RuneScape talk:Style guide

Redirects
''Check for similar categories and articles before creating them. We do not need similar categories such as category:slayer and category:slayer monsters and category:Slayer assignments. Nor do we need addy med and Adamantite medium helmet and addy med helm and adamant helmet (medium).''
 * This being said, what is the policy on redirect pages which might assist in user searches? For example would redirect pages, named for common slang terms (Laws or Nats, for example) also be on the forbidden list?--Curmudgeony 06:35, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I have reworded it in an attempt to reduce confusion. Redirects will always be appropriate (when appropriate). Green party hat.PNG Hyenaste talk 07:29, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

English Spelling
"RuneScape is british and british spelling must be used at all times." ...so why is favourite spelled favorite? User:Carralpha

I dont think British should be spelled by everbody. Many people dont know the difference so chill out. --Whiplash 15:43, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
 * If favourite was ever spelled favorite, it should be corrected. JalYt-Xil-Vimescarrot  17:58, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Building floor numbering
The British and European first floor is the American, Asian, and former Soviet Union second floor. It could be very confusing when using some other fan site quest guides to figure out which floor you need to be on. While it is easy to implement a British spelling for this site, it would be confusing for non-British players to remember the floor numbering system. I suggest using the following guidelines: and going down See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floor_numbering Chrislee33 23:55, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Ground level or first level
 * second level (instead of first floor (British) or second floor (American))
 * third level and so on....
 * top level or whatever its number
 * basement or first lower level
 * second lower level and so on... Any feedback?
 * Normally I'm all for sticking to the British convention, but this would be confusing as hell for any non-Brit. The clarity that comes from using American/non-Brit conventions outweighs the pact to stick to the Brit version.  Basically--Brits will be able to figure out what we mean when we say first, second and third floors...but non-Brits would have a lot of trouble with ground, first, second.  Especially when they're intermingled in the same article...
 * I recently edited both the Wizards' tower and Wizards' Guild articles to be written with British flooring numbering. However, I included in American translation only once for each floor to avoid confusion. Do you like it?, or would you a tiny template at the top stating that there are differences between the American and British Englishes instead?--64supernoob 05:25, 11 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Jagex uses the British convention in the Knowledge Base. So, articles should follow the British convention. A template at the top of articles using floors would be a great idea. Chrislee33 06:59, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Here is Template:Floor which looks like this: ⌊undefined⌋. Chrislee33 07:34, 11 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Maybe we could use something like many of the RPG games that exist, where the "ground" floor is F1, and the floor below it is BF1 (Basement Floor 1). Oddlyoko 03:14, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Capitalization
"When referring to a skill (not an action), the name of that skill should be capitalised."

That's just silly ... Why make English capitalization even more complex than it really is? The skill names are common nouns. --Paania 16:29, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Because it's done like that in-game. JalYt-Xil-Vimescarrot  16:32, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
 * That's not very convincing. A game publisher is hardly the epitome of language and style. --Paania 16:45, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
 * We're a website based on RuneScape, and the terminology is unique to RuneScape (nothing else has such things as Crafting or Smithing as nouns instead of verbs) so we use the RuneScape version. JalYt-Xil-Vimescarrot  16:58, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
 * No, there's nothing "unique" about such terms, and even if there were, it wouldn't warrant capitalization. (They're more like the names of sporting events, such as "cycling", "slalom" or "triathlon".) I still think this is a nonsense guideline. (/me shrugs and says goodnight :-) --Paania 22:17, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Mmm k. It's still the RuneScape use, which is why we use it. Whether their language is correct or not doesn't really apply. It's not just in-game, they use it in their letters too. And crafting could refer to anything that you can craft (I don't know much about technical terms but I don't see why you wouldn't be able to craft a sword) wheras Crafting specifically refers to the skill of Crafting and what can be done with it. Am I making sense, it's nearly midnight...*yawn* lols goodnight :) JalYt-Xil-Vimescarrot  23:43, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I think it doesn't warrant capitalization in a sentence like "I'm crafting some amulets" but if the sentence is "I'm training my Crafting" then it makes sense to capitalize it. . . .And yes, I know this discussion is several months old. --
 * I second that. As a noun referring to the skill itself should be capitalised, but as a verb referring to using a skill then lower case is fine.  Leevclarke 00:59, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree. Capitalise unless it is used as a verb referring to using a skill. "I am crafting tiaras." "I am training Crafting, a production skill." Prgmbeta 06:36, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

