Talk:Trading and merchanting guide

Biased
I think that this article is biased. :| Shadowdancer 15:27, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I'll try and fix that.--Richard 16:03, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Can you give some examples of where is it biased? One thing to remember is that this is a guide, and therefore it offers suggestions, so sometimes it's hard not to be biased. -- Couchpotato99 19:43, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The bias is in the advice. I would prefer general principles, than actual advice. Merchants need to understand their market. Any suggestion of easy money could lead a player into a lot of bad trades, e.g. when prices go down and players following the advice end up selling above market price. I would advocate educating merchants what role they provide and why they are tolerated. I also would recommend listing the personal skillset required to have a go at merchanting. The few friends that i know tried merchanting had very mixed results. Game updates also may destroy some very sound advice, as something relatively rare can suddenly become common (the reverse also can occur). --Miw 15:25, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Oops, I shouldn't have wrote the "classes" on there (I'll replace it with something else). The "class items" may be a little biased, but the prices I wrote down are based on what I've seen on forums and server 2 (may not be exactly right, but close)

General Principles

 * Starting with a large amount of cash is a VERY VERY good idea, though you can probably start with a million or less coins.
 * High level players in manufacturing or combat have lots of things to sell. They want to get rid of them fast, preferably in bulk and are willing to lower their prices so that instead of standing around selling stuff, they can be gaining experience.  The trick is a) finding these players, and b) keeping them sweet.
 * Finding them shouldn't be too hard, just loiter around banks until you find players either selling manufactured items in bulk, or cheap rewards from combat.
 * Keeping them sweet is much harder. If you pay consistently good prices, they'll keep you added.  Find out what they're training and try and supply them with stuff to help, (slightly) cheaper than forum prices.
 * If it's a high level combat person, offer to take things like excess lava battlestaves, rune boots, mystic robes, spare barrows items, etc off their hands in bulk and cheaply - these aren't that hard to sell at a profit.  For the very expensive items such as whips, the high level player probably wants to do his own merchanting, so profits may be less of a percentage, but more per trade if you want to go this route.
 * If it's a high level manufacturer (high smith, craft, herblore) the very high value items are probably not worth bothering with (such as amulets of fury), because the manufacturer will want to make as much profit as he can out of these high value items.  However, it should be relatively simple to buy manufactured items in bulk much cheaper from them.  Recommended items are rune kites, rune axes, full black dragonhide, amulets of power/glory, bulk quantities of high level potions.  Note that manufacturers LOVE item traders, and will be prepared to haggle with you over prices, depending on what you take.
 * If you have nerves of steel, you might try foruming. This involves watching the forums for bargain raw materials (coal, logs, feathers, etc etc), buying as necessary, and then trying to resell later for a small, say 10% profit.  You MUST know your market extremely well to even attempt this.  Just because there's a dozen posts saying 'selling maple logs 100 each', doesn't mean that if you see them at 90 each you should buy and try and resell (maples are very common from miscellania).  With this, KNOW YOUR MARKET OR YOU WILL GET BURNED!  An alternative is to try and find raw materials cheap on free to play, and try and resell in members more expensive.  The items which you can do this with now are extremely limited, but gold ore is a good bet for the moment.
 * Rares continually inflate, but will this always be the case? I invite the reader to consider several things before going into the rares market
 * Almost every single MMORPG has had an item duplication bug at one point or other (including a minor one on runescape itself). Ask yourself this:  How much would party hats be if someone discovered an item duplication bug.  (Note also that jagex staff and testers can legally clone items for their own use, one playtester is rumoured to have 2.1 billion blue party hats).
 * The rares market is reminiscent of tulip mania - see Tulip mania. Prices go up because people think they will go up, and no-one in the market is actually buying them for actual use, always to resell later.  Needless to say, the tulip mania crisis, like the south sea bubble came to an abrupt end and bankrupted many.
 * Where has Jagex said it will not drop party hats again? Can you point this out to me?  Oh, you assume that this is the case, but can you be sure?
 * Finally, your cash is irrevocably tied up whilst the rare is in the bank whilst you wait for prices to inflate slightly. Personally, I think you would probably get better profits from foruming.

Cheers --Eucarya 10:43, 13 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Where has Jagex said it will not drop party hats again? Can you point this out to me?  Oh, you assume that this is the case, but can you be sure?


