User talk:Salix of Prifddinas

Re: CompCapeReqs Navbox
No problem for the links, though pardon my mis-correction of the Scabarites Notes one.

The navbox look neat, but I am almost-not-at-all aware of all the requirements, so only the icons provide me too little information to figure out what requirement it is meant to represent at times (especially all the various notes/books).

One note on the content, though, isn't "unlocking the port regions" subsumed by the "final story voyage", as it requires 6m miles distance travelled? IP83.101.44.209 (talk) 08:10, June 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * A name/short description could indeed help, though might work against the idea of having a compact navbox. Only trying will tell? IP83.101.44.209 (talk) 08:26, June 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * Making subnavboxes could make the navbox easier to navigate. The descriptions are looking good. IP83.101.44.209 (talk) 09:22, June 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * Not sure whether these are good suggestions or not, but two thoughts of mine:
 * Don't centre the items in a subgroup
 * Remove the verbs and "all" from the descriptions. E.g."Obtain rank 1250+ in Conquest" becomes "Rank 1250+ in Conquest" or "Obtain all Circus clothes" becomes "Circus clothes".
 * IP83.101.44.209 (talk) 11:59, June 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * I'd say go for it, but I wouldn't go overboard with adding the template everywhere (e.g. add it to player-owned port, but not Player-owned port/Special voyages). Before you do, left-align the "Minigame" subnavbox of the regular comp cape navbox if you could. IP83.101.44.209 (talk) 13:27, June 24, 2015 (UTC)

I'd be more inclined to put the template on Titles as opposed to the other articles that may refer to those titles. IP83.101.44.209 (talk) 15:00, June 24, 2015 (UTC)

Templates
Hi, I see that you've started adding these completely pointless and very poorly written completionist requirements templates to many pages. Could you perhaps stop and consult more than one wiki user before you go ahead and implement such a change to pages with relatively high traffic? I'd say these templates in their current state qualify for speedy deletion. Perhaps there's a way to rework them and keep them. Whichever way we look at them, they definitely need more work. Please undo your last edits and/or take these templates back to your userspace. 14:29, June 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * I would strongly advocate for their deletion for the following reasons:


 * 1) There's no way to shorten requirement descriptions appropriately to fit in a navbox. At the moment many of them are crude and unclear. Some of them don't make sense at all. Making them longer in order to improve that isn't an option.
 * 2) Many requirements are too small and there's no sensible page to link to, sometimes not even a section of a page.
 * 3) It's difficult to pick an icon associated with some of the requirements, and it would be hard to achieve consistency in this.
 * 4) What key have you used when you've grouped requirements in categories? Type of content, but then spells alone, and then area-related? Grouping so many different things will be very tricky if you don't want to end up with a large "miscellaneous" group.
 * Don't get me wrong, this is a nice idea and I've thought about making this a template before as well, but my conclusion was that requirements look better when displayed in a list form you can tick off. No navbox needed. Although this probably could be done, personally I don't see a need to push them into a navbox. It's a handy shortcut thing in one's userspace (if you need it), but not so good for articles. I'll think about it more, but so far I'm not convinced this needs implementing. 14:55, June 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * I have to agree with 5-x. As far as listing requirements goes, the list on the comp page does it perfectly for the most part. I'd expect someone who wants to view all the requirements to have that page open. Navboxes should be used for sets of articles that have a strong relationship with each other. The same way we don't (and shouldn't) list all the requirements of a quest in its navbox, we don't have a need for a navigation tool between these items. 16:41, June 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * At the very most I'd see a a template like wpalso or 2007 page notifying that this page has a completionist requirement. But actually, text on the page is better and already there (maybe a text template? whatever). 18:11, June 24, 2015 (UTC)

Re: Cleansing cores?
I got the message in my chatbox saying something like "You have collected enough shadow cores of each kind, speak to Lord Amlodd for your reward". I'd already done enough Truthful via my previous Slayer task. Manifest I cleansed as I went. Blissful I was going to cleanse in one go once I had fifteen, but then that message popped up. I went straight to Lord A with a bunch of Blissful cores in my inventory. 17:59, June 28, 2015 (UTC)
 * Maybe it counted Blissful cores I got from pping and cleansed as "cleansed" but not as "dropped" (which the requirement specifies)? 18:04, June 28, 2015 (UTC)
 * Sure. 19:08, June 28, 2015 (UTC)
 * Others sources of cores aren't supposed to count toward the total. This had been discussed before and confirmed few times by JMods. I don't have the other jmod confirmation but I have the one from Mod Harrison; https://twitter.com/JagexHarrison/status/588384007320121344 Proulxs (talk) 20:01, July 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * But since you must get 15 of each from killing, and killing only, wouldn't it be confusing to read that: "Shadow cores obtained otherwise e.g. pickpocketing from clan workers will also count for the amount of cleansed cores if cleansed)." People may (and if I'm talking to you about this edit it's because one of my friend did) belive that you only need to have 15 of each and cleanse them no matter where they are from... I understand that you can cleanse from pickpocketing or agility, but in the end you still have to kill many shadow and receive 15 of each from them. The wording on the comp cape page should be modified to be made clearer Proulxs (talk) 22:17, July 8, 2015 (UTC)

