RuneScape:Yew Grove

The Yew Grove is a page where community members can discuss larger changes to the wiki, such as policy proposals. It serves as a way for anyone to get involved without having to find the relevant discussion page. Messages should be left on this page, not on the talk page.

What this page should be used for:
 * Policy proposals or changes
 * Discussion of community processes (such as RS:AOTM)
 * Changes to significant wiki features.
 * In general, anything that the community at large would be interested in.

What this page should not be used for:
 * Promoting or beginning a project. Use RuneScape:WikiGuild
 * Discussion that is not related to the wiki but rather to the game itself. Use the forums.
 * For anything that does not have a wide impact, use RuneScape:Requests for comment.

__NEWSECTIONLINK__

Entire Dialog for familiars
Is this really needed? To add all the dialog just opens up a can of worms. What is next adding all the dialog for all the quests or NPC's? Atlandy 15:50, 17 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Now you're starting to read my mind, i was going to suggest we do just that... 00:19, 18 July 2008 (UTC)


 * "What is next adding all the dialog for all the quests or NPC's?" Hahaha. Funny you should say that. People have already started. And I am with this discussion (No dialog) 07:22, 18 July 2008 (UTC)


 * While we are "everything Runescape" it can go a bit overboard. I think including all of the banter, and non informative dialog is not needed.  If it is part of a quest where you need to ask a certain question, or give a certain response, then it should be includied [[Image:Scythe.PNG‎]]Atlandy 14:02, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually i do agree, however, as a work around (for those editors that really want such) why not start a separate article called Humour or somesuch (category of culture or what have you), then migrate such verbosities to there and let that article go and grow. To me the excessive dialogue and animations are something i'm already getting plenty of as a player of the game, however for some new editors adding such things can be a way of testing the editing waters, thus my suggestion.  15:11, 18 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep; I enjoy reading some of them. They are usually at the bottom of the articles, but a link to a separate dialogue article for each familiar would be an alternative if someone feels they are taking up too much room. It's nice to know what the dialogues are without having to create each familiar plus knowing the ones that are at a higher level than the player's summoning level. It makes our site that much more complete and comprehensive if someone is willing to do it. Chrislee33 17:46, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * zomg no i was not trying to imply making a zillion little articles just one as in the way trivia was in times past 18:03, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm actually for adding the dialog, for two reasons. First, I think it fits under our granularity policy, and if somebody finds it interesting, then great.  I think it should be under a standardized subpage though, like PageName/Dialog, and we should have some templated way of showing that there is a dialog page for that article.  The second reason is that with quest guides, etc, a lot of people race through the quest dialog, and are kind of curious afterward as to what was actually said.  An extreme example of this is the Ghostly robes miniquest, one of the most bonehead things Jagex has ever done.  Most of the talking in that miniquest is done in areas with aggressive monsters (mostly in the Wilderness), and the dialog is like 30 pages long for each NPC.  If you get interrupted by combat, you have to start the conversation over, making the whole conversation a pointless and completely ridiculous click-race.  Nobody could actually read those conversations, so it's nice to be able to come here and find out what the quest was all about, afterward. There's actually a third reason, too, and that's that it could improve our Google score significantly if we wikify the dialog with links to respective articles.   20:39, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I should add that part of my response was for Atlandy's "what's next" bit. I think NPC and quest dialog would be more appropriate than summoning familiars, but if the dialog pages are correctly categorized, linked to, and stylized, I see no reason not to allow all dialog to be added.  20:41, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Sounds like a project to put on the map Enda, and if your projections are right the wiki will score with google, sweet. I think you're the person to lead the project, so i'm nominating you. Once the framework/policies are in place it should be a simple matter to expand/roll it out into the quests and miniquests ( lol @ jagex for putting a miniquest in the wilderness, what's next a real quest in the wildy? ) 00:42, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
 * lol, Kytti is a prophet.Careful what u say next Kytti, it may also come true.--216.136.67.145 06:25, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

I would have to say that I enjoy reading the dialogue from familiars, as they tend to be humourous (Is that spelled right?), and being a free player I am unable to read them myself.--Hirushi 20:45, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

I wouldn't go and establish any policies without consensus here first, but I've created some templates to demonstrate what I'm saying. Here's what I've created: And an example of use: We would certainly beautify the templates (an image to catch the users' eye would be nice--I'm thinking an animation of someone's head in the chat box?) but that's the basic standardization I had in mind. Is this an acceptable compromise? I can't really think of anything bad about doing it this way--it doesn't clutter anything, it's consistent, etc. What are your thoughts specifically Atlandy? 23:28, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Template:hasdialogue
 * Template:dialogue
 * Category:Dialogue
 * User:Endasil/sandbox/Sample article
 * BTW, I stuck with the British spelling of dialogue (which is really just a transliteration of French if I recall correctly) for now. If it drives everyone nuts (I'm Canadian, which makes it easier, but I'm also a programmer, which means I use the word about 100 times as much as everyone else, so the "ue" drives me nuts too) we can move the relevant pages to "dialog."  23:31, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Also, I should note that I've included a bunch of links in those templates/category to RuneScape:Granularity, which is where I would expect any policy changes to be noted (along with instructions for creating dialogue pages), but haven't created that section itself as of yet. 23:34, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Point well taken. If thy are moved to some sort of other page, that would def. free up the familiars page.  I guess the entire dialog was taking up so much space on the familiars page...it was annoying to me.  However, I can see the point of keeping it [[Image:Scythe.PNG‎]]Atlandy 14:11, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

We should definitely keep the dialogue. I for one find it amusing, and it's not really worth summoning something just to hear its chat--the Giant Chinchompa, for example, has some very cute conversations, but I wouldn't want to have to go out and get a pouch just to find out what it talks about. troacctid 12:43, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Hopefully keep, I enjoy reading them (I too don't want to bother buying a pouch just to see what it says) and I suspect people enjoy finding something they feel safe contributing.  Peacefulsage 03:28, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

I vote we keep the dialogues. At level 71 summoning, I was quite curious what my Guthix Raptor was saying, but I would have needed 9 more levels to understand it. That's alot of charms and a lot of money. I was pleasantly surprised to find it on the wiki!! Kashibak 00:21, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

From going back over this discussion it seems all but possibly one are in favour of moving dialogues to sub-pages. I for one am completely for moving these dialogues (quest, familiar and otherwise). 04:49, 19 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Moving the dialogue for the quests makes sense. Those pages are always long. The pages for the familiars are usually very short, I really think those are fine as is.

