User talk:Fswe1















This is too empty!
http://i.imgur.com/NVTCQPM.png

A trio of  (African bush vipers) to make it less so. Aren't they pretty with their vibrant colours? 08:35, August 24, 2013 (UTC)

Pls, read again.
Please read again... you just archived it, so it's the last entry.... I didn not accuse you of removing the whole table. I accused you of removing part of it ( the part in which the avatars were...). Seems to me you even agreed to doign this. 08:39, August 24, 2013 (UTC)


 * Fuck... I stand corrected.... ashamedly so. My deepest and sincere apologies. I really thought you removed them twice. I have no idea how I made such a grave mistake. I'm sorry, I hope you want/can to forgive me :( 09:04, August 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yesh, but this happened... I think, more than twice already. I'm starting to think it's not just my dyslexia... but laziness. That sucks. So, still, sorry :( 11:06, August 24, 2013 (UTC)

I made a thread
about lore and stuff, you're into that stuff, right? 15:19, August 26, 2013 (UTC)

Minor NPCs
When you make pages for NPCs not found in-game please specify where the information about them came from. 17:57, August 27, 2013 (UTC)

FIRST
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb1377318862/common/avatars/thumb/4/47/4393346.png/150px-4393346.png

That's an actual dwarf cannon from RSC. -- 18:30, August 27, 2013 (UTC)

RE:Delist
Oh man, I totally forgot about that. I'll try to do that this weekend. 03:16, August 31, 2013 (UTC)
 * >_> I've been very lazy lately. Want to help me make it? 21:22, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

Zamorak
Jagex said many times that the Saradomin/Zamorak-disctinction is one of opposides, but not one where Sara= good, and Zammy=Evil, just one of order vs chaos. They were very clear about this, adamant even. When the God Emessaries were released and leading up to it, they said they would give the player real reasons to follow a god (Mod Osborne: "we took a lot of time to decide what the philosphy of each god is. To make sure theya re viable, something you can really stand behind.", even for Zamorak. I know you're not a stranger to RS Official Lore Forum... surely you picked up on people argueing exactly that. This is firmly founded in both lore, 'meta-lore' (like that Mod Osborne quote), and general reasoning. I agree with you when you say it's not literally said that Zamorak is benevolent, but when you talk to Moia, Moldark and others or hear Zamaraon talk about Zamorak and his philosophy... surely you too can see he's not evil and at least tries to make people believe he hs a benevolent nature, harsh, destructive even... but he means well. At least... that's his PR, but other gods do the same, say Saradomin. I see no reason what it would not be fair to state that Zamorak can be viewed as benevolent by some, most of who are his own followers. You can see it as a way to provide counter balance against the legacy of 'evil' linked to Zamorak (and Zaros alike). 11:34, August 31, 2013 (UTC)

Besides the ancient symbol, you may also want to add a Saradominist symbol ;) Your idea of evil fits well with it :P 13:37, August 31, 2013 (UTC)

Red Boater Chathead
Hey there Fswe1. Could you explain why these points are better? "normal size" and "consistent with, er, everything"? The image taken from the appearance interface is also from RS, only bigger and thus more detail, so I don't see any problem with that. And do you mean by more consistent the direction the head looks? Because the one you reverted is mirrored by an editor. This looks odd with non-symmetric hats. 13:08, August 31, 2013 (UTC)
 * The size doesn't matter as long as it's bigger. Just adding |120px before or after the |left would make it work. Then when clicking on the picture people can see the detailed version. 13:18, August 31, 2013 (UTC)
 * That's true in case of the chat, however it's smaller than the default size in the appearance interface. I can't be the only one looking there much of the time, where you see more detail, like non-double sided polygons, little holes and how hair changes with different hats. 13:30, August 31, 2013 (UTC)

citegeneral
Thanks for correcting those... things. I wonder, would it be possible to change the code a bit so it would automatically link to the time that's listed, or is that too complicated? 19:41, September 2, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I can see that. Too bad, I was hoping it could work with those Twitch streams too. Although they are also scrollable, they are less easy to work with than the videos on youtube. Thanks though ;) 19:51, September 2, 2013 (UTC)

Wizards and Witches
Wiches are not the female equivalent of Wizards in RuneScape. They are different things, although both are users of magic. Female magicians can be Wizards, as Ariane, Wizard Valina and Wizard Jalarast show. The male equivalent of a Witch is a Warlock, if you were wondering. 09:52, September 4, 2013 (UTC)

Damn..
I should be angy at the person who taught me false things :P 08:51, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

Already dumped their bodies near Guthix's remains... they shall never be heard of again. 15:44, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

dialogue?
Isn't it a lowercase d? Looks like the template even links to /dialogue. 10:02, September 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * Noob 10:12, September 7, 2013 (UTC)

Infobox skin
It's not meant to have the outfit's equip in the image parameter... 15:05, September 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * Not really, it just looks bad... Try the chathead or something, but don't put big ass people in the box... Also, that's exactly why you can hide that parameter with "no". 15:08, September 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * NPC's are different. Whereas every NPC is in the infobox, most overrides have their icon in there. The inconsistency is what makes it ugly and it's confusing when you take a look at the category as a whole. 15:12, September 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * This is stupid, I don't even care anymore... 15:18, September 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * ...I really don't care anymore. Also, go get SGS icons for loyalty outfits. 15:22, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

RE:FA
Yeah, I think that should be fine. 18:18, September 13, 2013 (UTC)

Graphical updates/Inventory
Hello, I have been told that you are one of the people that works alot of the pages for Graphical updates. Earlier I uploaded a new version of the image for the Steel key ring's inventory icon because it has been graphically updated slightly. I also renamed the image to "Steel_key_ring.png" so this made a redlink on the page for Inventory icon graphical updates. I have fixed the redlink but I am just leaving you this message to let you know that there's an intermediate graphical update that's not listed on the page now.

12:13, September 17, 2013 (UTC)


 * Okay, I can see these pages are alot of work. Perhaps you could explain how you add to these pages so I can add things to them if I am uploading a graphically updated version of something? Do you have to reupload the old version as a new file or can you use an image in the file history somehow? 14:51, September 17, 2013 (UTC)


 * Equipped items looks interesting to me, but it seems like there's lots of things that could be added and that the page would become massive. Could I split this up somehow? 20:29, September 19, 2013 (UTC)

RE:Cheese
I don't remember when they were founded, just cite a source if if you're gonna add it. CITE ALL THE THINGS. 19:20, September 19, 2013 (UTC)

Need a source for the trivia please
http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/David_Osborne?diff=8654410&oldid=8641614 23:45, September 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks noob 05:38, September 20, 2013 (UTC)

Test Edit
Thank you for categorising your images on the RuneScape Wiki. However, the category you used should instead be categorised in one of the subcategories, instea of the main one. Thanks! 03:52, September 20, 2013 (UTC)

Feedback about A Temple Devoured
I finished reading the quest, and overall it was great: however I spotted a few things I wanted to comment about.
 * First, the whole role of Sheldon seems a bit random: he doesn't contribute to the events whatsoever, and the story could move on perfectly without him.
 * Second thing I found thinking is that from the moment the broken amulet was mentioned, I thought it would be available as a reward from the quest, or be crucial to the plot and return as a 'Checkov's Gun', meaning its true significance to the plot isn't clear until later in the story.
 * Next, I really like Deeshyrick and his character. However, seeing that out of 17 known Mahjarrats, only 2 are female (not counting Moia) I feel that Deeshyrick should be female, so we have more balanced
 * Also, I feel that the dialogue you gave to Jhallan doesn't really fit to his personality. Perhaps you could replace him with some other Mahjarrat we haven't seen before, like Lamistard or Ralvash?
 * Another thing I find worth of mentioning is that the ancient pot should be able to be obtained anytime after the temple collapsed, so that players wouldn't miss any rewards.
 * Yet another thing I find odd is that Osman refers Senliten as 'ghost woman'. Is this intentional, because I feel that isn't how you should refer to a former pharaoh of the Kharidian Desert.
 * The final thing I'd like to note is that Pordak's role as a guardian of the Sphinx could be given to Deeshyrick, seeing that having an immortal guardian has its own benefits. However, Pordak could still be the one who dragged Deeshyrick's corpse near the Sphinx and wrote the notes.

That's pretty much all the feedback I have to say. A Temple Devoured was a well-written quest, and asides aforementioned points, I liked it. I really want to see how Jungle Quest Series will turn out!