You or The Player? for quests/minigames
Moved from Talk:Sorceress's Garden

I know "the player" is our standard format, but to be honest I think "you" is more appropriate. Thoughts? JalYt-Xil-Vimescarrot 19:04, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

I was told to use "player". --Zkz100 21:59, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

That was the way it was per RuneScape:Style - Usage: Do not use the word you or your or any derivative, but rather a player or a player's.  The next sentence "The exception to this rule is in quest guides." was added Jan 30 by Vimescarrot. I've moved this section to RuneScape talk:Style for further discussion. Chrislee33 22:14, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, I was only really talking about changing it for Sorceress's Garden, I think it works fine for everything else... JalYt-Xil-Vimescarrot  22:19, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
 * It would apply to all walkthroughs for quests and minigames. I was using the word "player" instead of "you" when editing quest pages. It seems 'you' would be better for walkthroughs.  But keep 'player' for all other articles.  Chrislee33 23:11, 14 February 2007 (UTC)


 * After doing several guidelines for quests it find it fairly easy to avoid the use of both "you" or "a player". Simply using the imperative form removes the need to use the word "you" as it is implicit. Makes it pretty easy to comply with the style guide and avoid the rather awkward use of "a player". --Miw 11:17, 16 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Great idea. Imperative, ??? (quickly looks up imperative and Internet Grammar of English)... of course!!! Chrislee33 21:48, 16 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually I thought that use of the imperative (i.e. telling our users what to do, even in quest walkthroughs) was discouraged, and the user of phrases like "players can" or even "players should" or "players must" would be preferred. Leevclarke 00:59, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

so whatever became of this?
The last I recall regarding the usage of the word "you" or even "the player" (or "a player"), it was deemed to be better if reworded into imperative formatting. True? yes/no? 97.76.17.23 23:42, October 6, 2009 (UTC)

item (#)
"If you are compiling a list of drops for a monster in the Bestiary pages, please do not use brackets to denote quantities - instead of Nature runes (5,17,35) it should be 5, 17 or 35 Nature runes. The reason is that brackets can be part of the in-game description, and a monster that drops 2 full waterskins would be very confusing if the brackets system was used (e.g. Waterskin (4) (2) ). The same problem applies to potions."