Hmm, that would explain why I can't get the lamp from Lord Amlood. I've gotten ~40m thieving xp from prif workers in the past few months, usually starting my rounds by thieving Amlodd. Haven't really kept track of cores obtained from that, so I'm not certain if I could've gotten the lamp yet if non-cb sources *did* count. But yeah. --Shockstorm (talk) 22:49, July 8, 2015 (UTC)

Re: Woodcutting cape?
You should ask User:Jlun2, he has been correcting names and adding images today. Maybe he hasn't gotten to the untrimmed variant yet. Gaz and I just stepped in helping to change all the filenames. IP83.101.44.209 (talk) 18:19, June 28, 2015 (UTC)
 * In-game it is Woodcutting cape, Woodcut. cape (t), Hooded woodcutting cape and Hooded woodcut. cape (t), so those should be the final names of all of them. I only really jumped in because jlun couldn't find where to edit it in your template. 18:48, June 28, 2015 (UTC)

WC capes
http://i.imgur.com/Jpk75f0.png

Only the trim --Jlun2 (talk) 18:45, June 28, 2015 (UTC)

RC cape
Hey thanks! I think the poh icon also has untrim. If that doesn't, then use the GE API I guess. :P --Jlun2 (talk) 11:06, June 29, 2015 (UTC)
 * http://services.runescape.com/m=itemdb_rs/4870_obj_sprite.gif?id=9765

"4870" is the current Runedate (so this link must be changed every day). The items there have rather odd borders too, so they must be fixed. --Jlun2 (talk) 11:23, June 29, 2015 (UTC)

RE:Category
Great :D 16:32, July 8, 2015 (UTC)

Nemi poison
RfD is not needed, redirects exist for a reason. 13:32, July 13, 2015 (UTC)

RE:Goebie gender
In-game, a lot of them have pronouns in their examine text, and there's a Goebie mother and father, so... 09:37, July 14, 2015 (UTC)

Krar Jnr
Hey Salix! I saw you moved Krar jnr.png to Krar Jnr.png. I think this is incorrect -- the name of the item is "Krar jnr", and that takes precedence for naming icons. Am I wrong about the name? 08:07, July 15, 2015 (UTC)
 * (I hope it doesn't seem like I'm trying to revert everything you do, because that's totally not the case, but here goes). The name of the NPC version of the pet is "Krar Jnr". The name of the item is "Krar jnr". They are confusingly different, and I don't think we have a rule in place for which one to pick. For the most part we usually defer to the NPC version of the name (e.g. General Awwdor's item version is General awwdor, but we keep the article capitalized). So, in that case...the name of the article *should* actually be with a capital J, even though the icon wouldn't be.
 * That's my take on it, at least. Do you think there's a better way to handle that inconsistency? 09:04, July 15, 2015 (UTC)
 * I imagine they are -- or perhaps they don't see it as an inconsistency. Nobody knows what's in their heads. 09:24, July 15, 2015 (UTC)

Re: Goebie gender?
Sorry about the late reply, I read your message and then forgot to respond – here's the source livestream and timestamp (which I cited at the end of the paragraph). -- 04:40, July 16, 2015 (UTC)

RE: My signature
Zag het al ja.

Noob. 21:58, July 16, 2015 (UTC)

Re:Templates :)
Thank you! I've been slacking on that project tbh, I'll get back into it ASAP :) -- 14:43, July 17, 2015 (UTC)

location links
something like this? 15:05, July 17, 2015 (UTC)
 * Seeing the deletion log of Location link, it's not really needed. 15:35, July 17, 2015 (UTC)

We had one, but it was kinda dumb and useless. We deleted it. I'll try and see what I can do with the lodestone icons, or perhaps standard banners. -- 17:53, July 17, 2015 (UTC)
 * One could argue the Music link and Unid character are equally overkill. Having an image just to have an image... IP83.101.44.209 (talk) 17:55, July 17, 2015 (UTC)

DoD navbox
Hey Salix! Would you be interested in filling out the Dimension of Disaster navbox? It never quite made it there when the quest came out. 08:25, July 20, 2015 (UTC)
 * Up to you -- there's a ton of stuff missing either way. I personally prefer big beefy navboxes, but at least with Recipe for Disaster (the closest parallel) we have separate navboxes for each subquest. 08:32, July 20, 2015 (UTC)

Re: DoD:DS items
Cabbage (New Varrock) can be obtained by picking it in a cabbage patch, buying it from Xuan's Fresh Produce or (at least originally) as a pickpocket reward from Zombie (New Varrock). They heal life points when eaten. Rotten tomato (New Varrock) is just like its outside variant: obtained from a crate and used to pelt those in the pillories. Both items can be obtained, and used, at any point while inside New Varrock, regardless of which quests have yet to be started, have been started, are in progress, or have been completed. Like a plank in any other quest, they are just required items to complete the quest.