AquaMage2459 (talk) 12:09, September 22, 2013 (UTC)AquaMage2459

Re:Feedback about A Temple Devoured
You got an excellent point about Sheldon, and it does make the start more comedic. One example of the humour provided by Sheldon that stood out for me was that Archeologist Ali mentioned Sheldon after four Alis, which I find both funny and an example of 'Odd Name Out'. I'd keep Sheldon in the quest, but remove his appearance when searching the altar, and instead Archeologist Ali would ask you fairly early in the quest to talk to Sheldon so he wouldn't cause mayhem around the dig site and potentially destroy any artifacts. And if we want to keep Sheldon in the quest in order to prevent him from being a one-bit wonder, when Abigail asks what destroyed the Temple of Amascut, perhaps you can reply that the Temple collapsed due to an incident caused by Sheldon.

AquaMage2459 (talk) 13:18, September 22, 2013 (UTC)AquaMage2459

Your Brassica prime edit
Don't you think it has more to do with the fact it as a joke before, and not meant as an actual god. This changed recently, due to ppl like you lobbying :D So now we have a lore inconsistency :( 10:48, September 25, 2013 (UTC)


 * But that would be an after-the-fact lore-fix :3 Btw, anyway you could source that, and find the reason why. I don't remember it :-/  14:29, September 25, 2013 (UTC)

Kharshai
Didn't they say there will be extra content for the people that completed Koschei's troubles, while saying nothing about Kharshai/Koschei being there?? 14:18, September 26, 2013 (UTC)

"l2spell pls"
P - L - S

I spell pls. I do good? 15:10, September 26, 2013 (UTC)

Worshipers
It's spelled with one P. Google is your friend. Duffmaaan (talk) 00:24, September 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * This is interesting actually. A majority of dictionaries and websites will say worshiped, while a couple say worshipped, without being able to give explanation to either (such as American/British spelling). I'll change it back to two Ps to avoid future confusion. Duffmaaan (talk) 00:34, September 27, 2013 (UTC)

Latin
Nota bene is an italian phrase as well as latin. The dutch remark was a mistake. My point is that latin abbreviations like etc., i.e. and e.g. are widely used enough that most people know what they mean if not necessarily what they stand for. Using less well known phrases such as casu quo could confuse people or cause them to waste time looking up the meaning of the phrase. The wiki is supposed to be accessible by as many people as possible and using relatively obscure Latin phrases isn't fulfilling that goal. That's why I replaced the phrases with English. 04ismailjj6 (talk) 12:14, September 28, 2013 (UTC)

red asterisk
Why is there that red asterisk (see e.g. eflist of Abbinah)? 11:55, October 5, 2013 (UTC)

Okay, ty ;)  13:55, October 5, 2013 (UTC)

the realms template
I have a few problems with it (e.g. it looks messy)... although I would like to sort of fix it.. I also think we might want to wait until the world gate quests comes out. As they will change definitions and rewrite what planes, planets and universes are.

One of the things that makes it messy (yes, I know I started it :P) is to subscript the races a homeworld is from. the TokHaar, TzHaar, the light beings etc are all native to Gielinor.. that would a be a long list. I think it's better to specify that on the Realms page itself rather than in an infobox. On top of that, like the crossbred hobgoblins (idk the original source, it could be lost but it keeps coming back), the Rammernauts are also 'native to Gielinor' as is Moia and some humans... if you take 'native' a little broader. If you don't, maybe we should think about the TokHaar too... they are made from lava and sacred clay, which the Elder gods take from planet to planet (they could be native to all worlds they co-created, or native to none), maybe only naturally evolved life should be called native..

I believe it was said that the human realm = Earth (which Guthix knew as Terra) and that King Arthur realm named Britain "Rather than a true "realm" as such, it is an island (more properly known as Great Britain) on Earth - and where Jagex is based." The Meeting History quote suggests this too, imo. 12:17, October 6, 2013 (UTC)

qwerty
So... how is your.... Russian, Italian and Hindi? 18:12, October 8, 2013 (UTC)


 * Some people aren't native English speakers and don't know it perfectly. I think it would be nicer to kindly correct people instead of being slightly smug about. Also, there are more types of keyboards than qwerty, some of which might have the e and i closer together. Even if you know the player/editor, and you two are fine with it, it's still not a good idea to do it that way, at least: I think. It doesn't send a nice message to outside people reading it. 20:07, October 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * Not trolling at all, 100% sincere on all points ;-P Spanish keyboard, German keyboard, French keyboard. And there are of course those [shift]+[ctrl] keyboard conversions, often used on semi-qwerty like keyboards. Mostly it will just switch around some characters, but it might even switch letters up like the ones on these Hindi, Hebrew and Japanese keyboards. Etc.. :3 See this website too, it has this example: Dvorak Simplified Keyboard :P 20:38, October 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * Why? Because of that e and i thing. Btw... you said you meant English keyboards over qwerty. But not everybody switches keyboards when they type English... I don't even own several keyboards. Anyway, I agree the discussion got side-tracked right away into trivia, interesting trivia, but trivia nonetheless. My point was about the attitude/use of language. I hope you see my point :3 09:39, October 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * You make it sound like you would completely unable to do any correction unless you  say something unnecessary about it (like the e & the i and their places on your keyboard). You could also say, corrected small spelling mistake... or something like that.  13:20, October 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * Generally, if I think something doesn't matter, I don't pm people and don't pm people for a number of times about the issue. But I'm pretty sure you already realized I thought it mattered. 18:33, October 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * I wish you an awesome time in Rome! Enjoy (probably) learning some more Italian :P
 * But, no, I don't think I will drop the issue if it ever comes back, as I do think it's important to have a nice way to talk to people.  18:42, October 9, 2013 (UTC)

RE:Fusswell wiki
It makes my glorious face stand out better, don't you agree? 17:05, October 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * Also, you have no proof it was me. 17:09, October 9, 2013 (UTC)

RE:Protect
Sure, there you go. 17:11, October 18, 2013 (UTC)

RE:Alvis
Yes, I'm fairly sure Meike does in fact say that during King of the Dwarves. 09:15, October 20, 2013 (UTC)

AoG Quest #3
Hi Fswel,

I couldn't send the quest because The Scrying Pool forums refused to work for my laptop, and after a while trying to fix it, the computer crashed. Luckily, I had a copy of all my files on my flash drive, and I decided to use your talk at RS Wiki instead of The Scrying Pool forums. Anyway, here's the latest and the most complete version of the quest so far.

Armies of Gielinor Quest: Demons of His Past

To begin this quest, you have to travel to Falador, where Fathers Reen and Badden are waiting at Falador Castle. When you meet them, they tell you that they were trying to recruit the White Knights for their cause, but Sir Amik refused due to the lack of evidence of an actual threat. When you ask what that threat is, they explain that if you want to know, you would have to help them, and you get to accept the quest.

After you accept to help them, the monks tell you to follow them to the rendesvouz point at the cellar of Blue Moon Inn at Varrock. They explain that they do not have a permanent head quarters, which means they and their order are in constant move. They also tell that you will not be allowed to the cellar unless you say the correct passphrase, which is 'x and y on the ruins of Saranthium, and their flesh is like glass'.

As you travel to Blue Moon Inn and try to go to the basement of the area, a priestess stops you and tells you not to enter the basement, as it has been reserved for a special meeting. Tell her the passphrase and she'll allow you to go to the basement.

When you go down to the basement, you will be encountered by Fathers Reen and Badden, Grüfeld Bach and a few other people.

After you accept to help them, they explain their cause. The demon slayers tell that Pazuzu, a destructive pyrefiend general was imprisoned into the crust of Gielinor by Guthix himself immediately after his return. Since his imprisonment, Pazuzu has clawed his way from the crust of Gielinor to the center of the Wilderness Volcano, in order to release himself once the Edicts go down. Now that Guthix is dead, Pazuzu can release himself to continue his warmongering and scortching the lands with his pyrelord flames... or so he thought. Due to his imprisonment by the Edicts and the effect of floating for over two millenia in magma, he doesn't have control of most of his powers (or simply the ability to generate immensive amounts of heat and fire aren't useful when trying to escape from magma) and can't do anything but try to manipulate people with his demon magicks and tectonic activity to perform a magic ritual to free him.

However, this didn't go unnoticed by The Holy Order of Demon Slayers, in which Grüfeld Bach, Father Reen and Father Badden belong. They have noticed the disturbance caused by Pazuzu, and are preparing to bring him down. However, since Pazuzu is capable of bringing down entire armies with his firestorms and in close combat capable of impaling people and charring them to death, they need the strongest demon-slaying gear available.

