RuneScape:Requests for deletion/Fake image/Archive 2

Fake image
Current Votes:

Support (for deletion): 11

Oppose: 12

Right, I never understood why we had this in the first place, so I'm nominating it for deletion. When I go to RuneScape wiki, I expect to find articles on quests, on items, on skills; not some little 12-(or 14 so Chia doesn't get all pissy on me..again..)-year-old boy's fantasy version of the game. This information could really be found somewhere on the net if one so desired, but I can't think of anyone who would actually come to the wiki site and say "Oh, man I really need an article on fake images, I'm positive the RuneScape wiki would have one." What normal person immediately associates RuneScape with fakes, then RuneScape wiki with the same thing? I don't expect any other fansite to have anything about fake images, and I dunno why we do either. Not to mention that this article encourages users to upload fakes to the wiki, in direct opposition to our new policy. I dunno how many people will support this (because obviously all the fake-makers will oppose) but here goes nothing. Christine Talk 15:07, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Support (for deletion) I agree with most of what you've said, however, there are many fan sites who hold contests for fake RuneScape images.  I think it's pretty pathetic myself, like you, I don't go on the wiki looking for fakes, I look for useful information that can help me, not fake images that usually aren't that well done.   15:15, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

I added in a vote count (oops) and I assume you support it for deletion Tirrian. But change it if I'm wrong. Do we really need a "neutral" count? And we don't hold contests, so I see no reason. Christine Talk 15:21, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with you, fakes are not directly related to RuneScape. 15:38, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose - If we should not have an article on Fake images then it is easy to say that we shouldn't have one on wtf. They're both not real things/words. Both part of the community. It should stay because many players in RuneScape create them and they are, or should go, under the community category. However, if it might tempt or encourage people to upload fakes there should be a note on the page telling players not to do so, reminding them of the policy. Don't say "oh well your vote doesn't count because you're a fake maker" because that's a stupid thing to say. I do not see how an article would effect a person's making fakes nor do I make fakes anymore and so I feel the entire idea of this is... idiotic. Perhaps they're not part of the game but they still do mean something to many users who play RuneScape and I think a few other sites have articles on fakes. 15:55, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I think the whole slang category is pointless, and would love for that to be deleted also (but it won't happen).
 * I wasn't going to say that your vote didn't count, don't just assume you know what you're talking about; you don't.
 * Don't call anything I do "idiotic"
 * I can nominate the RuneScape article for deletion if I really wanted. There are no guidelines. If I think this article should be deleted then I have every right to nominate it. I have stated my reasons, and they aren't idiotic. However, you insulting me was. Christine Talk 16:05, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I've never made a fake in my life but I think that fakes are a part of the RuneScape community. Lots of fansites have things about fakes. RuneHQ even has a whole forum and tutorials dedicated to them.
 * Ugh, I hate this. Everyone always say that. We are not RuneHQ. We are a wiki, a version of Wikipedia, which is like an encyclopedia. We aren't like every other fansite! Anyone can edit here, we can have discussions here, that's what's good about us. Don't say that just because RuneHQ has something, that we automatically have to. And sign your posts. Christine Talk 16:10, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Oppose - Below I will list the examples shown in the Good Cases section of the RuneScape Wiki Deletion policy, then give my explanation:


 * A page which contains information that has very little chances of becoming a real page. For example, a page with just "wow i love runescape so much don't you? lol" isn't helping anyone. Pages like this will be deleted. - It has real, useful, helpful information.


 * Pages containing original research or a large bias. For example, "According to a poll I conducted among my friends, RuneScape member subscriptions are too expensive." This doesn't help at all and it's personal opinion. These pages will be deleted. - It doesn't contain original research or bias.


 * User pages can be deleted only if the user requests it. It is impossible to delete an account, though the user page can be deleted. - It isn't a user page.


 * Vanity pages. For example, "hi my name is Bob and i play RuneScape every day. my main character is lvl 100 and i have ten other characters, also." These pages are pointless and contribute nothing to the wiki. - It's not a vanity page. None of the fakes shown make anyone's RuneScape character look amazingly powerful. In fact, none of the examples even display any individual's character!


 * Advertising and spam. Posting random websites or things like "Google is awful; try Brand X Search Engine free for 10 days!" aren't contributing anything to the wiki. - It doesn't advertise or spam. Although it names a variety of programs which may be used to create fake images, it doesn't advertise these programs as exceptional or advantageous over other programs, nor does it name websites where these programs may be bought/downloaded.


