RuneScape:Requests for deletion/Fake image/Archive 2

Fake image
Current Votes:

Support (for deletion): 3

Oppose: 4

Right, I never understood why we had this in the first place, so I'm nominating it for deletion. When I go to RuneScape wiki, I expect to find articles on quests, on items, on skills; not some little 12-(or 14 so Chia doesn't get all pissy on me..again..)-year-old boy's fantasy version of the game. This information could really be found somewhere on the net if one so desired, but I can't think of anyone who would actually come to the wiki site and say "Oh, man I really need an article on fake images, I'm positive the RuneScape wiki would have one." What normal person immediately associates RuneScape with fakes, then RuneScape wiki with the same thing? I don't expect any other fansite to have anything about fake images, and I dunno why we do either. Not to mention that this article encourages users to upload fakes to the wiki, in direct opposition to our new policy. I dunno how many people will support this (because obviously all the fake-makers will oppose) but here goes nothing. Christine Talk 15:07, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Support (for deletion) I agree with most of what you've said, however, there are many fan sites who hold contests for fake RuneScape images.  I think it's pretty pathetic myself, like you, I don't go on the wiki looking for fakes, I look for useful information that can help me, not fake images that usually aren't that well done.   15:15, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

I added in a vote count (oops) and I assume you support it for deletion Tirrian. But change it if I'm wrong. Do we really need a "neutral" count? And we don't hold contests, so I see no reason. Christine Talk 15:21, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with you, fakes are not directly related to RuneScape. 15:38, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose - If we should not have an article on Fake images then it is easy to say that we shouldn't have one on wtf. They're both not real things/words. Both part of the community. It should stay because many players in RuneScape create them and they are, or should go, under the community category. However, if it might tempt or encourage people to upload fakes there should be a note on the page telling players not to do so, reminding them of the policy. Don't say "oh well your vote doesn't count because you're a fake maker" because that's a stupid thing to say. I do not see how an article would effect a person's making fakes nor do I make fakes anymore and so I feel the entire idea of this is... idiotic. Perhaps they're not part of the game but they still do mean something to many users who play RuneScape and I think a few other sites have articles on fakes. 15:55, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I think the whole slang category is pointless, and would love for that to be deleted also (but it won't happen).
 * I wasn't going to say that your vote didn't count, don't just assume you know what you're talking about; you don't.
 * Don't call anything I do "idiotic"
 * I can nominate the RuneScape article for deletion if I really wanted. There are no guidelines. If I think this article should be deleted then I have every right to nominate it. I have stated my reasons, and they aren't idiotic. However, you insulting me was. Christine Talk 16:05, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I've never made a fake in my life but I think that fakes are a part of the RuneScape community. Lots of fansites have things about fakes. RuneHQ even has a whole forum and tutorials dedicated to them.
 * Ugh, I hate this. Everyone always say that. We are not RuneHQ. We are a wiki, a version of Wikipedia, which is like an encyclopedia. We aren't like every other fansite! Anyone can edit here, we can have discussions here, that's what's good about us. Don't say that just because RuneHQ has something, that we automatically have to. And sign your posts. Christine Talk 16:10, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Oppose - Below I will list the examples shown in the Good Cases section of the RuneScape Wiki Deletion policy, then give my explanation:


 * A page which contains information that has very little chances of becoming a real page. For example, a page with just "wow i love runescape so much don't you? lol" isn't helping anyone. Pages like this will be deleted. - It has real, useful, helpful information.


 * Pages containing original research or a large bias. For example, "According to a poll I conducted among my friends, RuneScape member subscriptions are too expensive." This doesn't help at all and it's personal opinion. These pages will be deleted. - It doesn't contain original research or bias.


 * User pages can be deleted only if the user requests it. It is impossible to delete an account, though the user page can be deleted. - It isn't a user page.


 * Vanity pages. For example, "hi my name is Bob and i play RuneScape every day. my main character is lvl 100 and i have ten other characters, also." These pages are pointless and contribute nothing to the wiki. - It's not a vanity page. None of the fakes shown make anyone's RuneScape character look amazingly powerful. In fact, none of the examples even display any individual's character!


 * Advertising and spam. Posting random websites or things like "Google is awful; try Brand X Search Engine free for 10 days!" aren't contributing anything to the wiki. - It doesn't advertise or spam. Although it names a variety of programs which may be used to create fake images, it doesn't advertise these programs as exceptional or advantageous over other programs, nor does it name websites where these programs may be bought/downloaded.