The Leader of the Order, Father X, gives you the task to find tools how to kill Pazuzu from the grave of a strong 3rd Age Saradomisist general and demon slayer Brother Constantius. Problem is, no-one in Gielinor knows where he is buried! Grüfeld points out that Constantius was active at Forinthy, but he started out as a priest in Saranthium, so he suggests you looking the almanacs of the city for any information. When you point out that all remaining from the city are ruins excavated by archaeologists, Grüfeld accomplishes this fact and suggests you contacting the Temple Knights, because the Temple Knights probably transfered most, if not all of the documents from their former base in Saranthium to their current base somewhere in Asgarnia.

After you travel back to Falador and talk to Sir Tiffy Cashien about the lost almanacs of Saranthium, he gives you the permissions to read the tomes, but since you still aren't qualified enough to know the place of Temple Knight Headquarters, he will escort you to the Temple Knight Archives. Once you and Sir Tiffy get to the library, Sir Tiffy will guide you to Savant, real name Elyssa van Lendes, the Senior Mystical Researcher and chief librarian for Temple Knights. After a chat, she will guide you to the oldest section of the archives, and tells you where to look the books for. However, Savant points out that most of the files from Saranthium during the Third Age were burned when Zamorakians managed to wrestle the city momentarily under their command during the God Wars, and warns that the information is very scarse, and you may not find what you were looking. Once you find the tomes, read them.

The books and parchments will reveal you about Saranthium during the God Wars: Saranthium wasn't completely finished when the city was destroyed and there were still few Zarosian remains from Senntisten around. Despite this, the city was very beautiful and similar to modern-day Falador, and was one of the few places on Gielinor where things were at least somewhat peaceful. The citizens were quite smug, nationalistic and fanatically Saradomistic and bragged that Zamorakians would never dare attack them, and would be easily defeated if they tried.

You can quess what happened next. Zamorakian forces started to gather in Hallowwalian side of the Lake Salve, building boats and warships, as if they were preparing for an invasion. The city leaders had taken this into action and made orders to increase the defences on the docks and the western part of the city. However, when most of the city's defensive forces were concentrated to the eastern section of the town, leaving the western area controlled by Saradominists vulnerable, the city was infiltrated by a small Zamorakian guerilla group from the western side, consisting of pyrefiends and the leader and namesake of the organization, Pazuzu. With their fire-based powers, Pazuzu set the city in flames in seconds, causing hysteria and panic amongst Saradominists, making it easy for Zamorakian navy to land to the city and take out the rest of the Saradominist armed forces. Plenty of civilians escaped the ensuing battle to the east, but just as many were killed either by the flames or the Zamorakian army.

The Temple Knight report from the incident reveals that almost all armed forces of Saranthium were wiped out with attack, and the remaining soldiers and guardsmen are scattered, unorganized and contantly hunted down by Zamorakians like wild game. Approximately half of the citys population was killed thanks to Pazuzu, and out of the remaining half, most escaped to the western woodslands and had formed some refugee camps. Temple Knights suffered terrible damages as well, however the leader of the Temple Knights and many higher ranking partisans survived, as well as over half of the lower ranking Templars. Surviving Temple Knights contacted the leaders of Saradomin's armies, and from the available resources, a liberation forces were formed in order to recapture the city. A note amongst the books mentions that a few the Temple Knight proselytes accompanied by a priest called Constantius survived from the battle and report shows that they fought Pazuzu, at least for a moment, although proselytes died later from the horrible burns they recieved, leaving Constantius as the only survivor. However, the book doesn't tell where he ventured from there.

Since the sources from Saranthium do not tell anything useful about Constantius' grave, you have to ask Savant for more information about Constantius. Savant tells you everything she found out about Constantius: Constantius was born in Saranthium and lived most of his life as a cleric with connections to Temple Knights (similar to Akrisae). After he survived from the Invasion of Saranthium and an encounter with Pazuzu, Constantius received special training in Saradomin's Holy Army and received orders to hunt and destroy important Zamorakians, such as military leaders, priests, powerful combatants, and Pazuzu. Over the time, he also became the leader of elite warpriests who later became the founders of the The Holy Order of Demon Slayers, which back then didn't mean demon slayers, but the slayers of everything unnatural and evil. From there he ultimately rose to become a general, while staying as an active assassin and demon slayer behind the scenes. His last known location was at eastern Forinthy, hunting for Pazuzu and his pyrefiend battalion named the Pazuzu. He presumably died shortly after Third Age ended, but his graves place is unknown.

When you ask about Pazuzu, you will be revealed more information about the backstory of Pazuzu. Not much is known from his past before the God Wars, but when he showed up the first time in the Battle of Lassar, he created a firestorm that destroyed the entire fortress and Zarosians inside it. While he was extremely strong pyromancer, he was weak both physically and mentally, which meant he was a pushover and very unassertive, which meant that he was commanded by others to do their dirty work. He was active in the area what we nowadays know as Asgarnia, Misthalin and Wilderness, and he disappeared during the Third Age. There are multiple stories of his fate: some say Constantius killed him, others say the earth swallowed him when he burned down a sacred grove of Guthix, and some say the Edicts of Guthix banished him to another dimension.

So far, the Archives haven't given a single hint about the whereabouts of the Constantius' resting place. Savant suggests that you should pay a visit to Abbey of St. Elspeth Citharede, as the libraries of the abbey contain all the information there is about Saradominist saints, including Constantius. As you travel to the Abbey, there is a nun waiting for you. She introduces herself as Sire, the librarian of the Abbey of St. Elspeth Citharede. She tells you that she was contacted by one of the higher-ranking Demon Slayers to search for information about Saint Constantius' burial place. She tells you that she found the information, but you need to meet her at Al Kharid Gate: she doesn't deem the Abbey safe enough after all the murders that have happened, and has brought the books with her to the meeting place, as the books are only allowed to be read by the members of the Abbey and she's afraid that Abbess Benita would expel her from the Abbey if she is caught revealing the information of the books.

As you follow Sire through Al-Kharid to a house north of Al-Kharid where you a supposed to meet, a cutscene starts: as you step inside the house, the place is filled with Chaos Monks and Chaos Druids, and Sire is revealed to truly be a Chaos Druid. Ikadia will be there if you didn't kill her in Birthright of the Dwarves, and most of the other druids there will be runner-ups from the competition.

Sire states that she and the others do not intend to do anything hasty, and is here with other important chaos druids and chaos monks just to negotiate with you, as they both need each others help to achieve their goals: you need the chaos druids' books to locate Constantius' grave, and chaos druids needs you to free Zebub, an extremely powerful Zamorakian demon general from his prison under Entrana.

According to Sire, Zamorakians are viewed negatively because of the actions of a few, and she plans to change this image, which is very important now that Zamorak lost the Battle of Lumbridge and is wounded, and thus he needs all the support from the masses he can get. She states that Zamorakians need to be put under control of a strong leader, and Zebub is the right person for this task: he is just, polite and merciful, has never killed anyone unless they deserved it (and even those times can be counted with one hand), follows a strict moral code and was respected by many for being capable of keeping the bad apples in check. Sire also states that if you do not help them, they are not going to help you and will burn the books, so ultimately, you have to help them. Sire informs you that she has sent some chaos druids to the Entrana Dungeon, and they will assist you with your task once you get there.

As you arrive to the Entrana Dungeon, you notice that zombies and demons are commanned by chaos druids to clear a cave-in from the door that is the entrance to Zebub's prison. (Entrana Dungeon is graphically updated, so it no longer looks like a cave system, but has somewhat similar style to Saradominist Crypt from Death of Chivalry, Daemonheim Dungeons and the Monastery of Ascension.) The chaos druids explain that the dungeon used to be an underground part of the old monastery of Entrana that was destroyed when a necromancer by the name of Incommodo infiltrated to Entrana and tried to free Zebub, but the only thing he managed to do was to destroy the old monastery of Entrana. The chaos druids have access to your bank, allowing you to get yourself everything you might need for combat. Once you are ready, enter the door.

Surface: Ruins of the old church, "Old Entrana".

The first area of the dungeon is the underground section of the 'Old Entrana' church/monastery. The area is almost completely in ruins and has plenty of cave-ins. It is also infested with zombie monks and demons from the previous assault tried by Incommodo. You have to navigate through the basement of the monastery to find the entrance to the second area of the dungeon.