 * Repeatedly, several hundred times, on the forums, whenever someone makes that suggestion... JalYt-Xil-Vimescarrot 16:15, 13 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I like the general principles advice. Another aspect that any merchanter should know about is the effort required to sell items. Some items are easier to sell in bulk (e.g. pure essences, bow strings, vials), others are easier to sell in small quantities (dhide sets, super sets, duel ring). Location also makes a huge difference in price and ease of sales. It also helps if you understand the effect of newly introduced items, which sell at an insane mark-up (a pure sellers market). --Miw 15:08, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Merchanting Guide
The merchanting guide seems small. Countn't things such as pumpkins, santa hats, and other discontinued items be added? I know these items are + 10 mil now, but they are what rich merchants make their money off of. Merchanting is a huge topic and I think that a lot more could be added. I was wondering if this was a new page and just needed time to grow. I would input some information myself but I'm new and I don't know how to input information. Thanks


 * See wikipedia's article on editing here. If you have any questions, feel free to ask me. I just started work on wikis a couple weeks ago, and it took me about a day to pick up. It's not hard at all, so give it a try. Also, at the end of your comments on a discussion page put ~ . This will put your name and the time so we know who wrote the comment. -- Couchpotato99 00:46, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * There actually is quite some good content on the runescape market. I concur that there is a place for a decent price guide that reflects the current street price range. Some historic data would be helpful, as it would show price fluctuations. Working on some ideas around the RuneScape economy in my sandbox. --Miw 15:13, 5 December 2006 (UTC)


 * There was a bigger version, it was just deleted for some reason. Look at the history. 16:49, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry but i had to report the page about getting into worlds to Jagex i mean cmon, the links to getting into worlds such as 2 is taking things too far. It's cheating and it isnt right. I dont support it: neither should you., 05:58, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Whoever wrote this has no idea what they're talking about, and whoever then mashed what they wrote with 6 other peeps crap is doing a disservice to people trying to make money honestly
seriously you cant merch half the stuff on there (glory amulets???) Many may disagree, but lets see an article on buying an obby shield for 300 and selling at 350, or buying bowstrings at 100-150, and selling by the thousand at 180ea. I think the problem is this guide is too rigid, and really doesn't communicate any useful information. Any information on worlds(other than 2)? I dont see that. Anything on the booming fletching trade other than the willows, which technically arent merching, btw, if your cutting them yourself? Any article on merchanting that doesn't say ONCE that you need money to make money should be scrapped. This article could help a lot of people, but not when they don't say that you can only buy a rune scim for less than 30 on mem worlds. I made my fortune merching and you guys are insulting the art. I'd edit myself but I don't have the time. peace

This isn't true anymore. Obsidian shields are now 230, bow strigs dont go a penny under 170, and you can get a rune scim in world 1 for 20 a piece. and ive made millions through merchanting and im fine with whatever we've got here., 05:56, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Poorly written, overuse of slang terms, and not accurate
This article is
 * An over use of slang terms such as "D Scim" and "Addy legs" or "selling r lobs 200 ea". It should use proper grammar and spelling such as "Rune Platelegs" and "Dragon Scimmitar" or "Abbysal Whip" instead of "Abby Whip", "D scim", and "R Leg".
 * Inaccurate. It states that if you sold willow logs for 30 coins each, you sould make a 300,000 coin prophit from selling 30,000!


 * Whoever wrote that crap about making 300k from selling at 30 each (believe it or not it's accurate) profit from selling 30k willows. I.E.

Buy 30k willows at 20 each - spend 600k, Sell 30k willows at 30 each - make 900k, (900k - 600k = 300k) Cmon its simple math! , 02:14, 17 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Poorly written. The other two leed to this conclusion. It has no accurate info and does not represent a neutral point of view.00:15, 30 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm crap at merchanting, so I don't even bother to maintain this article. It's one of the few that I will scroll straight past on the Recent Changes page because I know I wouldn't be able to help. And vandalism probably wouldn't even be noticed. Heck, it may even be an improvement ^_^ Try to convince some half-decent merchants to edit this page, if you can. JalYt-Xil-Vimescarrot  08:06, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I added a bunch of things, half of which are not attributed to me because I forgot to log on. Hope they're aprroved of.Dark0805 18:33, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Coal Merchanting Added
I added the stuff about coal, even though I wasn't logged on. I also added the image. And did a spell check on the entire thing so any misspellings were corrected and any of the words that were spelt correctly but werent in the dictionary like Varrock were added :) Rs name "im in dragn"
 * The page says coal merchanting should be begun with about a million to start with. Couldn't one do it with less (400k?)  What about steel bars?  They are high demand, and fluctuate between 500 and 650.  (I think they're what I'll merchant myself). Mathwhiz90601 20:23, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Steel bars can be found more or less around 550 each,and yes you could start off with 400k but its just a lot more useful if you start off with a lot. At least have enough to buy an even number of coal, (such as 1,000 or 1,500) to make it easier to sell.