That's what the guide says about listing item drops, but I disagree. It wouldn't be Waterskin (4) (2), it would be Waterskin(4) (2). I don't like the way it looks with the numbers first. --Wowbagger421 23:13, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Dates
Should dates be in the format of "April 25" or "25 April" or "April 25th" or what? --, 01:57, 26 April 2007
 * Jagex and most of the world use the International format (dd/mm/yyyy - 1 May 2008) rather than the American format (mm/dd, yyyy - May 1, 2008). Note that no commas are used in the International format. Chrislee33 07:56, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Here is a copy of a discussion I started on Category talk:Dates in RuneScape a couple of days ago, but I think this belongs here really.
 * Slightly horrified to find that the convention with dates on this wiki is date then month, rather than month then date as on Wikipedia. I know this wiki is supposed to follow British conventions, but I think this is just going to be confusing.
 * Can we make dates display according to preferences if the date and the year are linked, as on Wikipedia?
 * Should the pages for dates be in ascending or descending order of year? I have seen both here.  Wikipedia is ascending (i.e. oldest at the top, newest at the bottom).
 * Leevclarke 23:32, 14 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I found this discussion after making an update to the Category:Dates in RuneScape page, as i wanted to see the dates listed in order It's not the prettiest thing in code but for a quick hack it works well enough I think. And now for my responses to your questions/comments...
 * Personally I'm comfortable with the format other than i dislike how it does not sort (thus why i put the table of dates in.)
 * No idea on this one, I too am curious as i would love to see a solution that is not hard-coded.
 * Do Wikipedia dates include the year? answer:yes This list is circular and will only ever have 366 entries max (although we could start a betting pool as to which dates will be filled in next;).
 * 18:14, 19 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Check out June 27, and you will see events for this date ordered by year, with oldest at the top. Maybe I should bring this up on the yew grove.  Leevclarke, AKA Max Bulldog [[File:Bulldogh.gif]] 09:57, 27 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest we put them in ascending order in that case. Actually I'm strongly of the opinion that the dates should be listed in ascending order, the descending order seems counter-intuitive at best and just seems to breed more of that ever popular "newer is better" mentality, when the reality is that "Better is better" regardless of age. As such i believe reading the entries for the date should occur in the same order as the history occurred, and considering that this is not one of those negative-timespace universes time does indeed still flow forward.  18:43, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia uses both date formats (month before day or day before month). The subsection Strong national ties to a topic states: Articles on topics with strong ties to a particular English-speaking country should generally use the more common date format for that nation. For the U.S. this is month before day; for most others it is day before month.  Therefore, since Jagex is British, the format in this wikia should be day before month.  wikipedia:Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates and numbers). Chrislee33 20:54, October 8, 2009 (UTC)

Consolidation of articles
As a programmer, I follow the design pattern that code should never be duplicated. When you have the same information in two locations, it requires double the maintenance, which just isn't good. I follow the same philosophy on the wiki. We should never duplicate article content in another article, but should instead provide a link to the page on which the information belongs. Some examples: Could we include a directive in the style guide so that when we come across duplicated information, we have the rules to back us up when deleting those sections.
 * The list of furnaces and anvils were duplicated in the Smithing article before I deleted them.
 * How Agility used to be...with articles for courses basically embedded in the article itself


 * I have to agree. I quite recently formed a fairly complete and comprehensive guide to making flour under the Windmill article, but I am sure other versions exist under Pot of flour and probably other articles too.

Another link policy
Hey guys, I'm wondering if we might come to consensus about an idea I had for another linking policy. Basically, I've been seeing a lot of linking going on that links to two targets from a single concept. Some examples:


 * Barrows minigame
 * Crafting skill
 * The Desert Treasure quest

I really get annoyed when I see these, because you're basically redirecting a certain concept (such as the Crafting skill) to two destination articles. I would think the examples above should be

What are your thoughts? I kind of want to make a policy for this, as reverting the additions of these useless secondary links seems wrong without a rule in the style guide to back it up.
 * Barrows minigame
 * Crafting skill or Crafting skill.
 * The Desert Treasure quest (or better just, Desert Treasure)


 * Oops... Then I guess I've been getting on your nerves, huh? It's a habit... *puppy-dog eyes* Sowwy... Anyway, I'm neutral on this. =( 04:59, 24 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Lol, perhaps, but I wasn't about to veto your changes based on my preference; I want to see what others think first. Personally, what worries me is that people will tend to click on the second word of something like crafting skill and naturally assume it'd go to the crafting article, not the "skills" article.
 * I prefer the second part. Barrows minigame, Crafting skill, and just Desert Treasure.--Richard (Talk - Contribs) 18:46, 24 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I prefer a mixture of the two. I think there should be a policy of the link text being the same as the target article where reasonably unambiguous; indeed the two should differ as little as possible, to make it clear to the user where they are being redirected to when they follow the link.  This is the policy in Wikipedia, and it makes sense.  Specifically:
 * Barrows, a minigame
 * The Crafting skill
 * Desert Treasure, a quest


 * I really like the latter: The Desert Treasure quest (or better just, Desert Treasure). Prgmbeta 02:24, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

