RuneScape:Chat/Logs/17 December 2015

 [2015-12-16 23:29:57] -!- Cook Me Plox has left Special:Chat [2015-12-16 23:30:18] -!- Septyni.23 has joined Special:Chat [2015-12-16 23:30:21] &lt;Jlun2&gt; "Hoopa eventually got carried away by fighting, and started to summon Legendary Pokémon like Regigigas, Reshiram and Zekrom to test its strength." [2015-12-16 23:30:21] &lt;Jlun2&gt; [2015-12-16 23:30:21] &lt;Jlun2&gt; lets summon god [2015-12-16 23:30:34] -!- Cook Me Plox has joined Special:Chat [2015-12-16 23:30:52] &lt;Stinkowing&gt; I don't think Hoopa would be dumb enough to summon Arceus &gt;_&gt; [2015-12-16 23:35:53] -!- JamesiaInc has left Special:Chat [2015-12-16 23:35:54] &lt;Haidro&gt; fetcher [2015-12-16 23:46:10] -!- Jlun2 has left Special:Chat [2015-12-16 23:55:36] &lt;TonyBest100&gt; Hmm, Chronicle had another update earlier, only noticing now lol [2015-12-16 23:56:44] &lt;TonyBest100&gt; https://rschronicle.com/forum/posts/list/1393.page [2015-12-16 23:57:13] -!- Cook Me Plox has left Special:Chat [2015-12-16 23:57:26] -!- Cook Me Plox has joined Special:Chat [2015-12-16 23:58:03] -!- TonyBest100 has left Special:Chat [2015-12-16 23:58:20] -!- TonyBest100 has joined Special:Chat [2015-12-16 23:58:31] -!- TonyBest100 has joined Special:Chat [2015-12-16 23:59:25] -!- TonyBest100 has left Special:Chat [2015-12-16 23:59:42] -!- TonyBest100 has joined Special:Chat [2015-12-17 00:00:04] -!- TonyBest100 has joined Special:Chat [2015-12-17 00:02:40] -!- Cook Me Plox has joined Special:Chat [2015-12-17 00:02:59] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; coel pls how are we going to do the item id thing without splitting dg keys [2015-12-17 00:03:28] &lt;Coelacanth0794&gt; the keys dont use an infobox for all of them does it [2015-12-17 00:03:32] &lt;Haidro&gt; dazzling three-leaf clover [2015-12-17 00:03:43] &lt;Haidro&gt; tfw wikia is actually helpful [2015-12-17 00:03:59] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; none of them use an infobox [2015-12-17 00:04:05] &lt;Haidro&gt; ok so [2015-12-17 00:04:07] &lt;Haidro&gt; release date [2015-12-17 00:04:09] &lt;Haidro&gt; do we put 18 december [2015-12-17 00:04:15] &lt;Haidro&gt; because that's when it was first accessible [2015-12-17 00:04:24] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; the point is that we want to be able to say, for a given non-dummy ID, what item article it corresponds to [2015-12-17 00:04:25] &lt;Coelacanth0794&gt; what is you plan involving ids? [2015-12-17 00:05:01] -!- Xx Shadow77 xX has joined Special:Chat [2015-12-17 00:05:09] &lt;Coelacanth0794&gt; hi [2015-12-17 00:05:13] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; the goal is to use item ids as a sort of authority control to see what we do and don't have [2015-12-17 00:05:35] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; for example, about 10,000 articles currently have IDs on them [2015-12-17 00:05:45] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; there are 24,000 non-dummy item IDs [2015-12-17 00:06:01] -!- Xx Shadow77 xX has left Special:Chat [2015-12-17 00:06:06] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; that means about 14,000 of them either a) have pages that don't have ids mapped yet, or b) need pages but don't have them [2015-12-17 00:06:09] &lt;Coelacanth0794&gt; "non-dummy"? as in not null? [2015-12-17 00:06:13] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; not exactly [2015-12-17 00:06:35] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; well, for all intents and purposes, sure [2015-12-17 00:06:49] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; but it also includes interface-only items that aren't really obtainable in any way [2015-12-17 00:07:25] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; it's so perfect in theory though [2015-12-17 00:07:30] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; we have a list of all possibly-relevant item IDs [2015-12-17 00:07:39] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; and we have a list of all pages that have their item IDs on them [2015-12-17 00:08:03] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; we just compare the two lists, see what's missing [2015-12-17 00:08:27] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; furthermore, and probably more useful, this makes it so easy to automatically detect changes that need to be made to pages (by diffing the cache) [2015-12-17 00:08:41] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; and most importantly, it will let us easily add more fields to the infobox/pages if we so desire [2015-12-17 00:08:48] -!- Jesse100190 has joined Special:Chat [2015-12-17 00:09:22] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; like say we want to add an unbankable field. if we had all item IDs mapped to pages (and vice versa) I could write a bot to do it in about 5 minutes [2015-12-17 00:10:18] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; the reason I'm so adamant about dungeoneering keys is because they're the one special case that's too big to be handled by a switch infobox [2015-12-17 00:11:16] -!