Dialogue is completely unhelpful to everyone, who cares what a summoned creature whines about? It's just a waste of spaceJimInRS 04:49, 31 August 2008 (UTC)


 * More than one user has said here that they are in favor of keeping the dialogues,. And it's just text, and it's at the bottom of the page, and usually pretty short. So space isn't a big enough issue to justify its removal. I think enough people have responded here to invalidate your claim that it's unhelpful to everyone, so that doesn't seem to leave any good reason to get rid of it. It's like the examine text. Would you say that's unhelpful to everyone? Surely few people would benefit from being able to look up the examine text of an object, but we include it anyway, and nobody seems to complain. Bottom line is that the dialogues are helping some people, and they aren't hurting anyone, so we should keep them. troacctid 04:58, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Maybe we could have an option to hide/unhide the dialogue on each page, so for those who want it, they can still read it and for those who don't want to see it, they wouldn't.JimInRS 04:59, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Skill-related training
I think the Training section for each skill be transfered to a sub-page (i.e. Fishing/Training and Hunter/Training). This is to unclutter the article from facts about the skill from the guides to training that skill. And since training guides may be long, moving the training section will reduce the article size, making it clear and concise. 12:21, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I think this is a great idea, as it would greatly decrease load times of some very large articles. Good idea! 12:35, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I like the idea of the training section being on a separate article. It doesn't have to be a subsection, what about Free-to-play Ranged training? We could have 39 different skill guides like those. 13:03, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I would prefer if it is still be linked to the main skill article. (Subpages have links to the main page.)  I guess we could move existing articles to the skill article as subpages.  But, that's just my opinion.  14:00, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * It is a good idea to have some subpages to ease the burden of the main article. But I am thinking that moving the training parts do not sound that effective if we are based on the said aim.
 * And if we are moving out some large content, would there be a lot of subpages produced, like what Teng said?
 * (At least 1 page for each skill, that is ..... 24! )
 * Not only a large amount of subpages are to be produced, how about the original place for the moved content? Shall we briefly write something in point form to replace it or.... some other thing?
 * Taking Fishing as a example, the largest content is the Fishing. Meanwhile, the training part takes only a quarter of the total content. In my opinion, we could list the spots in point form and leave the description far behind those into subpages. This keeps the unity of the article and at the same time saving some space. 02:05, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

I admit several skill pages is getting ridiculously long, and an old browser may take ages to load it. My main concern is load time, and information available in the skill page itself. Some detailed info should not be in the skill page, but rather be in the corresponding article dedicated to the detailed info. My first suggestion does not seem right at the moment, as discussed above. But, somehow, the articles need to be shrunk someway. So, here goes:
 * Information related directly to the skill but do not have an article should be moved to subpages (or appropriately-named articles).
 * Information with existing articles on their own should be moved there, with a summary provided in the skill page, and the used to link to the article.

08:39, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Sounds like it makes a lot of sense, and there is no one saying it's a bad idea.. As long as each subpage gets a 1 or 2 sentence brief next to its link this should prove to really neaten up some articles. --Degenret01 09:49, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

I feel like if we had the training guides in their own separate pages, they should be more detailed than they are now. For most of the skills they're not very in-depth; if they're getting their own pages then those bits should be expanded. troacctid 01:59, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
 * my feeling is that when they migrate to their own subpages more editors will be inclined to work on them (as they won't be buried in an article that is as long as some of them grew to be. I know that for me when an article gets to be way more than i'm looking for i'll oft skip over pieces that i might otherwise be inclined to add to. So my instinct is the Training articles will almost automatically grow with new ideas from contributors. 03:53, 19 August 2008 (UTC)


 * There are several aspects of skill pages that may cause them to explode in size. Skill training is one such element. Training losses/profits are another. Then there are the huge number of items that some skills are involved in (e.g. summoning, slayer, farming, herblore, cooking, magic spells, smithing). It may make sense to dedicate a separate page to off-load the main skill page. Doing this in a consistent manner will be difficult. Often, content moves result in articles with mostly links and no actual information. Miw 13:53, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Succession infoboxes and non attackable monsters
Template:Succession was recently added to the Spirit Beast article describing the Spirit Beast to be the strongest monster. I have since removed it because we define monster to be an attackable character. Since the Spirit Beast cannot be attacked in any way, it is not defined as a monster based on that article.

Similar characters include Hazeel and the the dragon from the tutorial: They have levels, but they cannot be attacked and serve more as NPCs.