Outdated - "Fair (noob) trading"
Hasn't the "fair trading"(dunno what its really called) update has practically ruined most of merchanting?
 * Maybe but people can still merchant by buying from shops and selling on the GE. But the majority of the article is about player merchanting. I'll put a note that it needs cleanup. [[Image:Kandarincrest.gif|25px]]  Chicken7   >talk>RfA 13:09, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Rewrite.
--Ma44040 01:35, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

This article is almost completely outdated. I suggest that it should be entirely re-written. There doesn't seem to be any mention of the GE nor the trade limit. Contrary to what some people are saying, the GE did not kill arbitrage. There are still many ways to earn money by trading--many of them with the GE.Socrates17 08:13, 13 August 2008 (UTC)


 * This article is so far out of date that I think it would be better to simply merge what useful information there is into Money making guide, which is much more up to date and relevant, in particular Money making guide/Merchanting. --Robert Horning 15:08, 13 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I've been trying to re-write parts of it and add sections on the ge. I think that a re-write wouldn't be that hard, and would turn this article into a very useful one. --Ma44040 01:35, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Removal of the entire bottom section
Why can't we just delete the bottom section, it's completely obsolete and serves absolutely no purpose. --Ma44040 03:11, 11 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree. The former merhcnating tips are utterly useless. A guide doesnt need info that "once was" I'm deleting it. -- 00:11, 13 November 2008 (UTC)


 * awesome! --Ma44040 02:18, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Could use some adjustments
I think this topic could use some adjustments.

First of all I think the "Suggestions for Grand Exchange Merchanting"-section shouldn't be there. The market changes all the time. Telling people what goods to buy or sell and at what prices would only result in people getting mad because it didn't work out for them. If you really want to give examples you could tell how it has worked in the past, cause that's the only thing you know for sure.

I think we should concentrate on the general principles, also mentioned before. This page will be looked at by people who want advise how to merchant. To be a good merchant you need to understand what you are buying or selling, why it has it's value, why you think the price will go up or down and you've got to have a plan ready. That's what we need to explain. We could tell somthing about:  Streetprices 	in relation to Grand Exchange Prices. The prices of items that have just been released. The often temporary popularity and how this can make you rich but also how this can bankrupt you. How to recognize a Tulip Mania and how to deal with it. And there is alot more I can't think of right now. Also I disagree with something being said. "Buy items in bulk at the Grand Exchange that are currently going up in price. Carefully watch the prices of the item and sell them when the price starts going down or stays even." when you buy the item when the price is going up this usually means you have to buy it for the highest price. When you sell it when it starts going down you'd have to sell for medium or lowest price. This would cost you more then the profit in most situations. Instead you should buy it when it still goes down but you think it goes up the day after. And sell it when you think it will stop going up. Also I think we should remove the "Tips and tricks" section. It's all from before the Grand Exchange. We shouldn't give tips how people should have merchanted in the past. It's off no use at all. We could replace this section by a section named "history", which tells what merchanting used to be like. How there were tons of people in Falador Park, how there we're alot of scamms, etc.

Please reply. Thank you Gn0om 23:26, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

I think this page as it stands gives good guidelines on the type of items to buy and sell, without really giving specifics. As for street prices, those don't really exist anymore, as there is no practical way to trade large amounts of merchandise outside the grand exchange. So street prices or "forum prices" are completely irrelevant. It clearly states in the article to watch out for newly released items as their price may be unpredictable. Tulip Mania argument is spurrious. Regardless of whether there is an actual use for the item, if you can buy it low and sell it high, you have made your profit. What the buyer does with it after that point is not relevant. The main thing is just to warn novice merchanters how to spot an items that is slowing down and about to crash and make sure they don't get stuck holding the bag. And the argument that a item with a rising price means you are forced to only buy it at the max is false also. Every single item I've merched, I've bought for below market price and sold for above market price. However you are correct, sometimes there are none to buy for below market price, in that case, I simply move on to another item. All a price rise means is for that day, there were more purchasers at above market price than below market price and it certainly doesn't mean that there were none for sale at below market price. For any item there will be desperate sellers who have to dump items quickly to raise cash so they will sell at minimum price. That is why I put in the article that patience is the key both when buying and selling. And not to brag, but I'm making about 900k per day with my method, so I'm pretty sure it works. Anyone who would like proof is welcome to contact me in game. My username is "U S Grant1"