The second area of the dungeon is Dungeoneering or Underground Pass-like maze filled with spiritual guardians, traps and puzzles. The whole area is intended to be failsafe and designed as a seal to prevent intruders, yet there are plenty of signs that Incommodo crashed his way through the maze. In order to access to the third area, you need to find keys to open the grand door in the end of the maze.

The third area of the dungeon is a vast area filled with nothing but spiritual warriors, traps, barricades exc., which makes it very apparent that the area is designed to solely stop any intruders who try to access to the last area.

At the beginning of the area, you can find a dried corpes with ornamental robes and a bone mask: the dead corpse of Incommodo. As you touch his corpse for his robes, he wakes up and as you freak out and try to kill him, he calms you down and tells you that thanks to his mastery over necromancery, he has become a lich. He advices you how to access to the final area, but can't participate himself because he would be destroyed fairly quickly, and thus teleports away.

The final area is a vast cave with Zebub prisoned in a platform not connected to the door, meaning that the only truly viable option to access Zebub would be teleportation and only Saradomin can teleport to the platform. However, the statues around the cave could be used as a parkour rote to jump to the platform, or alternatively you could just break one and use it as a bridge. However, Zebub is still imprisoned by three wards. The first ward requires you to defeat elite spiritual warriors that guard him. The second ward requires you to complete a memory puzzle that breaks the second ward. The final ward, the divine ward, requires Saradomin to open it, but since you are immune to god magic, you can just break through the final ward that keep him at bay and cut the chains that bind him to the platform from his wings.

Once Zebub is freed, he thanks you for your efforts, but tells to you that his freedom has been noticed, and asks you to protect him from the spiritual warriors until he has regained enough of his powers to teleport away with. You have to protect Zebub from waves of spiritual warriors like you protected Juna in the World Wakes for 5 minutes, after which he will teleport with you to the ruins of Uzer. There you are met with the chaos druids who hurried to meet with Zebub. Zebub also shrinks down from his giant form to a more humanoid form similar to Mazchna.

Zebub allows you to ask questions about him, through which he reveals his backstory. He tells that he was the best strategist amongst Zaros' generals, which alongside his impressive physical strength and strong leadership made him a valuable ally to Zamorak when he rebelled against the Empty Lord.

At one point of the God Wars, Zebub conquered the entire modern-day Misthalin and Asgarnia from Saradomin after he had conquered them from Zaros and the battles between Saradominists and Zamorakians began. He tells that his downfall was his attempt to destroy Entrana, and while he almost succeeded in it, Saradomin decided to swallow his pride, changed the battle plans he had designed and and personally fought Zebub. While Zebub was one of the strongest mortals to have ever existed, he wasn't anywhere nearly strong enough to defeat Saradomin, but likewise Saradomin wasn't capable of defeating the overly-prepared Zebub. However, Zebub hadn't taken to notion that  With Zebub captured and most of the Zamorakian army destroyed, Saradomin prisoned him under Entrana to use him as an unwilling advisor to take down rest of the Zamorakians.

After you get back to Sire, she will give you the books about Constantius, and as you read them, you point out at Sire that at first glance they contain nothing useful information. Sire tells you that the answer is hidden deeper in the book, after which she, other Chaos Druids and Zebub teleport away to prepare for the release of Pazuzu.

At this point, the plot cuts.

Once you travel to xxx and dig to find his grave, you find yourself in a crypt with coffins filled with strange liquid. Each coffin has a body that seems like it is still alive. A preserved tome found in the crypt tells that when the war ended and Pazuzu was banished, Constantius decided that he couldn't continue his crusade against Zamorakian threat and Pazuzu without special arrangements. Since he knows that he or any of the Third Age demon slayers would not live to see Pazuzu return back to the surface, they decided that they would have to wait. He and his few selected members of the demon hunting priests created a crypt, where they would perform a ritual suicide, while the rest would stay behind and keep the organization alive. The ritual suicide allowed their corpses to be preserved in the liquid coffins, making it extremely easy to bring them back to life once Pazuzu is back. Basically, the crypt is a one-way time machine.

However, the tome notes that while the body of Constantius is well preserved and a suitable necromancy spell or the legendary 'Horn of the Lifegiver' would allow him and the other demon slayers to come back to life, there is one problem. The liquid that is used to preserve him has soaken to him, and if he'd be revived in this state, he wouldn't live very long or come back as an undead. The tome doesn't say what you need to do to drain the liquid from Constantius' corpse, as the writing on the page that details it has worn away. As you begin to search the coffins for clues, you come across a reference to a bizarre location that you haven't heard of. You begin to think to yourself that Savant might know something about it.

As you travel to Falador and tell what you know so far to Sir Tiffy, he is very pleased about your findings and will inform other Saradominist factions about this shortly, but when he asks about how you find them, you have an option to tell the truth and inform him about the fact you released Zebub, or 'tell the abridged truth' and claim that you discovered the information from the books at Cithadere Abbey books. Either way, Sir Tiffy will eventually discover the truth during the quest but understands the reasons behind it and doesn't hate you for what you did. In fact, he is even pleased that Zebub is free, so he can keep the more radical Zamorakians at bay.

As you are escorted to Teple Knight HQ, Temple Knights notice something and knock you out. Once you wake up in the Temple Knight HQ, Sir Tiffy tells that you were cast over a detection spell, probably by Chaos Druids or by a rogue Dark Mage, in order to find the Temple Knight HQ. Temple Knights had devices that would detect such spells and they performed a counter spell to allow you to access the building.

As you talk to Savant about your discovery, she tells that the name refers to a fortress west from the entrance of Mahjarrat Ritual Site Caverns and Ghorrock. Savant tells you also that the fortress was made by the members of a long dead race that used to have fortresses in the northern areas of the world. She tells that the race were the ones who created the coffins in the first place, and thus were only ones that knew how to cleanse the body from the liquid. She recommends you to go there to find some clues.

As you travel to the fortress via the canoe at Fremennik Hunter Area, you will discover that the main entrance to the fortress is blocked by snow and ice, so you need to break in another way. Once you get inside the fortress, it appears to be completely empty, except for a strange plinth at the center of the bottom floor. In order to activate the plinth, you need complete puzzles that involves you collecting keystone fragments that are hidden around the fortress across various puzzles that I am not going for much detail here. Once you have collected all the fragments, combined to a repaired keystone and used it to plinth, a wraith appears. It grants you access to their memories.

The wraith reveals that its race was extremely advanced one, and their knowledge was hungered by the gods, and ultimately lead to their doom, when a god started a war against them in order to obtain the information they held. The other fortresses the race held fell and this fortress is the last remaining one. The wraith was a strong mage an important member of their society, if not their leader, and after a negotiation with another race, they decided that the members of that race would take all they held their information in to a safe place: that piece of information is artificially blurred, in order to protect the location of the books and who took the books and where. The wraith decided that even when the tomes are safe, the god would capture the other members of its race and torture the information out of them, so it and other leaders decided to perform the strongest of their spells: a spell that would wipe their races mind, turning them into mindless, ravaging animals, while killing members of other species. While the others were busy performing the spell, the wraith performed a spell similar to what Tower Wizards accidentally performed, and turned himself into a wraith, and ordered the other mages to seal him into the plinth and hide the pieces that activate the plint inside the fortress, so that there would be at least something that would remain of their race.

After all this, you ask about the coffins at Constantius' crypt. The wraith mentions that the coffins originally contained terminally ill members of their race that could be healed in the future as their medical knowledge increased, but Constantius and the demon slayers must've found the coffins and removed the old corpses so that they could have a chance to live in the future. The wraith tells that the fluid is quite simple to soak from the body and reveals you how to do so. You get the information, but once you exit the Fortress through the main port that was cleared when the plinth was completed, you notice that the members of the dead race that were turned into animals didn't quite face extinction: instead, they became mindless animals, that are tough to kill. Once the quest is complete, you can come back to fight these monsters for new rewards.

When you go back to Sir Tiffy Cashien to tell about your progress, you notice that he is not here, and there is a Temple Knight waiting for you in his place. THe knight tells you that the Demon Slayers and the Temple Knights are already waiting in the crypt. He asks you whether you want to be teleported to the crypt or do you want to walk there.

Once you get back to the crypt, you notice that the Saradominists consisting of the Holy Order of the Demon Slayers and a few Temple Knights including Sir Tiffy are already waiting in the crypt. Depending on your choises during the Death of Chivalry, either Sir Owen or Saradomin is there as well, with the Wand of Resurrection. Saradomin/Owen hands you the wand and as you first cleanse Constantius' body from the liquid and then zap him with the Wand of Resurrection, you bring Constantius back to life.