What we need to decide is whether articles on these characters should be treated as monster articles or NPC articles. If they are to be treated as NPCs, they should follow that format. If they are to be treated as monsters, they should follow the format of a monster article. I personally suggest treating them as NPCs because they cannot be attacked. And if they are to be treated as monsters, they should not carry the succession infoboxes. Dtm142 18:15, 12 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I would agree. Conversely, some people consider "monsters" to be a sub-set of NPCs.  Personally I think they are separate classifications, monsters being any person or creature that can be engaged in combat, and NPCs being any person or creature that players can talk to.  But consider someone like Sigmund, who is an NPC at most times, and a monster during Death to the Dorgeshuun.  I think there will be exceptions as well as rules, but the Spirit Beast should be called an NPC IMO.   19:42, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Maybe we should call these non-attackable monsters as NCMs (as in "Non-combat monsters"). NCMs should have a combat level indicating their strength, but unfortunately they cannot be attacked.  I think NPCs should be reserved to talking characters without any indication of their strength (combat level).  So, Spirit Beast is a NCM, while Sigmund is an NPC.  This should clear-up the disputes over NPCs and non-attackable monsters.  (P.S.: What's wrong in having the succession box in the Spirit Beast article?  Spirit Beast should hold the title of having the "Highest combat level in RuneScape"  05:48, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It is potentially misleading and confusing to players because the character cannot be attacked yet is being treated as if it could. I think that simply having a level does not mean that it should be defined as a monster. Dtm142 00:48, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Translucent interfaces
Now that there is fullscreen and the resizable game window, the interfaces are translucent. Shouldn't the interface images not be translucent, but look like they do on an ordinary game window? There is an image for the Music Player, but the backgrounds will always be different for the interfaces. 12:48, 15 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm a little unclear on what you are asking (double negatives throw me off), but i'm guessing that you're thinking that the interfaces need to be consistently presently on the wiki without random background imagery showing through (correct me if i'm wrong). Here's two examples, the first is a simple capture of the music interface window with an end of the world grey mist background (thus making it consistently shaded) the second is the same but with the transparent parts solidified through a graphical image manipulation program (gimp).


 * Thoughts? Ideas? 09:36, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I like the second one, the darker background makes the text stand out and looks more solid. 10:15, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Now if there is an edge of world somewhere with a black background, that would make capturing these interface panels a breeze. The first example above was done at the edge of my house where it's a light beige colour. The second one has had the stock background filled in over the transparent-ed elements (so long as fixed window is a game option, it will be possible to capture this background without the transparency levels applied).
 * [[Image:New_music_HD_interface_with_proper_transparency_and_no_background.png|thumb|left|100px]]
 * Alternately we could just go with the image processed with the proper transparency levels, which means it could be placed over any image and still look right (is there a way in the wiki to place images on top of other selected images)? Here is the window recreated the way it is rendered with proper transparency levels applied to the transparentcized portions (as seen to the left here).
 * If you look at it on its Image: page you'll see the checkered background as it would appear if one was in game.


 * Thoughts? Ideas? 12:57, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
 * YUCK. (That was my initial reaction, sorry Kyatt.) Umm... I'd prefer if it "appeared" to be translucent, and but NOT translucent per se.  This means that the images have solid backgrounds without any transparency.  I think that was what C Teng was saying: no translucent backgrounds (with scenery), but solid backgrounds.  The second image (the one on the right) was okay.   13:12, 16 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I have to agree the blue background is overwhelming (i commented it out as a favour to others). My thought is that the first of the two is the better choice for multiple reasons, (1) any user need only go to an "edge of the world" (POH house is the easiest example) and rotate the camera angle so that the interface pane is hanging into the solid area, and (2) no special editing is needed that way, such as is the first image. The down side of that is, (1) the image background comes out a bit washed out, and (2) the edge of world areas are, so far as i know, only available to members.
 * If the later format is preferred then it could actually be considered a mini-project which i could undertake, along with anyone else that would want to help, to document all the HD formats of the interface windows. Thoughts? Ideas? 18:14, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I just think we should not use fullscreen / resizable window interfaces. 18:29, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I would imagine the best way to ensure that is to only allow captures from the LD version of RuneScape (the one with the minimum specifications of "128MB RAM & 500Mhz CPU"). And i will have to say that since i am currently on dial-up speeds after recently moving and have to say that the huge screen captures, like the 1280 x 800 that i found in ttg, are painfully slow to load with my current limited bandwidth. Thoughts? Ideas? 21:42, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Two words. Dwarvern Mine. ~ Lol, just go to the staircase at the end and tilt the camera. 19118219 Talk 07:01, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Changing Article of the Month to Article of the Week
I know there has been discussion regarding altogether eliminating the Article of the Month.

However, I would propose that we change it to Article of the Week. In doing this we can:
 * Encourage visitors to return more often as there is updated information on our front page.
 * Bring exposure to many more excellent articles.
 * Lessen the prestige (a concern mentioned as a reason to eliminate the AotM) of the article.
 * Increase traffic and hits on our site as more people visit more pages.

The only downside I see is more work for someone (sorry) to do weekly edits rather than a monthly one. Comments? Thoughts? --Kashibak 20:23, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Wow, thats an awesome idea!!! I like that you mentioned the downside, but it doesnt seem a big one. This seems a good moderate solution to the problem of keeping/killing AotM. 1diehard1 20:40, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

I like this idea. I do see another possible downside, which is that we'd go through our best articles four times as fast, and eventually end up with some lower-quality picks as we run out of really great ones that haven't been used already. But would that really be an issue? troacctid 20:46, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I think we should keep it as AotM for now. I agree with Troacctid; we would run out of good articles. 22:25, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Ok, so what if we recycled Articles of the Week once we run out of the higher quality topics? Surely there are 52 good articles existing on the Wiki right now-that's a year's cycle of high quality articles. And, worst case scenario-no additional "good ones" are added within a year, we repost the cycle again. With new players to Runescape, and new visitors to the site, for many people it would be like seeing the article for the first time. Again, just my two cents. --Kashibak 02:41, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Wait a minute why not keep the Article of the Month as is but add an Article of the Week which is like the best of Articles, we could literally just cycle through previous Articles of the Month for Article of the Week. The upside here is minimal extra work, plus previously featured articles would get fresh exposure to keep them from getting out of date or less than AotM worthy (so to speak). Thoughts? Ideas? I'm ready to put it together if it meets consensus. Curiously, 03:45, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Sounds good to add AOTW instead of replacing AOTM, and it will help make up for the fact were prob going to lose UOTM. I think were not going to get a lot of input or votes on this feature, especially after a couple months go by.. But by cycling past AOTMs that will eliminate most problems. Perhaps we could even include articles that almost made AOTM and only lost by a couple of votes (but not if they lost for being poorly written or something like that).--Degenret01 06:44, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