External links reference
Wikipedia has some guidelines on their use of external links which might be used here. Wikipedia:Wikipedia:External links. Chrislee33 03:22, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Numbers now using commas for xp
Jagex is now using commas in experience numbers in the Stats interface with the 12 November 2007 Update:Assist System and Skills Interface. Also, the RS Knowledge Base uses commas for thousands separators and period for decimal markers. Example: Farming - Seeds. Commas are also used in 4-digit numbers as well. Unless there are objections, the Numbers style guidelines will be changed from using a non-breaking space (type in "&amp;nbsp;", no quotes) to a comma to follow Jagex's usage which players will be exposed to in the game. Chrislee33 20:48, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The KB Quest Experience Pages do not use either a comma or space for thousands separator which makes it harder to read the 5+ digit numbers. For Barrows equipment prices  the k is used for thousands; e.g. Barrows weapons: 100k.  Most players will be using the Stats interface and the right justification and comma there make it easter to read the xps. Chrislee33 21:47, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Internationally, we are encouraged to use a non-breaking space, since users in continental Europe will see a comma as a decimal point. On this wiki I think the "correct" policy is to be in-keeping with Jagex's conventions, whether best practice or not.  Therefore, use commas (against even my better judgement).  Leevclarke 00:59, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Spelling of words, U.K. or American
Is there any way to open this topic up to potential change? Or is it too locked ? I believe that since most users are Americans ( I looked at about 20 user pages) and since wikia itself is based in America, American spelling should be prevelant. To counter the arguement that RS itself is based in the U.K., I would argue that the spelling is similar to translating to a native tongue. A site based in Mexico would use spanish.
 * Yes, let's talk about spanish. There are MANY different dialects of the spanish language, where as someone from Ecuador would say or spell a word differently from someone from Spain. England and America are no different. Because the game is created and based out of England, whereas the company uses british versions of spelling in the game itself, it is my vote that we continue to follow the guideline as it is now. 06:20, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I have to aggree with As I DK, because the in-game spelling is what we're aiming for. We shouldn't have a problem redirecting pages like "Rune armor" to "Rune armour" for error prevention, however, I don't think that using a differant spelling than what's in game would work out well. It would confuse users. Imagine looking for "Rune Armour Set (L)", and not being able to find it because it was "Rune Armor Set (L)".. wouldn't that annoy you, especially knowing you're typing it correctly RIGHT FROM THE GAME? 06:29, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Actually, no. I always check with the spelling as I know it before I look any other way. I am not trying to be argumentative.
 * Check section 2 above, "English Spelling", which I think encompasses your point. The real issue is not UK vs. US spelling, it is making the spelling here correspond with the in-game spelling, which is usually British (for an exception, see Jewellery (item)).  Leevclarke 00:59, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Ownership and bias
Regarding ownership and bias, i strongly believe this policy should be explicitly expanded to include images since they are another avenue of allowing player names into the wiki, which is already clearly spelled out as a no-no for articles. 18:46, 4 July 2008 (UTC)


 * While I agree that "ownership" of articles is a bad thing when somebody refuses to allow others to add edits (I've had that happen more than once on Wikipedia) I don't understand what you are implying here with this image ownership expansion.


 * I have voiced my opinion of "personal images" on the Yew grove and unfortunately what you are complaining about here seems to be an outgrowth of the current (IMHO excessively) strict policy of no personal image uploads. Since users can't upload a picture of their P.O.H. or of an outfit that they think looks awesome, they have to somehow incorporate that outfit into an article.


 * So, what exactly are you trying to propose here that you think ought to be considered unacceptable in terms of image ownership? --Robert Horning 14:25, 10 July 2008 (UTC)


 * In particular I am referring to images that contain player names. For instance when i upload images i usually edit the names to be that of an NPC even if it means doing a little pixel manipulation (such as the ignore list example and this FoG related image).  23:22, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Pluralizing wikilinks
Since I got chewed out on my user page about this issue, I'm rasing the point here.