 * Pages that are nonsense. For example, pages with titles such as "dahoshagohfoug" or "haovhauhgbovaov" have no point in being on this wiki. - Ok, it isn't nonsense.


 * Copyright violations. Taking images/pages from a website that say they are to be used only on their sites should not be used. These include fan sites. - None of the images or information on the page is taken from another website, besides the in-game images, which Jagex gives permission for.


 * Useless or incorrect redirects. For example, one like #REDIRECT: That one guy in RUneScape isn't helping anyone. - It isn't a redirect.


 * Useless or incorrect categories, like a "poop" category. - It isn't a category.


 * Useless or incorrect templates, like a "poop" template. - It isn't a template.


 * Pages in another language. This wiki is English, no other languages are allowed. - It's in English.

I believe Fake image should stay on the RuneScape Wiki because:


 * 1) It doesn't violate any of the rules in the RuneScape Wiki deletion policy, so there's no real case to delete it in the first place.
 * 2) It is a well-organized, helpful, how-to article which gives a basic guide to an integral part of RuneScape, just like our guide to avoiding cheats and scams. We must keep in mind that RuneScape is only a game, but its vast community has a culture similar to any real-world community, and important elements of that culture, such as fake images, are as relevant to the RuneScape Wiki as the article on the game itself. Not only should we have an article on fakes, but we should have articles on other fansites as well - as long as they remain neutral and factual. Those fansites are equally important to RuneScape culture.
 * 3) It describes a fairly complex topic in a simple and concise manner; it describes advanced process such as making animations, but it doesn't go over a beginner's head.
 * 4) It represents a large contribution made by its authors who put a significant effort into creating and uploading the examples and writing and revising the article.

I don't make fakes. I'd have to have a guide in front of me to even start making one. A guide such as our article - simple and helpful. Fake image is truly one of our few high-quality articles. This has even been recognized when it was nominated in the spring for Featured Article of the Month. I believe it's even a better article than some of the articles we have featured, but has been snubbed because of criticism about being irrelevant or useless. In actuality, it's quite the opposite. It has room for improvement, sure, every article does. It could use a few more examples, and could go a little more in-depth. But there's certainly no reason to delete it. 16:45, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * How do fake images benefit the wiki? <Font face=Sylfaen><font color=RoyalBlue>Christine <Font face=Sylfaen><font color=LimeGreen>Talk 17:01, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

How does any article benefit the wiki? A wiki is about a topic. Our topic is RuneScape. Fake images of RuneScape are within our topic. I'm not saying we should include random fakes from across the web. Why do I have to spell this out?

Some excerpts from an argument in the IRC:


 * [12:46] <ChristineV> I told you I read your reasons
 * [12:46] <Gangsterls> so then why did u say there was no reason to keep it
 * [12:46] <Gangsterls> i gave like 4
 * [12:47] <ChristineV> And I say that it is not directly related to RS, anything can be made into a fake
 * [12:47] <ChristineV> And my stupid apple tree died again
 * [12:47] <Gangsterls> and then i said that the article was about RS fakes and that it's a part of RS culture
 * [12:47] <Gangsterls> there's a reason
 * [12:47] <ChristineV> How is it part of RS culture?
 * [12:47] <Tesfan> What's wrong with using imageshack?
 * [12:47] <Gangsterls> nothing
 * [12:47] <ChristineV> I've never heard of anyone on RS talking about fakes
 * [12:48] <Gangsterls> how come like 20 users have subpages full of fakes?
 * [12:48] <ChristineV> THIS ISN'T RS
 * [12:48] <Gangsterls> because it's part of the game
 * [12:48] <ChristineV> They have fakes because the article is on the wiki!
 * [12:48] <Gangsterls> it's a fansite it's part of rs culture itself
 * [12:48] <Gangsterls> no they had fakes before the article was made
 * [12:48] <ChristineV> Its not really a fansite
 * [12:49] <Gangsterls> they wrote the article because they liked fakes
 * [12:49] <Gangsterls> oh no?
 * [12:49] <ChristineV> We're not like everyone else
 * [12:49] *** mode/#rswiki [+o Tesfan] by ChristineV
 * [12:49] <Gangsterls> just cuz we aren't like other fansites doesn't make us not a fansite
 * [12:49] <Tesfan> Sorry for repeting my self, but what's wrong with using imageshack?
 * [12:49] <Gangsterls> i said nothed
 * [12:49] <ChristineV> Nothing
 * [12:49] <Gangsterls> nithing*
 * [12:49] <Gangsterls> nothing*
 * [12:49] <Tesfan> So then whats the argument about?
 * [12:49] <Gangsterls> if we aren't a fansite then what are we
 * [12:50] <ChristineV> Deleting the ARTICLE fake image
 * [12:50] <Tesfan> ahh
 * [12:50] <Gangsterls> it's a good article
 * [12:50] <ChristineV> Its not needed
 * [12:50] <Gangsterls> nothing you say makes it a bad article
 * [12:50] <Gangsterls> it is it's part of the culture
 * [12:51] <Gangsterls> there's an entire internet culture that's what user-generated content is all about
 * [12:51] <Gangsterls> wikipedia, youtube, myspace are all about ugc
 * [12:51] <Gangsterls> and so are fakes and gaming culture
 * [12:51] <Gangsterls> we're a wiki. we're all about ugc
 * [12:52] <ChristineV> No, we're all about RS
 * [12:52] <ChristineV> To be technical
 * [12:52] <Gangsterls> everything on the wiki is user-generated content
 * [12:52] <Gangsterls> it's the RS WIKI
 * [12:52] <ChristineV> The fakes that people make are not BENEFITTING the wiki
 * [12:52] <Gangsterls> there's two parts to that
 * [12:52] <Gangsterls> 1. RS
 * [12:52] <Gangsterls> 2. WIKI
 * [12:52] <Gangsterls> wiki - user-generated content
 * [12:52] <ChristineV> The fakes that people make are not BENEFITTING the wiki
 * [12:52] <Gangsterls> RS - game
 * [12:53] <Gangsterls> RS + WIKI = Fakes, fansite, forums
 * [12:53] <Gangsterls> they're benefitting our visiters
 * [12:53] <Tesfan> If I may offer a sugesstion, the Slang pages have nothing do to with RS
 * [12:53] <Gangsterls> who are rs players and might want to learn how to make fakes
 * [12:53] <Gangsterls> yes they do!
 * [12:53] <ChristineV> Have you read the discussion page Tes?
 * [12:53] <Gangsterls> culture! culture! culture!
 * [12:53] <ChristineV> Ilyas brought that up too
 * [12:53] <Gangsterls> those words are used in-game all the time

RuneScape slang, fakes, and this entire wiki and all other fansites are all part of the game's culture. As an encyclopedia about the game AND a part of its culture, we should have articles on not only the in-game elements of RuneScape, but the elements of its community which give it its culture. If you've heard of Web 2.0, you've heard about user-generated content. This entire wiki and all of its content was generated by us - its users. User-generated content is a huge part of internet culture, and includes sites such as Wikipedia, YouTube, Myspace, Facebook, and countless others, including ALL WIKIS. And since wikis are encyclopedias with a given topic - ours being RuneScape, we should include its culture as well. For what other reason would you guys sit in front of a computer every day than to play games or do whatever else you want? And everything that people do for fun on the internet is just another part of internet culture - wikis included. Don't go all psychologist on me. 17:08, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * How was I going all psychologist on you? <Font face=Sylfaen><font color=RoyalBlue>Christine <Font face=Sylfaen><font color=LimeGreen>Talk 17:14, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The people who were on IRC right now might have seen my arguement with Christine. I'm in no mood to copy it but it seems pointless to be so technical. Saying that fakes aren't technicaly part of the game that Andrew Gower and his staff actualy designed is like saying that chocolate is bad for you because it's a drug, which is true but not how most people look at it. Fakes are part of the community of the game and the player built culture, not what jagex themselves put in the game. Christine, open your eyes and look at this from all viewpoints, not only one. 17:34, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Oppose - But I think the article should have information at the top of it as to where people should put there fake images (links to other servers that can be used). That way, if there are discussions about fake images in future, then the article can be used as reference as to what people should do with them. If hightlighted adequately, then it can be used to discourage people uploading fakes to the wiki server itself. 17:38, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

OPPOSE! - I'm not opposing as a fake maker, I'm opposing as an editor, a reader and a player. Fakes are fun. The article has A LOT of information! Why delete such a nice article? It has a step-by-step how-to, it explains what a fake is, and has been nominated for featured article. 3 times! Why? Because it had a lot of information! The buddies article is more worthy of being deleted than this. Why is it not being put up for deletion? Because buddies has plenty of information there. The fake image article has 4 times the information. Of buddies, an article that has plenty.