I totally think that making the main page updated every week with a new article will be a change for the better. This will make it seem more like we are a growing and active community. It's horrable seeing the same thing EVERY week on the front page of the rs wiki -- Rune ldr 88  07:44, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

As some of the others have said, the more frequent change might lead to a dilution in the quality of the articles featured. Already there have been some AOTMs that in my view haven't been of the best quality (not the most recent ones, but a few months ago) and having to find a new high-quality article every week is going to reduce the number available. However, if the idea is reoriented into featuring a focus or collaboration article rather than one that is of already high quality, then it might serve some of the purposes of having an article of the week as well as potentially increasing the quality of the targeted articles to that of featured article status. If through such an effort (or other means) the number of available articles increases, then I would certainly be open to the idea of featuring a new article every one or two weeks rather than every month. Skill 07:07, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Updated Logos and Favourite Icon
Again I am going to put this to the Yew Grove. I am recommending that we update the logos and favourite icon. The version that most people seemed to agree upon before the discussion was archived what seemed a bit prematurely were as follows:

Discussion section

 * Update - As I'm posting this again I'm going to vote for updating these images. 04:38, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay I'm going to have to agree with people below regarding the favicon. It wasn't intended as fan art but i can't argue with the definition (except that it was intended directly as fan art of the wiki and not directly for roonscape).  20:36, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Update - except the "favicon.ico" image. It's too small for my eyes.  I had to zoom it 400% before being able to figure out that it is a combination of fire + law runes.  I think "Astral rune" is nice, or even "Chaos rune" is much better.  I suggest that you stick to existing runes, rather than combining different runes.  My two cents...  08:32, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Update main page logo but keep fave icon - The Fave icon sucks. It looks worse than the current favicon. In fact, a fire rune fused w/a law rune is soooooooo ugly. 21:42, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Update the logos but keep the favicon, I agree with Amethyst... except for the ugly wording. Oddlyoko talk 23:42, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I reckon get the herblore and the mage symbols and put the mage hat ontop of the herby symbol and call it 'mage potion'. I think that would make a great Favicon. I would make one but i'm on the laptop. I'll make one tomorrow and show you. R0KK1 =] ((20:40 20/8))
 * Update both Favicon and Logos. 15:00, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Update The logos, but not the favicon. I don't really think the new one looks that good (no offense) and I really don't think that we should replace the favicon with fanart (especially since we delete fanart here(mixed signals anyone)) this may confuse new users. 15:13, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Update both. Am I like the only one who liked the proposed favicon? O_O 15:19, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Update - I recommend that both are updated. But might I suggest the new Omni-talisman as the Favicon? Ok, so it reminds me of an insect thingy...but it is RS icon and not fan art.--Kashibak 19:23, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment - Oddlyoko, Amethyst is Derilith. =Þ 21:19, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't care about the logo, but I would prefer it if we keep the current favicon. The Fire rune in all of my tabs on this site seems iconic somewhat. 07:02, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Update the logo. I would like to have the one favicon below this message that is the RuneScape "R". Also, will the new logo be transparent? 22:53, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Idea how about this one? [[Image:RSW_logo_idea.jpg|50px]] Btzkillerv 15:03, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * No. Btz, your logo is too large (minimum 16 x 16 pixels), and the logo is completely 'violating copyright laws, which close down RSW, and eventually close down Wikia themselves. —Derilith (talk • contribs) forgot to sign this comment.
 * Update logos. But even though I like the favicon, I agree with Azliq far above me. I canrt notice what it is. Maybe better if we stick to one rune alone (I dont mind which one). Cheers, 13:17, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Idea How about for the favorites icon, we create sort of a 'smily face rune'? it would be a basic blank pure essense image, with a smily face inside it :D. Gondor2222, 30 august 2008

New favicon
I created an alternative icon. 08:35, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Just an R. Simple and effective. [[Image:Example favicon R.png]]
 * Zoomed to 40 pixels. [[Image:Example favicon R.png|40px]]

Who keeps Deletin' the pic in my signature!?!?!? 09:24, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

I like the 'R' the best. 09:58, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Hey everyone, just a quick note that the favicons need to be 16 by 16 pixels in size, like this one: which is one I created from the current logo. 22:37, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The RuneScape "R" is 16-by-16 pixels in size. 02:58, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

I like RW the best. Here's my order (from most fave to least fave).
 * 1) [[Image:RW logo.png]]RW logo - Votes: 4
 * 2) [[Image:Example favicon R.png]]RuneScape "R"1 - Votes: 3
 * 3) [[Image:Favicon.png]]Fire rune - Votes: 0
 * 4) [[Image:Example Favicon.png]]Fire-Law Rune - Votes: 0
 * 5) [[Image:Law rune favicon.png]]Law rune - Votes: 1

1Needs to be recreated
 * I don't see the point of recreating this icon. See "Fair use" section below. 02:45, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

00:07, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't like how the logos and such are mage-oriented. Maybe a non-combat rune, like a law, would be best. 00:43, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