- Cook Me Plox has left Special:Chat [2015-12-17 00:11:51] &lt;Jesse100190&gt; won some rune arrows from the treasure [2015-12-17 00:12:26] -!- Fearthe1337 has left Special:Chat [2015-12-17 00:12:43] -!- Cook Me Plox has joined Special:Chat [2015-12-17 00:13:11] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; and it'll be tremendously harder to do all the cool things I want to do with item ids if we have that weird case of dungeoneering keys [2015-12-17 00:13:34] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; like it actually throws a big wrench in the plan [2015-12-17 00:13:38] &lt;Starieeena&gt; dwarven ramhammer [2015-12-17 00:13:53] &lt;Starieeena&gt; having 64 separate pages for dung keys is dumb [2015-12-17 00:14:06] &lt;TonyBest100&gt; Yay, more clover necklaces on TH, and we get 1 free today [2015-12-17 00:14:16] &lt;TonyBest100&gt; Too bad I lack hundreds of keys this time [2015-12-17 00:14:19] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; why, star? [2015-12-17 00:14:31] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; how does it in any way negatively affect the content? [2015-12-17 00:14:34] &lt;Jesse100190&gt; i got 2 and 3 leaf clover necklace which are useless on a f2p world [2015-12-17 00:14:34] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; it's not removing anything [2015-12-17 00:14:45] &lt;Starieeena&gt; unnecessary pages [2015-12-17 00:15:02] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; what does that even mean, lol [2015-12-17 00:15:14] &lt;Starieeena&gt; 64 pages all saying the same thing [2015-12-17 00:15:21] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; gee we've never had that before have we [2015-12-17 00:15:28] &lt;Starieeena&gt; &gt;.&gt; [2015-12-17 00:15:52] &lt;TonyBest100&gt; Won 2 two-leaf clovers [2015-12-17 00:16:05] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; they're separate items, they have different ids and it's going to be a pain in the ass to do it any other way [2015-12-17 00:16:05] &lt;Jesse100190&gt; if i was a mem i would clean my bank more [2015-12-17 00:16:06] &lt;Haidro&gt; http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/Dazzling_three-leaf_clover_necklace_(empty)?redirect=no that's a long name [2015-12-17 00:16:27] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; anyway, I strongly disagree that they're unnecessary pages [2015-12-17 00:16:36] &lt;Starieeena&gt; can you not just do all the others with a bot and come around the dung keys another time [2015-12-17 00:16:46] &lt;Starieeena&gt; or map all their ids to one page [2015-12-17 00:16:47] &lt;Haidro&gt; hey what are we arguing about [2015-12-17 00:16:50] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; well I can't really do any of them with a bot [2015-12-17 00:16:53] &lt;Starieeena&gt; dung keys [2015-12-17 00:16:58] &lt;Haidro&gt; separate pages for dung keys? [2015-12-17 00:17:05] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; and no, mapping all the ids to one page isn't really what I mean [2015-12-17 00:17:13] &lt;Starieeena&gt; what do you mean [2015-12-17 00:17:30] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; even when we map multiple ids to the same page (like how amulet of glory is going to be soon), it's still using the dynamic switch infobox [2015-12-17 00:17:41] &lt;Starieeena&gt; &gt;" if we had all item IDs mapped to pages (and vice versa) I could write a bot to do it in about 5 minutes" ??? [2015-12-17 00:17:44] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; like we use for monsters in places [2015-12-17 00:17:59] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; implicit is that they have to be mapped to infoboxes, not just pages [2015-12-17 00:18:37] &lt;Starieeena&gt; 64 infoboxes on one page ((H)) [2015-12-17 00:18:51] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; nty [2015-12-17 00:19:03] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; like, there's no good reason I can see not to do this [2015-12-17 00:19:09] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; we should endeavor to have a complete item database [2015-12-17 00:19:16] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; we can't do that if we aren't explicit about separate items [2015-12-17 00:19:22] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; so let's stop being stupid [2015-12-17 00:19:41] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; and stop pretending that item pages exist because they're useful to readers [2015-12-17 00:20:53] &lt;Haidro&gt; what did i say about this [2015-12-17 00:21:08] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; you