Jimindc 19:20, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Merchanting and the GE
I've written a fairly long GE merchanting guide and put it in my userpage. It's based on my experiences and anyone may take from it to add to this article. Basically, it's not only still possible to merchant with the GE, but in many ways much easier; my guide explains how. I'm quite surprised at how long it turned out, considering it was just meant to be a quick explanation of GE-based merchanting. MarkGyver 12:05, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Dragon plate is oing to be going up massivley for graphic update

Merge the guides Merchanting and Moneymaking/Merchanting?
Please read my post on the Talk:Money_making_guide/Merchanting-page. It is of course intimately bound to this page. Delapaco 12:53, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

"Clan merchanting" section - rewrite or remove?
I think that the Clan merchanting section should be removed or rewritten. Currently, it is too wordy and describes in detail a scheme which is at best a gray area in regards to the rules. I think that perhaps it should be rewritten, following this outline: If an official source on how allowed it is can't be found, I think the entire section should just be deleted entirely. If someone posts an official source on if it beaks the rules or not, then I'll go ahead and rewrite the section. Otherwise, I'll just remove it if no one objects, since it's more collusion than merchanting.
 * Brief description of what it is without giving directions of how to do it
 * A well-sourced official statement on how it relates to the rules
 * Warnings of the dangers involved

MarkGyver 17:37, 2 April 2009 (UTC)


 * As this is a rather big occurance in rs right now, with shouters at GE on many worlds daily, I definately think clan merchanting demands its own paragraph. And I wouldn't consider it lengthy in that respect. As for you fear of reporting about somehting that mig not be allowed - isn't it better to openly report on what right now is a rather big problem in rs and remove the curiousity? By explaining how it works we can at the same time also show that it is inferior to definately allowed ways of merchanting. We can also add bullets with tips on how to recognise these scams.
 * However I do agree that this paragraph could be reformulated and cleaned a little.


 * I've tried to explain the risks of clan merchanting a little better without going into too much detail. Also, the paragraph openly claimed that it was not against the rules, which, as far as I know, is not known if it is or is not, so I reworded that bit too. I looked in the rules and the grand exchange article in the game guide, and nothing about price manipulation is mentioned. I made a thread in the forums about it, waiting for a reply ( links removed as it has expired ). Also, Mr. IP, please remember to sign your posts on talk pages with 4 tildes (~). 19:53, 4 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I've now almost completely rewritten the section, keeping information on how it's done, but also emphasizing the parallels to real-life collusion and explaining a way for players to fight back against this problem. MarkGyver 05:00, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I laughed so much at the fight-back part. Good job. Also, my official forum thread died, so I removed the link to it. Only one j-mod responded, and they seemed to not mind it happening (he/she explained why it could be useful). He/she didn't say whether it was or wasn't against the rules, but it leaned towards not against them. I didn't get a screenshot, since it wouldn't've made sense without the whole thread. 13:58, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
 * MMH_Merch_Clans_Bad.png's an image of a Jmod post against clan collusion. The QFC is 82-83-345-57804019; it's locked and on page 36 of the "Suggestions - Clan" forum.  Based on the post dates on page 50 and on that thread, it'll still be there a few more months. MarkGyver 17:59, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Unreal haha... some of the merch clans who got their cc locked had that done so under the premise "the account may have been stolen"... like come on. If you want to take a stand against it atleast do it maturely. 24.109.35.90 01:06, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * On July 8, Mod Jon H posted a sticky (QFC 74-75-817-59124146) explaining Jagex's policies on merchanting clans, and the associated dangers. 99.240.235.195 18:18, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Merchanting Rule
Recently, Goldmerch was banned. Is this a new rule that soon going to come out. 16:54, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

I added this underneath it: Recently a popular merchanting chat 2lum came to a stop unexpectedly and tons and players lost their money as the item became unsellable. 2lum started a new chat and told the players to sell. Many believe that 2lum was playing them all to only double his money.

-vince

Glory Amulets
There is a sentence on making money by "recharging Glory Amulets". Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Jagex change the price of all Glory Amulets to be the same, regardless of how many charges are left?

Jimindc 06:14, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

You can generally buy uncharged for min, and sell charged for max, because of the people that haven't done heroes using the ge to "charge" their glories.

Umm...
...You can never really have a merchanting guide? 02:56, October 21, 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't get the point of what you are trying to say here. What you do mean that you can never really have a merchanting guide?  --Robert Horning 12:13, October 21, 2009 (UTC)