Godless.Kinglink15 (talk) 17:19, May 28, 2013 (UTC).
 * Actually, the only godless people are Ex-Guthixians, as all people prior to Guthix's death supported a god. I think atheism died out, after the Second Age. So all people who do not support a god, did support Guthix (or may have converted). Godless people still follow Guthix's prinicables, of balance. So basically Godless, is Guthix after death. It may also refer to those who oppose the gods from returning, which was previously Guthix. Italay90 (talk) 17:51, May 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * The Godless should not be a faction on the Gods Page, and certainly shouldn't be under Guthix, as they certainly aren;t composed entierly of Guthixians and it may be a mistake to assume that all Guthixians are members of the Godless faction. I think the Section should be removed. 04ismailjj6 (talk) 17:58, May 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * They follow Guthix's idea of Balance. It was created after Guthix's demise, due to Guthix's demise to protect the world. All or most members are likely to have been ex-Guthixians. Italay90 (talk) 18:09, May 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * I think you're making a fallacy something along the lines of 'post hoc ergo propter', just because it was after Guthix demise, does not mean they are Guthixian. Similarly, you shouldn't call Seren a Guthixian either, despite them having similar points of view. Just like with the Grey wizards, the Godless faction may well have (former) Guthixian within their ranks, but that doesn't make them Guthixians. If anything, it makes the Guthixians no longer Guthixians. 18:20, May 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * The Dorgeshuun are atheist. 18:29, May 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Not at all. They don't worship any god because they deem them all evil, like Bandos. They don't deny the existence of gods. 18:30, May 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Correct, they do know of gods. And atheism is about the question: "do you believe they exist?", not do you like them. But they could indeed be classed as part of 'the godless' faction. 18:36, May 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well the Dorgeshuun have a differing "Branch" of Godlessness. They do not follow the ways of balance, unlike the Guthixian "Branch", I'm wrong sorry :( I thought only Guthixans were godless... Should we have a godless section on Gods? Considering Godlessness is related to Guthix and the Gods? I don't know if the Dorgeshuun will fight for the Godless or at all ? The Guthixian Godless  follow the wishes of Guthix.
 * Italay90 (talk) 19:15, May 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * I think we should, and when more information comes to it, we add.Kinglink15 (talk) 19:17, May 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Before the Doreshuun fought for Bandos, which means they may not support the Godless faction, hence why I atleast think if godless is included, we should seperate it into the "Guthix Godless" and "Other Godless", as some Godless do not follow the Guthix Godless ways, which is for no god to be on Gielinor. Italay90 (talk) 19:24, May 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Let me make a few things clear. This is a page about the Gods that exist or existed in the RS-universe, and although related, this is not a page about the God Emissaries. The Godless are a faction in the 'to be released God Emissaries'-content: a faction, not a god. Therefore people/banches/etc. that can be identified in such a way do not belong on this page. The conversation about - if they are interesting enough to be added to the God Emissaries-page, only to the The Godless faction page, or not even that - should not be made here, but on the talk pages of the ones I mentioned and linked to... See you there? ;) 21:53, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

Add main article link
Hello,

Due to the article being locked (for me anyway), could someone please add a "main" template to the "Godless" subheading underneath Guthix- the link being The Godless. Thank you :D (it was really annoying me :L) Italay90 (talk) 12:41, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * In the discussion above, some (like me) say that it should be removed anyway. 12:48, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

Origin of Gielinor
So, it seems a user picked to put that Jas is in the middle, and Ful was on the left (Elder gods creating the universe) Was it confirmed or stated? If so we can leave it, if not, it should be reverted back to where we don't know the facts. Because it seems it might be speculation. 21:38, June 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * I think it's some form of speculative deduction: Ful a firey Elder god, Jas a soiley elder god - seems like a natural pick, but not confirmed for what I know. 22:29, June 11, 2013 (UTC)