I would vote for the RW favicon since it is directly from the logo and as such would clearly stand out. To me the current fire rune is simply too dark in contrast to related icons as seen here: At the least I'd suggest lightening it namely it's background. 09:29, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Comment -- I'm really not trying to be an ass or anything, but the "R" is copyrighted by Jagex. While that in its own doesn't really matter, using a section of the RuneScape logo as our own favicon definitely does not constitute Fair Use. It implies affiliation with Jagex, and that's not good at all. We could write a disclaimer or something saying that we aren't jagex, but it'd kind of kill the whole point of a favicon. The favicon imho should represent us as a Wiki (again IMHO). 05:56, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * See "Fair use" section below. 02:45, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * What if we changed the shape of the R a bit? I don;t know any legal stuff but I think if our R doesn't look like their special R, it's ok.--Degenret01 13:56, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yup, that's perfect. =) 04:04, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

I think a law rune would work well. Kind of symbolic of RSW in a way. 05:56, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

The RW works for me.--Degenret01 06:09, 26 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment - I think that the "RW" is goodlooking, but still, its deprived from the RuneScape "R" which is still "(c) Jagex under 'Jagex Limited' from 1999-2008". So, like Earthere, I don't really think that the RW will work, but I still support "RW".


 * For those favouring a law rune here's a cleanly rendered version [[Image:Law_rune_favicon.png]] and it's .ico version. (Has anyone else noticed that the detailed law rune image that we have appears to be an older and darker version than what is shown in the official RS GE DB?) 22:43, 26 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I prefer the RW logo. It is the best imo - 01:56, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Fair use
Taken from Fair use article in Wikipedia.

Additional points:
 * All icons (regardless whether it is taken from the website, or the game itself) are technically copyright of Jagex. The use of "Fire rune" icon is the same as using the "R" or "RW" icons.
 * "The third factor assesses the quantity or percentage of the original copyrighted work that has been imported into the new work. In general, the less that is used in relation to the whole, ... the more likely that the sample will be considered fair use." This may sound counter-intuitive, but the less it looks like the original, the more likely it is considered to be fair use.
 * "Although normally making a 'full' replication of a copyrighted work may appear to violate copyright, ... it was found to be reasonable and necessary in light of the intended use." Since the intended use of the favicon is to promote RSWiki, and that RSWiki is a non-commercial site, I do not think that the use of images/icons violate any copyright laws and thus falls under "Fair use".
 * By using these icons, it doesn't imply that we're affliated with Jagex, and we have clearly stated THAT in the copyright notice at the footer of the Main Page: "RuneScape is copyright 1999 to 2008 Jagex Ltd. The RuneScape Wiki is in no way affiliated with Jagex."
 * A simple way to state that the Favicon is copyright image is to put within the summary page of [[Image:Favicon.ico]].
 * The Favicon can EASILY imply we are affiliated with Jagex. It looks like something Jagex would use (first letter of their most popular game), as it would "go really well" with the RuneScape official site, and most anons aren't going to notice the fair use info either.
 * I appreciate the effort, but the fair use rationale still isn't sufficient. 04:08, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Registration Revision (take 2)
I have noticed two VERY annoying changes brought on by some new users. I would like you all to read this (my old idea of revising this), because revising the registration process will, at the very least, make new users have a BETTER general idea of the wiki's rules

Here are the two editing flaws I'm seeing:
 * Personal images returning-even though we HAVE been receiving far fewer users who upload crappy pics of their character or whatever, we still have some slip through the veritable sieve.
 * Users believing that their talk page is theirs to control-in this month alone, I've reverted quite a few user edits where the user removed some content their talk page OR flat-out blanked it, thinking that it was theirs to delete. This is not allowed, obviously, and I'd like to have it stopped. However, seeing as how it’s been going on quite often (or at least often in my eyes), I feel that new users should at least KNOW that it isn't theirs to play with when they register.

Granted, I understand that we may not be able to do this, or this suggestion might get shot down again. I do not feel that this will cut the vandal amount down, but instead bring new users who will at least KNOW the rules and possibly become well-established. We seem to have received an influx of users who don't want to stay here; rather, they make a few edits, say a few things on community discussions, and leave. This isn’t good, and it makes us look bad by making other wikis look at us as too (insert bad quality here; there’s quite a few things that I can imagine as bad qualities that other wikis see). This obviously isn’t the case, but still, new users should feel welcome, yet at least know that they’re not welcome enough to think that these things are OK.

In a nutshell, I think that the registration should, at the very least, have it’s text edited by someone (us, Wikia), w/e) so that the main rules are CLEARLY stated…maybe a link to the Style Guide would be sufficient.

Alright, I’m open to discussion. (I probably screwed up and worded all that wrong...)


 * That sounds pretty great, but how about doing this:


 * 1) Put the rule about personal images on the front page in bold !

23:14, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Custom edit buttons
Hey guys. I've added three more custom edit buttons to MediaWiki:Common.js which Azliq7 requested on my talk page. They allow you to put in a table, add a gallery, and add a line break. If you guys want anymore to be added feel free to request them.--Richard 17:05, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Is it possible to change the "Embedded file" button from Image:Example.jpg to Image:Example.png? 14:34, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Template:Infobox seed
I think that the Street price could be removed, why?


 * 1) We got a grand exchange to trade
 * 2) There is no price set by players
 * 3) Players could see the current price at the bottom of the trade screen
 * 4) RuneScape has trade limits

And examine and patch should be turned swapped places, patch is more important then the examine text.

What do YOU think?