The style guide, as currently written, recommends the following:


 * "Use efficient link formats, especially for plurals. For example, do lobsters instead of lobsters ."

For myself, this is a pet peeve of mine to even see words broken up with only a part of the word hyperlinked. It also doesn't deal with things like wolves instead of wolfves, which is not only a mis-spelling of nasty proportions but looks ugly too!

From an aesthetic viewpoint, I think the partial words linked simply look ugly. As a guideline, this breaks down in a number of ways when the "s" isn't the only way to pluralize the word, and this completely missing the point about how links can and should be used.

Even further, this suggestion about "efficient wikilinks" is something I simply don't get either. Where it says:


 * "When a skill is linked to, the name of the skill should be used, not a short form or a different spelling of it. Instead of saying "this item can be mined by..." you should state "this item can be obtained through the Mining skill by ...."

This is something that I also strongly disagree with on a more than one level. Straight-jacketing the text of the prose that is being written so that we can conform with the terms as the articles are named on the wiki is something completely unnecessary.

More to the point, this is an incredibly archaic suggestion that goes back to the early days of Ward's wikiwiki when CamelCaseHyperlinking was necessary to put the links into articles. And yes, I was one of the early users of Ward's wiki. It worked then, but it did create all kinds of problem... and that is precisely why the "inefficient" method of linking to content that has completely different spelling relationship to the content you are linking to was created in the first place, together with redirects and other editorial tools.

This is demanding efficiency when none is needed, and indeed forcing an editorial change when there are explicit tools to allow much more creativity in how you write the things you are writing. The few extra letters that are added to the database by making one of these "inefficient" hyperlinks is trivial... and something that clearly isn't demanded either by the Mediawiki software.

I consider these guidelines to be rules explicitly designed to be rules that can control the actions of others in a despotic fashion, and have nothing at all to do with writing good prose and developing a clean tool that can help share knowledge about Runescape. Far from agreeing with these rules, I would explicitly teach new users to do the exact opposite of what is recommended in this part of the style guide. I strongly disagree with this guideline, and indeed would prefer to see it simply removed altogether or suggesting the opposite guideline. --Robert Horning 14:12, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Piped link help page some good reading there. Seems to me that using pipes to insert links to similar pages in context is encouraged. If the link to the page doesn't fit the sentence, according to this, the pipe is used. Almost seems as if that's the sole purpose.  Just what I understood though.

14:29, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * So why does this style guide seem to suggest such piped links ought not be permitted under any circumstance? I'm really trying to find a defender of this recommended style and what purpose it serves.  Once upon a time, when CamelCase was how you provided links and other technical issues for hyperlinks, and such a guideline would not only be suggested but encouraged.  But it has been years since such technical reasons for guidelines like these ought to even be followed.  I'm strongly suggesting this is an archaic guideline that needs to go.  --Robert Horning 23:40, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Directional Spelling
I am looking for some guidance. There are many references to directions in the Wiki but a seeming lack of consistency. I see the word "southwest" and "south-west" used throughout as well as the other cardinal points. Is there a guide rule for a consistent representation of these directions? I know this is a trivial point, but such is the nature of Wikis. Emerson said “A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds” which proves to me he would have loved Runescape! Please, post your thoughts on this. Hatchenator 14:58, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Since the wiki uses the British variation of spellings, I think its "south-west", and not "southwest". That's the British way.   18:31, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the note. I will adhere to the British spelling rule with my edits.  Hatchenator 17:40, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Rules about linking to official RuneScape forum
I've checked the wiki guidelines as thoroughly as I could, but I still don't know... are we allowed to link to threads on the RuneScape forum, and is this the right place to ask? ._. I've hyperlinked to to cite a source in regards to my edit of the Penguin H&S article. It seems important to ask, though, because hyperlinks to threads on most forums tend to end up as dead links... if it's against the rules or there's a consensus against it, I'll promptly remove the link. Lord Zurkov 22:39, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think there are any rules against linking forums. However, I would personally discourage it since forums are constantly changing, and there is a high possibility of the link being broken after a while (unless it is a sticky post).   15:40, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Linking to such dynamic forums is not ideal, but if you're citing a source (e.g. for what a mod said in a forum post) then it is certainly preferable over having no source at all. Even though links tend to become broken, it is quite often possible to access an archived version (for example via Archive.org), but these usually take months to become available.  Do use ref tags in conjunction with the Cite web template, and include as much information as possible (see the template documentation - it's essentially the same as it is on Wikipedia).   23:05, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Equipment Bonuses
What format should be used for a value of zero in Template:Infobox Bonuses and Template:Infotable Bonuses header (etc)? Some articles use "0", which is mathematically correct as zero has no sign, whereas others use "+0", which is what is used ingame. Personally, as much as it's incorrect, I'm leaning towards "+0", since we try to use things as they are ingame. (Hence, I have been adding pluses to zeros whenever I find them.) Which do we think should be used, and a note hould be added to the style guide about it (after a decision is made). 19:58, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I vote "+0". It's a bonus to whatever it's applied to, and the "+" suggests that. Lord Zurkov 12:58, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Capitalisation
So I know that you need to capitalise certain words; skills, items, etc. But how many times in the article? Every time the word is mentioned or just once? Throne Room has many examples; do you capitalise player-owned house? Oubliette? Even throne room, which the article title is capitalised as but the opening sentence is not.