 * Pages that are nonsense. For example, pages with titles such as "dahoshagohfoug" or "haovhauhgbovaov" have no point in being on this wiki. - Ok, it isn't nonsense.


 * Copyright violations. Taking images/pages from a website that say they are to be used only on their sites should not be used. These include fan sites. - None of the images or information on the page is taken from another website, besides the in-game images, which Jagex gives permission for.


 * Useless or incorrect redirects. For example, one like #REDIRECT: That one guy in RUneScape isn't helping anyone. - It isn't a redirect.


 * Useless or incorrect categories, like a "poop" category. - It isn't a category.


 * Useless or incorrect templates, like a "poop" template. - It isn't a template.


 * Pages in another language. This wiki is English, no other languages are allowed. - It's in English.

I believe Fake image should stay on the RuneScape Wiki because:


 * 1) It doesn't violate any of the rules in the RuneScape Wiki deletion policy, so there's no real case to delete it in the first place.
 * 2) It is a well-organized, helpful, how-to article which gives a basic guide to an integral part of RuneScape, just like our guide to avoiding cheats and scams. We must keep in mind that RuneScape is only a game, but its vast community has a culture similar to any real-world community, and important elements of that culture, such as fake images, are as relevant to the RuneScape Wiki as the article on the game itself. Not only should we have an article on fakes, but we should have articles on other fansites as well - as long as they remain neutral and factual. Those fansites are equally important to RuneScape culture.
 * 3) It describes a fairly complex topic in a simple and concise manner; it describes advanced process such as making animations, but it doesn't go over a beginner's head.
 * 4) It represents a large contribution made by its authors who put a significant effort into creating and uploading the examples and writing and revising the article.

I don't make fakes. I'd have to have a guide in front of me to even start making one. A guide such as our article - simple and helpful. Fake image is truly one of our few high-quality articles. This has even been recognized when it was nominated in the spring for Featured Article of the Month. I believe it's even a better article than some of the articles we have featured, but has been snubbed because of criticism about being irrelevant or useless. In actuality, it's quite the opposite. It has room for improvement, sure, every article does. It could use a few more examples, and could go a little more in-depth. But there's certainly no reason to delete it. 16:45, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * How do fake images benefit the wiki? <Font face=Sylfaen><font color=RoyalBlue>Christine <Font face=Sylfaen><font color=LimeGreen>Talk 17:01, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

How does any article benefit the wiki? A wiki is about a topic. Our topic is RuneScape. Fake images of RuneScape are within our topic. I'm not saying we should include random fakes from across the web. Why do I have to spell this out?

Some excerpts from an argument in the IRC:


 * [12:46] <ChristineV> I told you I read your reasons
 * [12:46] <Gangsterls> so then why did u say there was no reason to keep it
 * [12:46] <Gangsterls> i gave like 4
 * [12:47] <ChristineV> And I say that it is not directly related to RS, anything can be made into a fake
 * [12:47] <ChristineV> And my stupid apple tree died again
 * [12:47] <Gangsterls> and then i said that the article was about RS fakes and that it's a part of RS culture
 * [12:47] <Gangsterls> there's a reason
 * [12:47] <ChristineV> How is it part of RS culture?
 * [12:47] <Tesfan> What's wrong with using imageshack?
 * [12:47] <Gangsterls> nothing
 * [12:47] <ChristineV> I've never heard of anyone on RS talking about fakes
 * [12:48] <Gangsterls> how come like 20 users have subpages full of fakes?
 * [12:48] <ChristineV> THIS ISN'T RS
 * [12:48] <Gangsterls> because it's part of the game
 * [12:48] <ChristineV> They have fakes because the article is on the wiki!
 * [12:48] <Gangsterls> it's a fansite it's part of rs culture itself
 * [12:48] <Gangsterls> no they had fakes before the article was made
 * [12:48] <ChristineV> Its not really a fansite
 * [12:49] <Gangsterls> they wrote the article because they liked fakes
 * [12:49] <Gangsterls> oh no?
 * [12:49] <ChristineV> We're not like everyone else
 * [12:49] *** mode/#rswiki [+o Tesfan] by ChristineV
 * [12:49] <Gangsterls> just cuz we aren't like other fansites doesn't make us not a fansite
 * [12:49] <Tesfan> Sorry for repeting my self, but what's wrong with using imageshack?
 * [12:49] <Gangsterls> i said nothed
 * [12:49] <ChristineV> Nothing
 * [12:49] <Gangsterls> nithing*
 * [12:49] <Gangsterls> nothing*
 * [12:49] <Tesfan> So then whats the argument about?
 * [12:49] <Gangsterls> if we aren't a fansite then what are we
 * [12:50] <ChristineV> Deleting the ARTICLE fake image
 * [12:50] <Tesfan> ahh
 * [12:50] <Gangsterls> it's a good article
 * [12:50] <ChristineV> Its not needed
 * [12:50] <Gangsterls> nothing you say makes it a bad article
 * [12:50] <Gangsterls> it is it's part of the culture
 * [12:51] <Gangsterls> there's an entire internet culture that's what user-generated content is all about
 * [12:51] <Gangsterls> wikipedia, youtube, myspace are all about ugc
 * [12:51] <Gangsterls> and so are fakes and gaming culture
 * [12:51] <Gangsterls> we're a wiki. we're all about ugc
 * [12:52] <ChristineV> No, we're all about RS
 * [12:52] <ChristineV> To be technical
 * [12:52] <Gangsterls> everything on the wiki is user-generated content
 * [12:52] <Gangsterls> it's the RS WIKI
 * [12:52] <ChristineV> The fakes that people make are not BENEFITTING the wiki
 * [12:52] <Gangsterls> there's two parts to that
 * [12:52] <Gangsterls> 1. RS
 * [12:52] <Gangsterls> 2. WIKI
 * [12:52] <Gangsterls> wiki - user-generated content
 * [12:52] <ChristineV> The fakes that people make are not BENEFITTING the wiki
 * [12:52] <Gangsterls> RS - game
 * [12:53] <Gangsterls> RS + WIKI = Fakes, fansite, forums
 * [12:53] <Gangsterls> they're benefitting our visiters
 * [12:53] <Tesfan> If I may offer a sugesstion, the Slang pages have nothing do to with RS
 * [12:53] <Gangsterls> who are rs players and might want to learn how to make fakes
 * [12:53] <Gangsterls> yes they do!
 * [12:53] <ChristineV> Have you read the discussion page Tes?
 * [12:53] <Gangsterls> culture! culture! culture!
 * [12:53] <ChristineV> Ilyas brought that up too
 * [12:53] <Gangsterls> those words are used in-game all the time

RuneScape slang, fakes, and this entire wiki and all other fansites are all part of the game's culture. As an encyclopedia about the game AND a part of its culture, we should have articles on not only the in-game elements of RuneScape, but the elements of its community which give it its culture. If you've heard of Web 2.0, you've heard about user-generated content. This entire wiki and all of its content was generated by us - its users. User-generated content is a huge part of internet culture, and includes sites such as Wikipedia, YouTube, Myspace, Facebook, and countless others, including ALL WIKIS. And since wikis are encyclopedias with a given topic - ours being RuneScape, we should include its culture as well. For what other reason would you guys sit in front of a computer every day than to play games or do whatever else you want? And everything that people do for fun on the internet is just another part of internet culture - wikis included. Don't go all psychologist on me. 17:08, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * How was I going all psychologist on you? <Font face=Sylfaen><font color=RoyalBlue>Christine <Font face=Sylfaen><font color=LimeGreen>Talk 17:14, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The people who were on IRC right now might have seen my arguement with Christine. I'm in no mood to copy it but it seems pointless to be so technical. Saying that fakes aren't technicaly part of the game that Andrew Gower and his staff actualy designed is like saying that chocolate is bad for you because it's a drug, which is true but not how most people look at it. Fakes are part of the community of the game and the player built culture, not what jagex themselves put in the game. Christine, open your eyes and look at this from all viewpoints, not only one. 17:34, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Oppose - But I think the article should have information at the top of it as to where people should put there fake images (links to other servers that can be used). That way, if there are discussions about fake images in future, then the article can be used as reference as to what people should do with them. If hightlighted adequately, then it can be used to discourage people uploading fakes to the wiki server itself. 17:38, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

OPPOSE! - I'm not opposing as a fake maker, I'm opposing as an editor, a reader and a player. Fakes are fun. The article has A LOT of information! Why delete such a nice article? It has a step-by-step how-to, it explains what a fake is, and has been nominated for featured article. 3 times! Why? Because it had a lot of information! The buddies article is more worthy of being deleted than this. Why is it not being put up for deletion? Because buddies has plenty of information there. The fake image article has 4 times the information. Of buddies, an article that has plenty.

Christine, I got "pissed" at you earlier for calling it a "little" boys fantasy, then made a refernce to me. And I'm not 14 either... 00:53, 11 July 2007 (UTC)