were noncommital [2015-12-17 00:21:13] &lt;Haidro&gt; "don't care -They aren't really going to get much traffic anyway..." [2015-12-17 00:21:20] &lt;Haidro&gt; ok, cook, let me ask something [2015-12-17 00:21:25] &lt;Haidro&gt; why should I care about mapping item IDs to articles [2015-12-17 00:21:29] &lt;Haidro&gt; What can we do with that [2015-12-17 00:21:49] &lt;Starieeena&gt; btw what's the stance on use of http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/Template%3AInfobox_interactive_scenery [2015-12-17 00:21:54] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; three main things, haidro [2015-12-17 00:22:06] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; 1) it can make it so we can automate creation of new item articles immediately on release [2015-12-17 00:22:31] &lt;Haidro&gt; I don't see how mapping previous articles with IDs helps [2015-12-17 00:22:37] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; 2) it can make it so when things in the cache/alog thing change (which they do, weekly -- we just don't hear about it), we can automatically update those articles [2015-12-17 00:22:42] &lt;Haidro&gt; What do they have to do with making new item articles [2015-12-17 00:23:14] &lt;Haidro&gt; Wait what changes? [2015-12-17 00:23:30] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; values, examines, tradeability, etc, change all the time for different items [2015-12-17 00:23:43] &lt;Haidro&gt; Do we want to update that with a bot though? [2015-12-17 00:23:48] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; it basically allows us to sync our item database with the so-called official one [2015-12-17 00:24:15] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; it doesn't need to be literally automated, but the idea is that we make the mapping from ids to pages so simple that a bot could theoretically do it without problems [2015-12-17 00:24:39] &lt;Haidro&gt; ok what is point 3 [2015-12-17 00:25:01] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; anyway, wrt new item articles, the idea is that we can automatically create infoboxes for new items, like, 2 minutes after release [2015-12-17 00:25:11] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; by merging information from the cache, alog and one other source [2015-12-17 00:25:24] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; point 3: it makes it incredibly easy to add new parameters (and there are a lot of options) [2015-12-17 00:25:42] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; actually this will probably win you over [2015-12-17 00:25:44] &lt;Haidro&gt; I don't see how item IDs relate to making new article pages [2015-12-17 00:25:58] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; we need the item ids to get the information about the items from official sources [2015-12-17 00:26:01] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; okay so here's the killer [2015-12-17 00:26:02] &lt;Haidro&gt; we don't need the ID to automate new pages [2015-12-17 00:26:06] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; yes we do [2015-12-17 00:26:12] &lt;Haidro&gt; So you're saying [2015-12-17 00:26:18] &lt;Haidro&gt; if a new item called strange red orb gets released [2015-12-17 00:26:26] &lt;Haidro&gt; we can't make the infobox without knowing its ID... [2015-12-17 00:26:41] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; no, you're being dumb [2015-12-17 00:26:51] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; we can populate the infobox automatically by trawling through the cache [2015-12-17 00:26:53] &lt;Haidro&gt; why do we need the ID then [2015-12-17 00:27:10] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; because the ID identifies which information is actually relevant to that item [2015-12-17 00:27:19] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; all item data is indexed by item id, period [2015-12-17 00:27:27] &lt;Haidro&gt; wait [2015-12-17 00:27:39] &lt;Haidro&gt; where can we get data of an item by its ID [2015-12-17 00:27:43] &lt;Haidro&gt; eg, a log [2015-12-17 00:27:46] &lt;Haidro&gt; is there anything else [2015-12-17 00:27:52] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; what? [2015-12-17 00:28:03] &lt;Haidro&gt; Where would we get this information [2015-12-17 00:28:06] &lt;Haidro&gt; of an item [2015-12-17 00:28:07] &lt;Haidro&gt; when it comes out [2015-12-17 00:28:15] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16076024/items_dec.json https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16076024/cache.json [2015-12-17 00:28:43] &lt;Haidro&gt; Are these both from the a log? [2015-12-17 00:28:56] &lt;Haidro&gt; obtained from* [2015-12-17 00:28:57] &lt;Cook_Me_Plox&gt; cache is from the client-side cache, items_dec is from alog [2015-12-17 00:29:17] &lt;Haidro&gt; ok [2015-12-17 00:29:18] &lt;Haidro&gt; so