Now that Constantius is alive after two millennia, you explain quickly what has happened when he was dead, and why he was resurrected. Constantius also asks you to revive the rest of the Demon Slayers.

This is where the plot cuts again.

When you get to Edgeville, you notice that the Saradominists have formed an army fairly quickly, and Saradominists are waiting for you to join them. Take your best combat gear and all the supplies you might need for multiple battles, and agree to join them.

The entire segment inside Wilderness is instanced, so you do not need to worry about pkers, and if you die here, your grave will be near Edgeville loadstone.

While travelling in Wilderness amongst Saradominists, you will also meet decimated Ex-Guthixian/Godless forces, consisting of Kara-Meir, Ux, guerilla fighters from different races, Quercus and moss giants, who intended to defeat Pazuzu themselves by releasing him and killing him when he was weak, but they failed when Zamorakians arrived to the volcano and foiled their plans. They join with you and Saradominists since their chances of winning became minimal. Armadylians join as well, consisting of Kree'Arra, his aviantese and Guardians of Armadyl who want to stop Pazuzu from reigning damage and to be judged by his warcrimes in court by Armadyl. Saradominsts/Armadylean Warbands join as well for your cause, though they are here just because of faith, wealth and power.

As you procede in the Wilderness, you will have to face different enemy groups, each with different motives. Dark Warriors want to release Pazuzu in order to use him to attack against their enemies, the White Knights and the Temple Knights at Asgarnia, and to become stronger than their rivals, the Black Knights. Zamorak Magical Institute and Dagon'hai want to learn from Pazuzu about the arcane secrets this demon knows, and afterwards persuade him to assault Varrock and to finish what Delrith was tasked for: burning the town to ground zero. Zamorakian Warband bandits want to use Pazuzu to gain more power and to wipe other Bandit Warbands out of existance and take complete dominance of the Wilderness. After you defeat a fixed amount of Zamorakians, they will retreat towards Wilderness Volcano.

Ultimately, the forces meet at the Wilderness Volcano after multiple battles against Zamorakians during the way there, where the Zamorakians are already waiting: they have formed a massive army using the creatures of the Wilderness, and are good way of releasing Pazuzu. This leads to the final battle, in which the player is forced to pick a side: Zamorakians who want to resurrect Pazuzu, or Sara/Arma/Godless pact who want to kill Pazuzu. As the battle continues, Zarosians join as well, and the pact between Saradominists, Armadylians and The Godless start to break, ultimately leading to a huge, uncontrolled battle with multiple forces fighting over Pazuzu, forcing the player to pick from one of the five factions.

The battle ends with Pazuzu being resurrected no matter what side player chooses, but instead of joining with K'ril Tsutsaroth and the rest of the Zamorakians, Pazuzu splits K'ril's mask in half and brings him and his bodyguards down in seconds, in melee no less, showing that he has become incredibly powerful.

He explains that while trapped in magma, Pazuzu has lost his faith in Zamorak after waiting for Zamorak to free him from his molten prison for centuries while in horrible pains. Instead, he decided to get back to Gielinor on his own, clawing himself slowly through magma until he made it to the edges of the surface.

After this, Pazuzu demonstrates his power even further by creating an army of his own, consisting of strange elementals made of lava and fire. Almost all of the Zamorakians, excluding K'ril, his bodyguards and the Zamorakian Mahjarrat, switch sides and join with Pazuzus' forces. Pazuzu claims that his dream has been to set Gielinor in flames ever since he arrived at Second Age, and that he won't stop until the world is nothing but ashes.

However, right after Pazuzu finishes his dramatic speech, Zebub arrives with the Chaos Druids, Chaos Monks and Black Knights and calls for attention. Seeing Zebub, most of the old creatures who knew Zebub and all of the Zamorakians who switched sides become restless, as he is the most respected demon general amongst Zamorakians and is treated by them as the ultimate authority figure second only to Zamorak himself. Zebub tells Pazuzu to stop his childish rebellion and to join with Zamorakians. Zebub also tells to the Zamorakians who have joined with Pazuzu that he allows them to join with them one more time and fight for Zamorak as they are supposed to, otherwise they will be deemed traitors and will be punished as such. All of a sudden, Zamorakians start walking back to their side and Pazuzu is left alone with his fire creatures. Even more surprisingly, Pazuzu apparently gives up with his revolution and starts to walk towards Zamorakians as well, but before he reaches them, Constantinus charges at Pazuzu, knocks him down and starts wildly smiting him down with his mace, yelling insults and screaming at him, and seemingly kills Pazuzu.

When Constantius rises, other notable characters, including Zebub and the player shockingly stare at him. Constantius suggests leaving the volcano as walks away from Pazuzu's bruised corpse towards Saradominists. However, as he talks, Pazuzu is seen rising and growing larger on the background. When Constantius realizes something is wrong and looks again at Pazuzu, he has grown at the size of K'ril Tsutsaroth. Enraged, Pazuzu lashes his claw at Constantius, swinging him meters away. Zebub then charges at Pazuzu and engages in battle with him, but he is defeated quickly as well. When Pazuzu is about to kill Zebub, the other forces fire a volley of arrows and spells at Pazuzu, to which he responds by throwing Zebub at the other forces. It is this point where you engage in battle with Pazuzu.

Final Boss Battle: Pazuzu

Pazuzu is extremely challenging to fight. He can attack using melee, magic and ranged, and doesn't have a weakness. Pazuzu has multiple special abilities.

While fighting Pazuzu, a red bar starts to fill at the top part of the screen. This is his 'enrage meter'. When he isn't very angry, he will only use his normal attacks and his max hit is somewhat low. As you deal damage to Pazuzu, he will get more and more angry: critical hits increase anger faster than normal hits. As Pazuzu gets angrier, his max hit increases and he starts to use more special abilities, which drain his anger. If these special attacks backfire, his anger rises more than he used to the attack. This also works the other way around: if you take a lot of damage from Pazuzu and his special attacks work against you, his anger decreases and he will use less special abilities.


 * During the entire battle, he can spawn multiple lava vents that deal rapid damage to you. However, they do not damage Pazuzu, but increase his power when he is near them.


 * He can create a 7x7 field of fire that can only be evaded by using Surge, Escape or Barge.


 * If his anger reaches 50% and you are on a melee distance, he will try to stab you with his claws. The attack will take as long to initiate as Snipe and can be evaded by moving away from melee distance, but if you get hit, you will be dealt rapid damage every second, which will in practice be a one-hit KO.


 * If his anger reaches 100%, he will prepare his strongest attack, a powerful hellfire spell that he uses to incenerate entire armies. If not protected against, it will kill you regardless of the effects of Immortality/RoL/Phoenix necklace. Even with the proper protection, it will still cause nearly 50% damage to your maximum lifepoints, which can kill you instantly unless you have prepared well. After that attack, his anger will be drained to 75%.

Some concepts for the bossfight

Stun        Stat drain

Knockback    (burns lower stats)

Prevents running

Casts a huge aoe attack thatt deals thousands hp of dmg -> Use movement abilities

Can spawn lava vents that deal damage near them -> Move out of them

Can cast 'army-destroying attack' similar to Delrith -> Take protection

Can perform his version of Detonate/Luminescen Icefiend spec -> Run

Stab attack that can easily be 1-hit KO -> Move away from melee distance when this happens

Enrage meter: as the battle proceeds, a meter above Pazuzu's head starts to rise. As Pazuzu's anger increases, so does his damage and the frequancy of the special attacks. When the meter is 100%, he performs his army-destroying attack.

Basic attacks: Lava/fire spell magic attack, burning melee attack & hot stone shard ranged attack

Advancing flame wall of doom like that of QBD and Char

Spawns fire minions

What happens to Pazuzu after his defeat is not sure. Maybe it's like in the Void Stares Back, in which you can choose from different punishments; or maybe a god will make the final blow; maybe Zamorak will convince Pazuzu to join his forces once again; or Pazuzu will be captured by a late arrival (Sliske, for example). Anyway, he is no longer uncontrolled after his defeat, and you'll be rewarded from you efforts. Your decitions during the quest would affect the future gameplay in a way or another.

At the end of the quest, after claiming the rewards, there is a humorous stinger cutscene after you claim the rewards. The player character starts to wonder where the Bandosians were for the whole time seeing that most of the other God factions were involved: the scene cuts to Wilderness where General Graardor and the Bandosian army berserk to the battlefield, while quickly noting that the battle had ended already. Begrungingly, the group starts their trek back to God Wars Dungeon, wondering why they didn't teleport there in the first place and instead decided to march all the way through the Wilderness.