07:54, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Discussion
Good idea. Another thing: "Experience" could be shortened to "XP". For example: "Planting XP", "Harvesting XP", and "Checking XP". 08:16, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

I would like to take Az idea 1 step furhter. I think too many infoboxes are just way too long and worthless. So instead of 3 lines for xp, chop to 1 line saying "Xp For Plant/Check/Harvest"--Degenret01 08:28, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Or even in order:
 * Planting
 * Checking
 * Harvesting

And instead of Time to grow and level to grow:
 * Time
 * Level

09:57, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Downloads?
I suggest a downloads page be added to this wiki (if possible). It could be a place where people could safely download cursors, backgrounds, etc without getting malware and such, since JaGeX only provides a small amount of downloads. Since this is a wiki, and it is made to be edited by everyone, user-made downloads should first be tested for malware by an admin, (preferably in a virtual machine to be safe). If people don't have one, I'd be glad to test. and if it seems to be safe, be added to the downloads page by an admin. It might be called RuneScape:Downloads, with a shortcut of RS:DL or something like that. I'd be happy to make cursors for this, as I know how. Discuss, and please don't say this is a dumb idea. It isn't to me. I'm sure this could be possible if staff helped us, or we could use an external site, possibly? 23:35, 23 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I have some suggestions, Cash.


 * 1) Full protect the page to make sure no vandals can try to add crap to the page.
 * 2) Write in bold on the page that "none of these downloads are affiliated with Jagex, and that they are player-made, so that they are not completely safe. Always consult Jagex for official RuneScape logos at RuneScape.com"
 * 3) `` `` `` `` that you should "Use at your own risk."
 * 4) `` `` `` `` that "If you would like to add a download to this page, consult an administrator."


 * Any more suggestions? 14:43, 24 August 2008 (UTC) (Oh yeah, I support this idea.)

Let's see...I agree with the full protect thing, but if this goes through, I'd be the founder of the project and I wouldn't even be able to edit it because I'm not an admin (finally a reason for me to have an RFA? Maybe!) The disclaimer would obviously have to be there, and the "use at your own risk" thing would probably be part of it. I already went over the last suggestion you made, but I wasn't clear. I've fixed my wording now. I hope this goes through...as soon as I thought of it I instantly thought "Wow, this is a great idea!" 15:08, 24 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm not quite sure. I will probably not download anything user-made just because I don't want any spyware or viruses from the download. I guess we could do it, but I just don't think it will be compleaty safe even if a person says it works ok. -- 23:00, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * You're right it will never be entirely safe but as Cashman (InsantWinston) suggested we can always get them tested by installing some sort of anti virus program, assuming this will be either off-site or will need something installed by Wikia staff. 23:28, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * True, but there can always be a problem later.-- 01:57, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I oppose this idea. It'll bog down the site even more than it already is, and it's not the focus of the wiki. Planeshifted 06:16, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, this, this, this this, and this is not the sprit of the wiki. 11:56, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * As a response to Planeshifted: If it was offsite, how would it bog down the wiki? 14:53, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * This is an encyclopedia, not a link farm. We are not here to advertise our competitors.  If we were to link to unofficial fansites, I would expect them to link back to us in return. Dtm142 22:21, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "Link farm", hahaha. But I think it is a good idea. But the downloads shouldn't be on another website nor our on. On a file hosting website maybe. But one more question: What will we put up?????? Cheers, 06:58, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * @Chicken7  11:42, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

PointyBot Source Code
I've been inactive for a couple of months now, so I thought I'd just leave a quick note in case anyone wants the source code for PointyBot to carry on with updating the GEMW charts. I've uploaded the latest version of the bot to Codeplex at the two links below.

http://www.codeplex.com/wikibot/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=16621 http://www.codeplex.com/wikibot/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=16622

You'll need both downloads to run it - the first is a generic library for writing Wikibots in Visual Basic .Net 2005, and the second is PointyBot itself. There's no documentation I'm afraid so you'll probably need to be pretty programming-savvy to get it working (especially Pointybot, which is a bit of a mess), but I'll keep an eye on my talk page for a bit so feel free to leave a message there if you get stuck.

I might come back to edit the wiki some time, but if not then I wanted to say thanks to everyone for making this a great community - I've enjoyed being part of it for the last 18 months or so, and I'm kind of sorry to be leaving.

Pointy 13:11, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I don't think I'll have time today or the next to really give it a shot, but I'll look into it later in the week and see what I can get done! 16:32, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Colours for tables? Ew...
I've noticed that colour are being added into tables. For example, in the Treasure Trails article. I commend the effort, but the choice of colour ("dirty pink") is not appropriate. I think we should stick to tables without colours, except for the grey header (and maybe footer). We should include table formatting styles and colour usage for tables in the Style Guide. 11:09, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok, Woah, woah, woah. Who changed the table? I hate that beige brown background. It should just be plain white like all the other tables. -- 02:21, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Skin
Hi, well I've been talking to Richard and we decided we need a Runescapey skin. So, this is my ruff copy, what do you think? I'm very open to ideas and I do create images, so please, I want you opinion! If you don't like it say, what do you want me to change! Phoenix Talk 20:52, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Aside from the bloated screenie, it looks really nice. =)
 * Yes we do, which is what RuneScape:Theme is for...--Richard 19:18, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It seems to fit the wiki a little better, I think it looks nice. =D 19:26, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

There are number of things I'd like to point out: 02:12, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) The skin seems to a copy of the RuneScape website skin.  We shouldn't be copying their skin, but creating our own.
 * 2) The skill images/icons at the header is too large, and cannot be seen beyond the 5th skill image/icon. Could be reduced in size.
 * 3) The font colour for the header ("My talk", "Watchlist", "Log out", etc.) should be white.  Now, it can barely be seen.
 * 4) The titles for the items in the Sidebar ("Bookmarks", "Community", etc.) should also be white.