Christine, I got "pissed" at you earlier for calling it a "little" boys fantasy, then made a refernce to me. And I'm not 14 either... 00:53, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
 * =/ 00:59, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Anyways... See below =/ meh...

I think we should keep the page, but move it to something like, RuneScape:Fake Images or summat. I think it is something to keep, but not on an article page. It deserves a page accordingly. My reason stated, it's neither opp or sup. I think articles should only be directly related to RuneScape 00:59, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Oppose, don't hurt me, Christine.. 0.0 01:17, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Support: I really don't see the relevance to RuneScape and the wider community.
 * Ilyas:As much as I hate the slang category, it is by-and-large a dialect in the game. Are 'fakes' in RuneScape?
 * GangsterlsThe fakes are not like avoiding scamming, making money etc.Also I highly doubt that fakes are part of the culture. Also 'argument by non-existance' doesn't work:Just because it's not specifically mentioned in the 'Good Rules' part of the Deletion Policy means that it should be there.

What if I created an article on how to 'hack' RuneScape, which many people contributed to? And don't respond with 'Well it's against Jagex rules', because 'hacking' RuneScape is an integral part of the community that hacks.Also it's not informative whatsoever to the average RuneScape player. While money-making and scam avoidance guides will help the player 'advance' so to speak, and slang guides will help them understand the 'lingo' of RuneScape fake images are basically useless.
 * Chiafriend The buddies are approximately as relevant to RuneScape as the buddies. Either delete them both, or create an article on how to make buddies.
 * Lastly the 'community' thing is kind of overblown. Should we make an article on Non-Existant Articles because certain communities believe that they will be released soon. We're an encyclopaedia aimed at helping those who play RuneScape guys. And chill. It's just a Vote for Deletion for crying out loud... 01:19, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Support: I really don't have much to say here. It's simply not relevant. -- 01:27, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
 * OPPOSE. This is a wiki. It is for information about the Wiki's subject matter. However, it is also a COMMUNITY, and RuneScape fakes are as much community as the Wiki-Fest.

support i support its deletion as even though using its instructions doesnt break rules but it is simeral to guide that tells you how to break rules in my opinion --Tjayh913 01:45, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Oppose deletion, but the article does need refocused to eliminate many of the issues expressed. 02:20, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

oppose Great article, don't delete :(--Iamzezima777 02:24, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Oppose I like this article, if you delete it, you make me sick--Tealclock] 10:54 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment -Tjayh913, what's "simeral" mean? 14:49, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Comment: I don't think that Iamzezima777's vote should count as this is the only contribution he has ever made. <Font face=Sylfaen><font color=RoyalBlue>Christine <Font face=Sylfaen><font color=LimeGreen>Talk 15:09, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Comments: Christine, even if a user has few or no contributions, they still have the right to vote (I don't need to remind people of RuneScape:All editors are equal). Iamzezima777 took the time to make an account and unless someone can prove he is a sockpuppet his vote will count. I think that Tjayh913 meant 'similar', Ilyas. Also, people are voting without explaining their reasons (I like this article, if you delete it, you make me sick - erm...wtf? That's not much of a vote... neither is Great article, don't delete or Oppose - don't hurt me Christine or It's simply not relevant.). Moving past the woefully short and unexplained votes, at least those voters declared support or oppose. Mariofreak and Spitfire's votes were assumed to be oppose and support respectively, but I have removed them from the vote count because we can't be sure of their position until they declare it. Maybe they meant to be neutral by giving comments but not declaring either way? If so, please insert Neutral or Comment before your post. Until a vote has been announced, I have removed those two votes from the vote count. I'd like to thank Syugecin for leaving his comments although he clearly stated that his vote is neutral. RuneScape:Votes for deletion really needs to explain the voting process better to avoid unexplained/unclear votes. Despite any confusion, I appreciate everyone who's commented or voted here for at least taking the time to do so and pay attention to the vfds, which are a common issue among our wiki community. Thank you to all who posted 15:14, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Comment: Iamzezima777 is MattDegoth BTW. He forgot his pass on MattDegoth. 17:59, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Support Let's say people start getting Runescape tattoos; should we create a page showing them? Fakes are done in tribute, more or less, to runescape. They have no place on the wiki. Yes, they do use runescape images, monsters and the like, but if you let them in you have to let everything in involved with runescape. Atlandy 23:48, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Oppose As the article in question is not going against the RuneScape Wiki Policy of Deletion, and as fake images ARE a major part of RuneScape culture, along with slang and glitches, which by the way also have articles on the RuneScape Wiki, I'd have to oppose the idea of deletion. Yes, I am aware that plenty of sites have fake images, and that you believe the Wiki should only have articles on things found in-game, but as the Wiki is about all things related to RuneScape, I believe this article should stay.