Core aims:


 * Bringing 'dead' characters from Armies of Gielinor back and telling their stories


 * Creating an old-school type of quest with a similar epic feeling as While Guthix Sleeps: lots of travelling, puzzles, combat and lore


 * Bringing quest content to Wilderness


 * Deconstructing the usual 'Saradominists good, Zamorakians evil' setting the game takes by taking the over-arching theme of 'nothing is how it seems to be':

- Constantius seems to be a kind, just and bold general based on the books you read, but when you get to meet him, he is very cruel and rude, and it is revealed Saradominists just made him look good.

- Zebub is implied to me a stereotypical mindless Zamorakian demon, but as you get to know him, he turn out to be very kind and nice person.

- Pazuzu isn't as threating force as first assumed, but actually is a pushover and is commanded around by even people weaker than him.

-In general, Constantius and Zebub look like stereotypical followers of their gods, but in reality they would fit better to the opposite side.

- Arms-banning, pasifistic Entrana has a prison-complex that is filled with undead wardens armed to the teeth and is designed to keep its only prisoner at bay

Secondary aims:


 * Filling the area north of Trollheim Mountain


 * Revealing more about the Demon Slayer order


 * Puzzles


 * Epic battle in Wilderness

Main characters briefly


 * Constantius: A Saradominist monk-general who really is cruel and sadistic leader, more fitting as a Zamorakian, but is made to look like a hero due to Saradominist propaganda. May turn out to be the real antagonist of the quest instead of Pazuzu.


 * Zebub: A demon general of Zamorak who really is noble and just, more fitting as a Saradominist but who is forgotten over time and even then is demonized and made to look evil by Saradominists.


 * Pazuzu: A pyrefiend pyromancer. He is a pushover and is abused and commanded by others to do their dirty work due to this.

Stuff I want to expand on:

(If possible, I'd really appretiate help with these ones)


 * What Zarosians want from Pazuzu


 * Pazuzu melting the God Wars Dungeon by manipulating the magma currents and the volcanic activity underneath Trollheim.


 * The four areas of the ruined church of Entrana (the overground ruins and 3 underground areas) should perhaps have an underlaying theme, like the four elements of humans (Mind, body, blood and soul OR body, blood, soul and spirit).


 * I want the pacifistic, technologically advanced scholar race to which the Wraith belongs to have the element of 'nothing is how it seems to be' included. Perhaps they weren't really that pasifistic and were developing weapons of mass destruction and sold weapon plans to the highest bidder?


 * The first plot cut between meeting Zamorakians at Uzer and entering the crypt of Constantius should make some sort of sense. I think the books from Abbey should have some importance but the actual breakthrough should be from another source of information.


 * The second plot cut between Constantius' revival and the final showdown at the Wilderness should cover forming the army of Saradominists and showing that Constantius isn't as holy as he has been impled to be.


 * The final part of the quest feels kind of hard to resolve. How could I make a reasonable ending? I have considered Constantius to be more antagonistic, so perhaps at the end of the quest he lets his true colours to bloom.

AquaMage2459 (talk) 11:29, October 21, 2013 (UTC)AquaMage2459

Dwarrows
http://images.wikia.com/fusswell/images/7/71/Medwin_laughing.png http://images.wikia.com/fusswell/images/c/c8/Obert_laughing.png http://images.wikia.com/fusswell/images/4/44/Baden_laughing.png http://images.wikia.com/fusswell/images/e/e3/Drorkar_laughing.png http://images.wikia.com/fusswell/images/0/0a/Shocked_bordiss.png http://images.wikia.com/fusswell/images/b/b8/Glosur_laughing.png http://images.wikia.com/fusswell/images/0/01/Drunken_dwarf_laughing_chathead.png http://images.wikia.com/fusswell/images/d/dd/Donnie_laughing.png

Also..

http://images.wikia.com/fusswell/images/1/1d/Gauss_chathead.png

09:34, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

RE: Scroll from Making History
Ouch...

Well...The only thing I can think of that would still make it fit, even with that...

Would be...

If the +years numbers are in correlation to the years after the city of Ardougne was founded (which would be sometime after the year 7 of the 5th age as that's when they defeated Hazeel)

I know the scroll says "start of 5th age", but even then 7 years is 7 years after the start of the 5th age, and the outpost was built FOR Ardougne, so it obviously wouldn't have been built before it.

In contrast, if we do allow it to think this way, then we would know the exact year that the city of Ardougne was made after the defeat of Hazeel.

Would that work?

Robo Hobo (talk) 19:14, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

RE:Bandos
lol, you're quite funny, you know that? "it's not edit warring if you're removing (good-faith) vandalism ", if that's so.. hen, I hereby declare your edits also vandalism (good-faith or not, idc). Ah great! Now we're back from where we're started.

See you have a few options: Feel welcome o do all of them... and, there may well be more options. But regardless of these: stop complaining with hose false arguments (you're just vandalizing) that can just as easily be used against yourself with the same degree of evidence.
 * Find a source that 'proofs' that you're correct, like you demand other to do to.
 * Discuss the source material that I have provided.
 * Accept my edit and do nothing else (no revert/undo) or say I'm right.

Btw, as a minor point: Hitler could well have had a sense of humour... which would no make him less evil, it would just be a further description of his... character/person. Also ha line of reasoning gets you nowhere at all. Besides... maybe, stuck in your own self-righteousness. 07:09, October 25, 2013 (UTC)


 * As I said: You do not have to reply, just stop edit warring and accusing other (in this case me) of vandalism.

18:48, October 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) As for your first point, I think it's important to discriminate between two things: having a sense of humour (and/or being humourous), which I said Bandos is capable of, and mere enjoyment, fun, or pleasure (e.g. on the expense of others, like sadists do) . They might seem similar on first sight, but are actually quite different concepts.
 * 2) On the point of grudges, the part of the sentence you contest is "holds no grudges to people that defeat him in a fight, unlike other gods might". Guthix did not beat him in a fight as such, he banished him, while the player and Zanik gave him a fight (this is not true due to MPD, this is decreed by Mod Osborne, again see: @ ±31:30 of the world gate podcast, also: Bandos' humour @ ±34:30 of the world gate podcast; Bandos' honesty @ ±34:30 & ±36:00 of the world gate podcast).
 * 3) About the sadist, yes: that could have been worded better.


 * 1. So all you say is "...yeah, that's what Osborne meant..." and I just have to accept that because you think it is? Do you not at all acknowledge that there is a difference in enjoyment and a sense of humour??


 * 2. The point about the grudge I made has NOTHING to do with Graardor - I didn't even mention him. I referenced Osborne in a podcast (he said nothing about Bandos wanting revenge, he talks about Bandos wanting a rematch - that's TOTALLY different.). I'm getting the strong feeling you haven't even bothered to listen to the stuff I cited. If that's true.. then why do you even bother discussing with me, start your own fan-page, don't clutter this wikia wish your lore-wishes.. :( -- 19:16, October 25, 2013 (UTC)

I agree with your take on the grudge, that would probably be a better wording (except for the 'destroy', that's not a necessary addition). 10:53, October 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * No. In Obsorne's words, that I'll paraphrase again: Bandos has a sense of humour (he can crack a good joke) and he also draws pleasure from seeing people fight (wars or not) and likely suffer while doing it (which you can describe as sadistic). Those are very distinct attributes to his personality. That's all.
 * Sure...And Saradomin is the God of Order, Wisdom, Pleasantry etc... surely he never killed any Naragi, surely he was never un-pleasant and blasted me aside for a wand to resurrect... I agree.. let's ignore stuff that we don't like. Does every character, or person for that matter, in your mind only have one trait? It's either: god of war with nothing else. Or Yelp with humour and nothing else, Osborne with only a big jaw and nothing else. Really wake up. It's not a wild idea that gods can have more than one character trait. 13:00, October 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * So now you want to raise the bar even higher??? He mustn't only have a sense of humour (which could mean as little as only recognizing and/or laughing about some other person's joke),  he must tell good jokes too?? If that's the bar, give me a few examples where Saradomin 'really made stuff orderly', all I've seen of him recently was a chaotic and bloody battle with Zamorak, his bad temper, and self-righteousness. Yet, you are perfectly fine to accept Saradomin is the god of order amongst other things, but Bandos.. not that's too close to your heart to change. 13:38, October 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Instead of keep raising the bar and trying to under mine arguments of others, come up with an argument of yourself - saying: "nah, it's not true", is not an argument.  13:39, October 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * You're being absurd... they said, literally, Bandos has a sense of humour. LITERALLY. Why don't you accept that, while you do accept the Challem answer later? You're just cherry picking. If not, show a mroe recent source where they state Bandos does NOT have a sense of humour. If you can't accept you're just wrong and incapable of demonstrating the truth of what you're claiming to know. 15:50, October 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Explain to me how Ben's point ("Bandos has a good sense of humour and enjoys mocking gods that he perceives as weaker than himself, such as Icthlarin.") is so radically different from mine ("It is also said he has a sense of humour"), that causes you to not be able to agree with it to the slightest degree. Because to may they seem very similar, but to you Ben's point seems fine, whereas you seem to think that, I would, in some way, define Bandos not as the God of War but as the God of Fun. 12:20, October 28, 2013 (UTC)