I apologize for the resemblance to the site, I kind of did that on purpose, but, you are right I should be more unique I will try again. Thanks for noticing the the skill image, I will edit that. I will change the color, thanks for noticing, I've got bad eyes. Thanks for your contribution. Phoenix Talk 20:52, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

XP needed to get in high scores
On skills pages, it mentions the XP needed to get in high scores. I think this should be removed, as the XP to get in the high scores changes all the time - probably more often than every day. We should only mention the skills needed to get in the high scores. Anyone else agree? -- 22:16, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

I very much agree, unless we could have a bot made to update it automatically. (I don't know how, so don't ask me...) 22:30, 30 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Getting a bot to update it would probably run into the same issue that a price update bot would—namely, that Jagex has forbidden repeated automated requests to their website, and every request we make has to be manual. It's probably much easier to get rid of the XP than have someone manually tell the bot to update it every day. The skill level needed to rank should serve just fine for most readers. Skill 22:44, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

I agree with the level and not the XP. It would be outdated every 5 mins XD. 07:38, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

This should be removed from articles....I agree Atlandy 13:48, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

RS:DSA Policy works
Does anybody what to help develop RuneScape:Don't sign articles? 16:22, 31 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I started it, thanks for noticing. But I think policy is pretty self-explanatory, don't sign articles. 18:32, 31 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm not that good at writing polices. I kinda like it short because it's short, sweet, and to the point. -- 01:12, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Talk/user pages for vandals
I've noticed some very well meaning people who have recently been putting up warning notices on talk pages of vandals, and in particular for anonymous "ip user" vandals. I completely understand that sometimes people do make mistakes and deserve a second chance, but in this case I want to focus on users who exclusively vandalize the wiki or set up incredibly offensive user names meant to incite flamewars or simply piss off administrators.

Simply put, I believe that attempts to reason with trolls simply is feeding their behavior. Or more to the point, what is the likelihood that one of these blatant vandals even read the warning message? More often than not, they are already well versed in the basic mechanics of wiki editing... indeed a great many of them get into cute games to fight against specific administrators and are pushing for a fight. Some are previous users that have been banned from this wiki for some reason or another.

What I'm proposing is a general policy to delete (aka a "speedy delete") all user pages and talk pages of users that have made zero contributions to this wiki and are being used exclusively for the purpose of vandalism. In other words, treat these users as if they never existed in the first place. They deserve no recognition, and even the distinction of being a "banned user" is giving them too much notoriety.

Warning messages do have a place, but I believe they are much more effective if they are place on pages of what are obviously new users who have made a few mistakes and have other edits to show they have made some valid contributions somehow. I am not asking that users of this nature be denied the ability to edit their talk pages or to be punished more severely.

I can understand a few minor exceptions when a banned user page/talk page is repeatedly hit with offensive content for some reason, but I believe that to be a major exception rather than typical behavior even among trolls. This exception is that a minor note ("This is a banned user") can be posted and the page protected from all but admin edits. Use common sense here, but I don't believe that these sort of vandals are unaware of what they are doing. Unfortunately, a great many of the current set of users who have been banned (see Special:Log/block) have talk pages, and it certainly seems unlikely that they will be monitored in the future even if the user tries to respond there. --Robert Horning 16:44, 31 August 2008 (UTC)


 * That is a good idea. I don't mind us having a policy about that. Are you also suggesting deleting IP talk pages, like ones with the "No Vandal" temp or a "Test" temp? I wouldn't mind deleting those too. -- 18:05, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm going to swear in this reply, so anyone who dislikes foul language should probably just skip past the example I give here.
 * I totally support this idea. Trolls are ridiculously stubborn, let alone forgiving, and their flames usually take a while to smolder away to nothing. In fact, I have a VERY good example. of what trolling does to people, should some of you not understand their idiocy.
 * This site, which appears to have a few users from the wiki appears to be preparing for a flame war with these bastards, who actually worship Tehnoobshow. Yes. That's right. Tehnoobshow really DOES have no feelings. And why would I say this about the godlike YouTubing RuneScape moviemaker? Well, personally, I think he's waaaaay overrated, but that's not the point. From what I see, Teh is trying to just harrass people who dislike him by spamming any sites they go to. For example, Danger Pks U, one of Chia's friends (not sure if he has a wiki account) has had his YouTube spammed by Teh and his subscribers. Which of the many spammers/flamers happens to be Teh is a complete mystery, but both sites have suffered. From what I can see, Ubnub.com started this whole problem, and a few dedicated users from that site were spamming Kiotomi.com's shoutbox. Chia alerted me of the problem on IRC, so I went to check it out (even though there was practically nothing I could do). The THREE users there flamed me relentlessly, believing that I had spammed that fucking Ubnub. When I provided proof that I hadn't, they *miraculously* accepted it, but kept flaming me, thinking that I just wanted to leech off of their "diety's" YouTube popularity! After 20 minutes of attempting to trigger their brains into acting reasonably, I gave up, just as one of the fuckers was about to launch a VERY racist commnent (I saw it when I came back later and they were gone...they called me an Aisan, which 1. I'm not, and 2. is racist).
 * My main point is that if we fuel the troll's will to flame, like I was inadvertantly doing, we'll lose in the end. So, without further ado, I support this idea.
 * I mostly agree with this proposal. While I often like to give people the benefit of the doubt and offer them a chance to redeem themselves, I often go straight from rollback to CVU, then the warning. Often times, a week or so later, I find the vandal back being stupid again, with a tag with my sig on their page from the last time I reverted their vandalism. It really seems to be a waste of time sometimes, but I don't think that pages that currently have them should be deleted. I personally feel that the majority of the vandals to the encyclopedia are very young and just think they can do it and get away with it, usually not checking back to see if their vandalism has been reverted. In time, they will most likely mature, and perhaps the warning on their page will cause them to stop and think: "Damn I was stupid, what was I thinking?" I hate to stereotype, but I feel it's entirely correct. By acknowledging that they were once here, and now they are not, I feel it gives the Administrators an aura of authority, and could show people that vandalism will not be tolerated. We are all here to better the encyclopedia, and to ensure it provides accurate information for everybody who needs it, and I think those who have a different mindset deserve to be labeled as they are; vandals.
 * On the other hand, I think just one warning is sufficient, and the could probably be done away with. The no vandal template lets whoever the individual is know that what they did was wrong, and they should review the rules. Warn3 is, in my opinion, and as Stinko would say "fueling the trolls". If they didn't get the hint the first time, then tough for them. Ugh, I'm getting way off track... Their talk page needs one template. No other comments, not "DON'T DO THIS AGAIN!!!!!!1!11!11one!1" or anything else. Keep calm, and let them know they screwed up.  19:48, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Great Market Crash Of August 2008?
Article: 2008 Market Crash

Alright, I figured I'd propose another ide--- no, wait, put the flaming torches and pitchforks down, please. :\

Seriously, it seems that on or around August 20, 2008, there was a series of events put in motion that caused a massive nosedive in the economy of RuneScape.