Thanks. ~ intro spect. 14:07, October 7, 2009 (UTC)


 * This is an issue of a proper noun. The English language has some ambiguous rules (like everything else in English) in regards to how you use proper nouns, but typically they should always be capitalized.  Some of it is how the word is being used in context, such as "The Player-owned House is a useful place for players to show off their skills".


 * As the Wikipedia article points out, the German language currently and pre-1800 English language usage capitalized all nouns regardless of their context. That generally isn't considered a good writing style in current style guides, but it is an interesting historical view to consider.  From a linguistic perspective, 200 years is not really that much time.


 * Typically I capitalize all nouns that are linked to other articles, or are about specific examples of things in the game. The King Black Dragon is an example of a proper noun, but black dragons are found in several different places and are more ordinary.  A good rule of thumb is to ask if you are making a reference to something specific and unique, or something that can be found in many places in the game.  Taking a bucket to a well in order to get a Bucket of Water is another way to demonstrate how capitalization sometimes works.


 * Is this clear as thick mud? I suppose.  That is one of the things that makes writing in English so enjoyable, and where even those who have spent the time to master the language still have opinions and attitude about how things should be done that aren't always consistent.  --Robert Horning 11:32, October 8, 2009 (UTC)

Concerning a 'Common Grammatical Errors' Section
While editing the wiki, I find a lot of contributors, even veteran editors, misspell or use the wrong word. Example: "there sword" when they mean "their sword". Something along the lines of what Necrohol from Dark Runescape Wiki did... What do you guys think? Prgmbeta 02:19, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

then and than

Despite their pronunciations being very similar, they are different in meaning.

then is used in one of the three following cases:

1. at that time; at the time in question
 * e.g.
 * I was living in Cairo then.

2. after that; next; afterward
 * e.g.
 * She won the first and then the second game.

3. in that case; therefore
 * e.g.
 * If you do what I tell you, then there's nothing to worry about.
 * Well, that's okay, then.

Whereas than is used in either introducing the second element in a sentence (He was much smaller than his son.) or in expressions introducing exceptions or contrasts (He claims not to own anything other than his home.).

its and it's

Yet another common error is its and it's.

Its is a possessive adjective, meaning it describes an object or anything that associates with an item and/or animal.
 * e.g.
 * He chose this area for its atmosphere

On the other hand, it's is a contraction (shortcut) for it is OR it has.
 * e.g.
 * it is - It's my fault.
 * it has - It's been a hot day.