Compare this to Dwellberries (Dimension of Disaster) of which only one can be held at one time, and which are only available during the portion of the quest where they are required; not before, not after.

I also want to include the Ring of life in this discussion: it again is not quest specific, and a normal item required to complete a quest. Quest categories and navboxes should be used on NPC and item articles by applying the same restrictions as the "Quest item" field in the infobox: which is restricted for NPCs that play an actual part in a quest (e.g. Thessalia because she instructs how to make dyes, but not Xuan even though he sells cabbage), and items that are specific to that quest (during or after, e.g. quest rewards). The prose in those articles can of course refer to the quests in question in all other cases. IP83.101.44.209 (talk) 14:58, July 20, 2015 (UTC)
 * The New Varrock navbox seems an appropriate place (they received separate articles after all). I believe it's already there. IP83.101.44.209 (talk) 17:50, July 20, 2015 (UTC)
 * Your last message on my talk page was of agreement, so I have removed the cabbage, rotten tomato, ring of life and lockpick from the quest navboxes. I haven't touched the music tracks, as I lack the information necessary for the proper course of action. IP83.101.44.209 (talk) 04:03, July 21, 2015 (UTC)

DoD:CoA
Do you know what the Lockpick (Dimension of Disaster) is used for in Dimension of Disaster: Curse of Arrav? Neither the guide nor the quick guide mention it other than in the required items section; and at least in replays, I haven't needed it. If it is used, it looks like another case of the above discussion, however. IP83.101.44.209 (talk) 15:05, July 20, 2015 (UTC)

Music
I'd also like to come back to my note about keeping a New Varrock and DoD navboxes split as much as possible. If music is unlocked as part of the quest, put it in those navboxes, not in the New Varrock one as well. IP83.101.44.209 (talk) 15:16, July 20, 2015 (UTC)
 * Your last note is correct; but the DoD navboxes should include the New Varrock category. I did DoD near release date, so I have no idea when/where the songs are actually unlocked. I'd say, all songs that are unlocked by simply exploring New Varrock, without starting any of the sub quests, should be in the New Varrock template. The others are from areas/cutscenes/... that can only be reached as part of a subquest. IP83.101.44.209 (talk) 17:50, July 20, 2015 (UTC)

Re: Ping & Pong
I suppose we could remove the category from the joint page again; though they are in New Varrock as a group/band thing in the bar/inn. There's no reason why I haven't added them to the navbox or added information about them to the article, other than I couldn't be bothered. They are more like scenery to me. Have fun ^^. IP83.101.44.209 (talk) 11:43, July 21, 2015 (UTC)

Re:Tables
Aye, haha; I copypasted the Wikipedia table for NCIS and went from there. :P I guess they could be made more elegant by reducing the column widths, e.g. by removing the quest icons and/or using abbreviations for the quests, but if you've got series as huge as the elf quests, that won't help much either. Can always make 'em collapsible. Feel free to play around with the formatting. 08:38, July 22, 2015 (UTC)
 * You can use my lab if you want. 08:46, July 22, 2015 (UTC)
 * Could I request a version where the chatheads are left out? I'm expect that'll significantly reduce the required height of the table. IP83.101.44.209 (talk) 04:15, July 23, 2015 (UTC)
 * The table looks much better without the chatheads, in my opinion. I can agree that they look nice at times, but the additional height required by having them makes the table bulky.
 * One thing I noticed (specifically in Fswe's example below), but couldn't immediately figure out, even for tables with fewer quests listed, it seems to take up 100% width. Think you can get the table to be its preferred width if that is less than the available width? IP83.101.44.209 (talk) 08:32, July 23, 2015 (UTC)
 * Ye broke something. 08:11, July 23, 2015 (UTC)

Re:QSPT
I'm still looking for the cause of your bug, but one thing I would strongly recommend is using Lua for something like this. The program logic require to make these sorts of tables is fairly complicated, and MediaWiki parser functions are just barely up the task, forcing you to do horrendous things like User:Salix7/QSPT character line. Lua allows you to actually easily program with an arbitrary number of named variables, and would probably result in code that is about 10% as long, in a single place, and much easier to read and debug. Have you used it before? 13:21, July 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * Have you tried moving the  (end of comment tags) in your "ACTUAL TABLE CELLS" section to be on the same line as the   that follows it? I think the additional new lines inserted by that are what is causing the paragraph tag to appear. IP83.101.44.209 (talk) 13:26, July 24, 2015 (UTC)