GU
You might want to use this blooveld from GWD

http://i.imgur.com/BhvGgo4.png

-- 20:00, October 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Hellhounds have no change. But hobgoblins do.

http://i.imgur.com/akPihMy.png http://i.imgur.com/0YaAHQb.png http://i.imgur.com/SwFwoPk.png

-- 19:04, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

Zamorak tier
I'm pretty sure they changed it (just like they changed Saradomin's tier). It's clearly said during the live stream that Armadyl, Bandos, Skargaroth and Tuska belong to tier 4, along with Saradomin and Zamorak before the Battle of Lumbridge. After BoL Saradomin moved up a tier, Zamorak moved down one. You can watch it yourself here (http://www.twitch.tv/runescape/b/475834622), at 01:11:25. 19:23, November 2, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes, read this above: they changd his tier. Why do you keep reverting my edit? It makes no sense at all... 12:10, November 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * Also.. if you see that I keep changing things and in between you change things again. I think it would be a better idea to go to my talk page and talk to me there, I missed a couple of your edits, because I was too busy with working on the Zamorak and Saradomin pages. Just wait until I'm done, and then kindly ask me why I did stuff and tell me why you think I was wrong to do so. Instead od calling me a vandal and adding exclaimation marks - doesn't relly come off well without intonation of voice. E.g.: it can look like you're angry with me. Please refrain from doing that. I already see you as someone with a temper, don't give me more reason to think that feeling is correct :( Let's be friendly towards eachother :3   12:15, November 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * If you have a disagreement over the format of Zamorak's tier, then please take it to either the discussion page or to the talk page of the person you're disagreeing with. What you do not do is revert back to your version regardless of the state of the discussion. Edit warring is not productive to the wiki whatsoever 12:21, November 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * So why not talk about it on his page rather than get into a revert war with him? 12:35, November 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * About the issue: the template clearly states the size of the character: standard or giant, not Pre-Battle of Lumbridge and Post-Battle of Lumbridge. This means, in my eyes, that your point is not true, yes, Zamorak is seen as a giant during BoL, but he can change his size regardless of him Battling in Lumbridge or not. Also, your point about Guthix "post-death tier" does not really seem like a proper analogy (partly for the reason above)
 * As for your last point, I'm sorry if I wasn't clear: Please don't mind the spelling errors (I'm sure you understand regardless), I'm quite dyslectic, I'm sure you can sympathize.  12:58, November 3, 2013 (UTC)

True: his giant form was seen at BoL. Most likely true: he can no longer take that specific size because he dropped a tier. False: that size was only possible (or 'actually very specific', as you said) during BoL. See this too, for another suggestion ;) 14:23, November 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * You seem to assume that he never took the giant form before. You make it sound like his giant form was only available for Zamorak if all the conditions were the same way as it was at the BoL. He could well have had this form before, in the 1st Gielinorian God Wars. That size is NOT tied to doing a BoL, it's tied to one's Godhood Tier. Anyway, the only thing that's different from Zamorak at BoL and when he's not at BoL is the kamehameha and the size. We could just as well add the BoL image to the gallery along with the statue form and the Memory form, and use the MPD form as his normal form... that's where he looks the best anyway: the most neutral. -- 14:52, November 3, 2013 (UTC)

You are again incorrect.-- 15:35, November 3, 2013 (UTC) I told you this many times. If I give a source, and you can't believe it... LOOK AT THE SOURCE. So: listen to the RuneFest livestream... they clearly changed their mind: Sara & Zammy were T4 before BoL, after BoL Zammy = T5, Sara = T3. Before they were both said to be T3... apparently they changed their mind.
 * 1) Accept it and move on,
 * 2) Get a more recent source that disputes it,
 * 3) Don't accept it, but don't introduce the error in this wikia. Feel free to add it to some new sort of fan-wiki, like Fswe1Scape., though. 16:08, November 3, 2013 (UTC)


 * Please stop making a complete fool out of yourself and actually read what I have written, okay?
 * Something I have asked you to do too, but only in kinder words. You may find I am the one responding to you in more detail than you take the trouble to respond to me. I agree with all content claims you made. However, the things you draw from that later do not follow that easily - the former are plain facts, what follows is mostly determined by values.
 * Bandos was T4 before TCC and T3 after, but we still mention his previous tier along side his current tier on the God infobox. I see your point. Zamorak's giant form was while T4. Then you conclude: that picture = T4, hence only mention T4 stuff. But for me that's waaay too specific. I don't think it's very helpful to make a new addition to the switch template each time there's a new image; new information; a change in tier; or death for that matter. I think it's much better to just mentioned the tiers (past & present) on the infoboxes, preferably with as few switches and images as possible. Guthix has three switches: God, Naragi, Human. Zamorak has two: God, God (one memory, one at BoL, we could even add MPD). We're also not making separate infoboxes for Bandos and Saradomin when they change tier, only when their appearances change (Saradomin is canonical change, Bandos is not canonical).
 * I don't need a response that boils down to "No, it's not X - it's X, so go away."
 * I think you should say: "No, it's not X - it's Y, so go away.", otherwise it doesn't make sense. 10:42, November 4, 2013 (UTC)
 * No it's not. Guthix is dead and still has his pre-death tier mentioned. Skargaroth has an image of him dead, Guthix had one too but was removed. Saradomin's post BoL tier is still mentioned at his 5th age form. I wasn't aware of that policy., ty for telling me. But I don't think it's that useful to begin with. It can only confuse. Sure the giant form can only be when T4, but there's no time line in those switch templates. Unless you include it in the labels, like: after killing Zaros, after SoJ, pre-BoL, post-BoL, etc. but that's needlessly creating more and more. We can just as well mention that in the tiers section. 18:48, November 4, 2013 (UTC)

WE2
Do these edits meet with your approval? 17:57, November 4, 2013 (UTC)

Affiliated Items
I noticed that on god pages, you were the one that removed some/all of the "Affiliated Items" section. I noticed there are some redirect pages that point to the now-removed sections, namely
 * Saradomin items / Saradomin item
 * Zamorak items / Zamorak item
 * Bandos items / Bandos item
 * Armadyl items
 * Zaros items

I suspect these were created for easy linking to God War Dungeon god affiliated items, so other gods don't seem to have similar redirecting pages.

As I am not really sure what should be "done" with these pages, so I figured I'd ask you. Thanks for your time,
 * I personally prefer a delete, but since redirects hardly take up any room and offer another search term, a redirect is probably best. I've redirected them for now. Thanks for the help!

RE:Hey
Hm, that's a tough one. I like the battle one, honestly, but that's just my opinion. The only thing that the event infobox has going for it is the start/end dates (in real world time). Probably should be discussed on the talk page if it already isn't to get more viewpoints on it. 20:56, November 5, 2013 (UTC)

Fate of the World Gate
No it's not, the World Gate quest was basically put on hold and is "up in the air", the Fate of the God quest "is not the World Gate quest", and the source you provided, shows nothing of the thing you claim, only that there will be a quest revolving around the World Gate. Even the presentation of Mod Mark they do not say anything about the World gate when they present the Fate of the Gods quest. Again:
 * Provide a source different, or
 * Accept I'm right

-- 12:37, November 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * And here's a source, since Leon failed to provide any evidence whatsoever for his claims, despite asking you to provide some for yours.... Of course, Osborne could just be making a fail or something :P. 12:47, November 9, 2013 (UTC)

God series page
Hey Fswe1, if you don't mind, could you look over this page - God series and check everything is fine? You know a lot more lore than I do. 08:37, November 10, 2013 (UTC)

Desert
Hi Fswe1,

First I read your desert story. Like it, so I give you my support. Second, your funny misclick, made the image glitched... Third, also about the desert, shouldn't the Starved mask of Amascut, Tormented mask of Icthlarin, Amascut relic and the Icthlarin relic be at this template? Oh wait never mind, it's already there.