--JalYt-Xil-BicycleCat 00:27, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

P.S.: I am NOT against you, nor am I against anyone. I just believe the Wiki should stick to its motto, "The Wiki for ALL things RuneScape".

Comment If it is for "all things runescape" then should there be a page if I name my child Sir Tiffy, or my boat The Slug Menance?. All things runescape is quite a broad term. Real world gold trading sites are "part of Runescape" They are illegal, but should we have references to them? Lets say David Letterman makes a reference to Runescape one night..does he get a page? Atlandy 00:35, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I think it should be for all things Runescape that affect the actual gameplay. David Letterman saying something would not affect it, but a monster ingame would, for example. For individual players, they must be notable by most (50%+) of the Runescape population. That's my thoughts. Butterman62 00:43, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
 * By your agrugment; "all things runescape that affect gameplay" do not include fakes. They have no effect on gameplay.[[image:Scythe.PNG|25px]] Atlandy 00:45, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Response: Atlandy you're distorting the concept. Fakes are certainly noticeable in the RuneScape community. We aren't talking about making articles about real people or personal possessions in the real world. We choose to exclude content which is against the rules of the game, a near unanimous decision, as the content is illegal, and inappropriate for our wiki as our goal is to inform others about elements of the game and its community without encouraging them to break the rules. Even if we wanted to include content about illegal elements of the game, if we encourage rule-breaking, Jagex could have us shut down. The wikia:darkrunescape:main page Dark Runescape Wiki does have articles about these illegal elements to educate players on what not to do, just as there are article on scams to teach players about scams which should be avoided. The main idea is that your boat, child, or David Lettermen aren't part of the game or its community. A personal view of mine is that there are legal community elements which we exclude (albeit after much debate) called other fansites because we don't want to advertise, yet they are still part of the community, and if anyone made an article on another fansite and it was well-written and unbiased, I wouldn't be the one to delete it. Bicycle Cat, I think the reference to the motto shows that you really pay attention to what the RuneScape Wiki is all about, and I applaud you. 00:47, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I understand what you are saying, the whole boat etc, was in response to the arguement "all thing related to Runescape". What my point is, is that if we allow fakes to be a part of the Runescape wiki, where will it end?  What about fan art posted on the site? To say that fakes are noticable in the runescape community is pretty presumptous.  Fakes are nothing more than a tribute to runescape, using thier images to create another image.  As far as fan-sites go, we should be the only fan-site referenced.  Tip-it, runehq and the like are littered throughout the wiki and it just making the wiki look weak.   The wiki should stand up on its own. [[image:Scythe.PNG|25px]] Atlandy 00:55, 16 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Strong Delete - What's this fan content doing here? If it is not officially recognized by the makers of RuneScape, burn it with fire on the threshing floor! ;-) Cheers, <font color="#D3D3D3">Relen <font color="#A9A9A9">tless <font color="#808080">Recu <font color="#000000">sant 'o the Halopedia Team http://images.wikia.com/halofanon/images/a/ac/Fleet_Admiral.jpg <font color="#A9A9A9">TALK • <font color="A9A9A9">SPEAK 03:06, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Delete Slang like Lol Is used all the time on Runscape. However, saying that fakes are a part of the RuneScape community is disputeable. I have never heard of fakes mentioned on RS ingame or on the forums. However, A lot of user's here seem to like fakes, So I kinda like the idea of a Runescape:Fakes, page.

opposefake r gewd If what Chiafriend says is true, then I smell a sockpuppet.

Support What is even the point of this page? It does not contain any important information relating to the game AT ALL.
 * It has come to my attention that many of the people voting for deletion have little reason or very small explainations. It's ok to say per above but don't just say "fakes are good" or "fakes aren't in the game". Please, explain yourself. 22:12, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Support - I'm not against fakes, but I don't see how it's a crucial part of the community. I didn't even know about fakes before coming to the Wiki. Please, put it under another namespace or something. 22:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Oppose. I liked that page, now don't let me down! 22:44, 17 July 2007 (UTC)