Should we make an article outlining this event? Do more research? Burn me at the stake? What? Planeshifted 21:33, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I oppose the death penalty so no worries but anyway if it's really as significant as the December 10th riots or anything else on that level then go ahead. Personally I've never heard of this "Great Market Crash" so I'm not one to judge it's significance. 21:49, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Well here's 4 threads from page 1 of the Item Discussion forum from the RuneScape Forums:


 * "SOMETHING RED*CULOUS HAPPENING"
 * "20th August, Item Price Crash"
 * "wtf is wrong with the economy?"
 * "Price Drop?!"

Just as quick examples.Planeshifted 21:58, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok then I support as long as the article will provide sufficient information on the crash. 22:06, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * There was a market crash? I had no idea.... well I guess I wouldn't have known simply because I don't play RuneScape as much as I used to. Anyways, do we have any other articles about market crashes in RuneScape, 'cause if we don't I don't think we should, but who am I to say what should be done. I really don't care one way or another if we do have an article about it. -- 22:18, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Well as you can now see the article is in place. I can't write it on my own thought as I'm hardly an expert on what's going on, so...help!Planeshifted 23:24, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

My kitty instinct on this tells me that it is coinciding with a large quantity of RS players returning to school. Possibly many don't want to lose out on items that will depreciate so they're flooding the market (maybe even many are switching from members to free for the duration of the school year and thus dumping items) which of course accelerates the depreciation of the items since soo many are now available. I remember noticing last summer prices fluctuating around the times school starts/ends, however the Grand Exchange was not in place that time. So that's my crackpot theory of the moment, feel free to expand on it or bury it as you see fit. 00:11, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Your "kitty instinct"?.... Well regardless, why would this be the first time in history this happened? Planeshifted 00:49, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, RuneScape has been growing (135+ mil) in players, so I guest with the large popularity selling items because of school, a massive dropping price in items would happen. -- 00:53, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Here's what I think happened: Lending was introduced. Players could now pay per hour on expensive items (whips, godswords, partyhats, etc.). Because of this, you don't actually need to own one, whereas you can just borrow one from a friend who might be going on vacation for the weekend or something. Because of this, demand has gone down, and the supply outweighs the demand, so prices drop. And yes, the Grand Exchange probably has something to do with it. 01:45, 1 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Good prediction, Chia. I think all of the ideas here contributed somewhat to the cause of the crash. -- 01:48, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Just a thought. Notice that the Great Orb Project was released on 12 August, and updated on 18 August. Any relationships there? 02:14, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

I've heard a number of players in different places in different worlds talking about it, and a common thought is that many players think the new PvP with its' "awesome PvP drops" means that were getting such cool weapons that no one should spend a lot of money on "one of those older not as cool" weapons. It's like these people think this update will be happening tomorrow (instead of just "sometime in 2008". I think this, coupled with the back to school thing kytti mentioned, is a good percentage of whats dropping the market. --Degenret01 03:15, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
 * You know what? That's a good point.  I'm going to put that in the article as a possible cause.Planeshifted 04:15, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

AOTM changes
These are really a few disconnected ideas regarding the current AOTM process, so I'll list them in bullet points:


 * On the RS:AOTM page, each candidate is given its own subpage for voting at the moment. While this is a relatively minor point, I'd rather have the discussion on the page itself. It really is one big discussion in a way, and the page length wouldn't be very long if this were done. Combining the discussion would also make the page easier to maintain and organize.
 * Template:Featuredarticle should incorporate the entire lead section of the featured article, or for leads longer than about two paragraphs, significant parts of it. This draws more focus to the article itself and hopefully gets more readers interested in its content. (As was mentioned on the UOTM VFD the AOTM text is generally very short compared to the UOTM text, and I agree that this should be changed.) If the article featured doesn't have a substantial lead, it shouldn't be the AOTM!
 * This is a bit off topic, but I posted above in the section about an "article of the week" regarding a focus/collaboration article that could be chosen every week and listed on the main page. I really think this could improve the overall quality of some of our "core" articles, articles that could go on to be featured. If it looks like there's some interest in this I'll try to write up a more detailed proposal.

Any thoughts? (If anyone would like to list some ideas of their own I wouldn't mind.) Skill 06:37, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Whoa, Whoa, are you saying changing "month" to "week"? If that's the case, then no.I really don't think that would help because we don't have that many articles to show (or at least good quality ones) every week. Wikipedia can do one every day just because they have so many articles. I don't think this would work out in the long run. -- 14:10, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Not really what I was suggesting, see the comment I had written in the linked section... it's more of a "collaboration of the week". I do recognize that it would be impractical to have a weekly featured article for the moment, but that's not the idea here. Instead, we link an article from the main page in an effort to improve its quality. It really doesn't need to be too formal, it could be changed by whoever thinks a particular article could be improved, given a few guidelines that we can post on a project page. The idea is to target potential featured articles that aren't ready yet, and articles that most readers would find essential to a complete RS resource. Skill 21:03, 1 September 2008 (UTC)