-- 10:45, November 10, 2013 (UTC)

Umm
LOL 10:45, November 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * Your misclick made it impossible to put a proper version there. 12:10, November 10, 2013 (UTC)

Lord Sulla quest
Erhm, Just readed your quest, reacted by a friends acc "Senneheymans" though I found some errors. Also, I added some links for a event, because Senne asked me. Maybe you want to come and fight for Brassica Prime (or another god)? BTW, just checked you old user page, (I didn't know what god you followed) and I found out that your dutch? In that case: Kom jij ook naar de godenoorlog?

-- 17:00, November 10, 2013 (UTC)


 * Another thing, some images of your old userpage are way to big. (Grunsh)... Misschien praat ik te veel...-- 17:04, November 10, 2013 (UTC)


 * Het is op zaterdag, 7 December, dus net iets minder dan 4 weken nu.

-- 17:49, November 10, 2013 (UTC)


 * 17:00... Tja...-- 17:53, November 10, 2013 (UTC)

Weetje, special (waarom zecht hij niet speciaal?) voor jou maak ik er dan twee, waarvan eentje om 8 uur is, ik geef je meteen een linkje naar het forum: http://services.runescape.com/m=forum/c=KewikcQ796I/sl=0/forums.ws?199,200,800,65193961,goto,2 (gemaakt door senne). Het is nu nog een f2p event, maar met genoeg mensen, word het ook p2p.

-- 17:58, November 10, 2013 (UTC)

Views
Using wkpoppages sort of works, although that seems to have stopped counting stuff about a year ago...the other way is using the category structure (which orders things by pageviews), although that only gives you relative stuff. What page did you need info on? 19:29, November 10, 2013 (UTC)

re:Mod Bunana
Could be, right? It looks like an image you could upload as a joke. 14:21, November 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * as a joke? 20:31, November 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * those kinds of jokes are being made by some people though. If you say you did that upload as an accident, I completely believe you, but not knowing any background story for this case, I wouldn't have known it before hearing from you about it. I'm not accusing you of vandalism or anything, but I was just saying that it could have been a joke like the Elefint one, or something. 21:34, November 11, 2013 (UTC)

RE: World Cabbage
Much of the battle infobox stuff was unimportant in the context of World Event. Stuff like casualities and date are really pointless, we only know of a single world event with a commander, ect. 17:54, November 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * True, but they were rather pointless anyway.Be glad we still have the Gods thingy. That'll be changed if the Godless are ever in a world event, naturally. Also: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BYz7FbRCEAAU2Ma.png

18:47, November 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * What does it require? Date: Utterly useless, all world events take place in the same year, stated in the article. Causalities: Utterly pointless. Combatants: Duplicate of strength. Commanders: Already on the article, not that important, they just provide some backstory. Not worth having the parameter due to a single event. -- 19:02, November 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * Optional or not, we should be consistent. You haven't provided any reason as to why the other things are needed. -- 19:32, November 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh, and infoboxes shouldn't be huge things with a ton of information that only a very small minority of people care about. Be glad that I decided to keep the strength thing, because I'd rather not have that either. -- 19:33, November 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, and now the world event infobox has all of the necessary battle infobox parameters :). With the possible exception of commanders. That can come back if World Event 2 has any. -- 19:43, November 11, 2013 (UTC)

RE:Super Barrio Brothers
They're completely different minigames/activities, with different rewards and stuff. Here's an outline of ROS:


 * You enter the well near Barrows Town with a token obtained from the regular barrows. You also need 3 friends with tokens.
 * You go inside this completely new area and talk to a sliske-mask thingy, who warns you and then unleashes the barrows.
 * 2 players fight against 3 brothers on side of the arena and another 2 the other three.
 * These new brothers have unique abilities and attacks, which include the ability to send you into the shadow realm.
 * Ahrim is able to hop across onto the other side of the arena, and players are able to follow him.
 * All 6 brothers have to be killed at once. Killing one makes them "dead" for a minute or so. All of them have to be in the "dead" state.
 * After they all die, you get into the room with the rewards chest. After everyone loots it (which has a completely new drop table), you have to escape through the way you came in, which is randomly generated. You only have 30 seconds before you get hit VERY heavy damage.

TL;DR: Pretty much nothing like the original barrows, besides having the brothers and the "escaping after looting the chest" mechanic, although even that's completely different. 09:20, November 13, 2013 (UTC)

RE:BOL infobox
Um, it doesn't even mention the most important result of the battle: That Saradomin is now much stronger, and Zamorak is now much weaker. Also, I don't recall it ever being said that Zamorak's following was reduced as a result of the battle. Either way, much less important. 17:02, November 15, 2013 (UTC)


 * Err, Saradomin DID win? He beat Zamorak. He had more divine tears and stuff.  17:24, November 15, 2013 (UTC)

RE:Family trees
Aye, they're pretty nice. One suggestion I could make would be to give the Thokson family last names, so it doesn't look like Thok gave birth to himself. Thok I could be called "Daddy Thok" or something. 19:04, November 19, 2013 (UTC)

Template...
If you're uploading any interface images that this template could apply to, feel free to use it. I went pixel by pixel to make some pixels translucent. In other words this is a perfect trans. http://i.imgur.com/s8XQuaK.png Thanks for reading --BrenRS (talk) 05:57, November 20, 2013 (UTC)

Chaos kebabs
That was his primary motiviation, yes, but nevertheless, whether he meant it or not, the dwarves becoming stronger as a result of his attempting to turn them into chaos dwarves is a good example of his idea of "Strength through Chaos". 16:05, November 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually, they they removed their ability to cast magic, which they had become over-reliant on, and then developed steam technology, minecarts, and became one of the most technically advanced races on Gielinor. They were met with difficulty (aka chaos), they beat it, and became stronger as a result. How is that not EXACTLY what Zamorak teaches? 16:16, November 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * Also, Kitty command that you log in. He's actually done some writing. 16:27, November 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * Also also, The Mole Man told me to call you a martian. 16:31, November 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * Moron* This kind of behaviour gets people no where without use of ad hominem. Fartwall, I suggest you call Ben something of similar magnitude... Perhaps "idiot"? 16:32, November 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * I didn't mean stronger in just a physical sense, and magic is extremely common, if the dwarves hadn't lost magic, they would have never developed their technology, which very few other races possess. If we look at the example of the dwarves who DID keep their magic, they all got wiped out by puny barbarians, if they had had dwarven technology, they might have survived. Anyway, Zamorak teaches that people become stronger by overcoming chaos, which is precisely what the dwarves did. 17:57, November 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't think there's any record of the Imcando Dwarves being the subject of a great loss, and the Fremennik would have easily fallen to dwarf multicannons. Regardless, whether you agree with Zamorak's philosophy or not, the Keldagrim dwarves wouldn't have developed technology without Zamorak, and may have had the same fate as the Imcando, who were over-reliant on magic. -- 18:41, November 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * They would have had absolutely no need to, because they had magic and relied on it heavily. 19:10, November 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * On the contrary, I would imagine that Zamorak would admire and respect the dwarves. His primary motivation was to get some new troops, aye, but I imagine he'd think "and if they manage to avoid this, then fair play to them". 19:39, November 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * Um, because causing chaos to make people stronger is kind of Zamorak's whole shtick, take a look at the book of Moia, fairly sure that village was not made up of his followers. Furthermore, what happened to Randas and Rashiliyia aren't really good examples, as for one, Randas was cabbaged by IBAN, not Zamorak, second, we don't know exactly what happened to Rashiliya, and third, that's extremely old lore and perhaps not in line with Zamorak's current beliefs. We should keep Zamorak's article neutral and unbiased, and only putting in stuff that makes him look bad is very much not neutral. If you were to ask Jagex whether Zamorak at least partially cursed the dwarves to make them stronger, they would probably say yes. 10:33, November 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * Don't think that's ever actually stated within canon (besides the actions of Iban), whereas the whole strength through chaos thing is stated multiple times, Armadyl even references it in MPD. 12:41, November 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * It is CANON that Zamorak causes chaos to make things stronger, he doesn't just "make people stronger" by blessing him. Did you even read the book of Zamorak? Honestly, if you're this biased against him and incorrect about his CURRENT beliefs, which are different to what they were back in the days of RuneScape Classic, you shouldn't be writing his article. -- 12:59, November 21, 2013 (UTC)