Talk:Squeal of Fortune/Archive 3

50m coin reward?
Can someone confirm whether or not this is true or false, and if so, I or someone else will clean it up. Heal ppl 01:33, March 4, 2012 (UTC)

I do believe that is false. 02:10, March 5, 2012 (UTC)

It is very much false! Jagex has defined the rewards. Sojurnstrs 06:59, March 6, 2012 (UTC)

Possible Items
Can anyone explain why the possible items area says that (m) indicates member-only items and only a few select items under "Members only items" sections of the table have this indicator?
 * The members only sections are ALL members only, so don't need the (m) indicator. 07:07, March 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * ~Indeed, which is why I was wondering why some of the members only sections had (m) indicators. Anyway, I don't think I see them anymore, so you can ignore this now.

The chance of getting a divine
I decided to calculate the chance of receiving a divine spirit shield. These calculations are extremely likely incorrect as there are no confirmed chances of anything, but it should give you a rough idea.

There are about 30 very rare items, according to the wiki. I'll take a chance of 1% to get on the very rare item slot, though that is probably not right.

If you get at the very rare item slot, the divine would have to be there.

The chance of a divine being on the very rare slot is 100/30=3.33%.

0.0333*0.01=0.000333=0.0333%.

Now, I will calculate the amount of spins needed to have a 50% chance of getting a divine. If you are a member, you can divide it by two.

n is the number of days required.

1-0.000333=0.999667

0.999667^n=0.5

Using my calculator, I found that 0.999667^2080 is roughly 0.5.

So according to my calculations, which of course aren't very precise, a member would have to spin over 2000 times, which is over 1000 days, which is about 3 years, to have a chance of 50% of receiving a divine.

So I don't think the market will be flooded by divines.

EDIT: according to the jagex RS wiki, some rare items are much rarer than others. I think I can divide the chance by 50. That would get:

0.000333/50=6.66*10^-6

(1-6.66*10^-60)^10400 is about 0.5, so it would take roughly 10400 spins to get a 50% chance. 10400/2=5200

5200/365=14.24 years.

14.24 years is quite a lot of time (actually, it is about as long as RS exists).

Does anyone have something to add to it, like more precise chances of getting at the very rare item slot? 11:44, March 4, 2012 (UTC)


 * According to the Jagex RS wiki, some rare/super-rare items are much, much rarer than others. I guess I can divide the chance by 50, I might do that in a moment. 12:10, March 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * I did it. 12:16, March 4, 2012 (UTC)

While none of those 46 f2p charaters of mine haven't gotten 10m pot in the wheel even once within last whole week, i've gotten 5 times 10m pot on my p2p acc already, within same time... I even had 2 × 10m pots in the wheel at same time once! Yet, ofc obv, at all those 5 times of 10m possibility, not gotten any. But the point is that it's either 10 × rarer to get 10m pot even to the wheel in f2p than p2p, eh? Or then thou haven't put that price to f2ps wheels, what...


 * I haven't seen it yet either, on multiple accounts (all F2P). I'll let you know if I do. 14:41, March 6, 2012 (UTC)


 * I had 2 10M pots in a row on f2p over consecutive days, but I haven't seen it since. My p2p account seems to have it showing up every day! Corbiere 09:06, March 9, 2012 (UTC)


 * Have seen it once @ a F2P account, never at my main. ;-). -- 16:22, March 6, 2012 (UTC)
 * ^thanks!(46 batallioneer)

Ring of Wealth does not work
Is this statement correct? Should it not be added to the article? 14:19, March 13, 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm assuming it is implicit -- the ring of wealth is already known to just increase your chances of getting better rare DROPS. Why would anyone assume it works here?

Buying Spins
Well now Jagex are allowing real world trading, by letting you buy spins for real world money. This is an all time low for Jagex in my opinion. Your views? BasementJaxx 10:33, April 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * This is not a forum. Please go elsewhere to discuss this. 82.170.83.11 11:10, April 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * I didnt claim it was a forum, it is however a discussion page, hence my discussion. It just goes to show that trolls are everywhere, maybe you should be the one finding a somewhere else to troll...... BasementJaxx 12:45, April 2, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, it is real world trading. Despite whatever lame excuse Jagex comes up with. -Captain Metaphor

95 spins
So I bought 75 spins today, and got some double spin tickets and was able to do 95 spins on one account. here's what I got, for statistical purposes:

95 spins:

Lamps:

small xp lamp (fishing) (x3)

small xp lamp (x3)

small xp lamp (Smithing) (x1)

small xp lamp (dungeoneering) (x1)

small xp lamp (smithing) (x1)

small xp lamp (ranged) (x1)

small xp lamp (defence) (x1)

small xp lamp (mining) (x1)

Total small xp lamps: 12 (1 out of 7)

medium xp lamp (x12) (1 out of 8 spins)

medium xp lamp (cooking) (x1)

medium xp lamp (summoning) (x1)

medium xp lamp (construction) (x1)

medium xp lamp (runecrafting) (x1)

medium xp lamp (thieving) (x1)

medium xp lamp (constitution) (x1)

medium xp lamp (fishing) (x1)

Total medium xp lamps: 19 (1 out of 5 spins)

Items sorted by frequency:

50x Coins (x23) (1 out of 4 spins)

double spin ticket (x10) (1 out of 10 spins)

3x Logs (x7)

adamant hatchet (x4)

green d'hide body (x3)

3x Gold ore (x2)

uncut sapphire (x2)

40x steel arrow (x2)

2x cowhide (x2)

5x Raw tuna (x1)

rune battleaxe (x1)

3x iron ore (x1)

silver ore x5 (x1)

rune scimitar (x1)

soft clay 2x (x1)

yew logs x2 (x1)

rune pickaxe (x1)

anchovy pizza (x1)

Hope this will be useful to somebody.

iLevi; at your service. 11:13, April 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * Whoa, that's an equivalent of 50 small lamps! Should we list this as a training method, even though it costs money? 21:14, April 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * I thought they supposedly removed some lower-value items? I guess 50gp isn't a low value? 00:39, April 3, 2012 (UTC)


 * This shit is soooooo RIGGED! I've spun over 200 times(Not all at once) and haven't gotten 1 rare item, it either stops before of after it, there's no point in it. Jagex will not allow it to stop directly on the Rare or Super rare item without a glitch... It's just not fucking possible.


 * It actually is possible... On first of April (yes it was Aprils Fools, but Im not joking...) I got lucky Armadyl Chainskirt. Since I had original skirt, I could sell it and thus save 12.5 mill. But yes, I am pretty darn sure it is possible. (Btw, checking my Alog will not work long cause Im leveling a lot now, and no not by buying spins.......)


 * Never buy any sort of features that seems similar to gambling, when you can earn the spins naturally. This is the same concept for any f2p mmo, you are inevitably selling yourself to the business. Jagex is a business and not once was it about people. Today I managed to get about 4-6 spins, 2 daily and 3-4 spin tickets?
 * I find that Runescape players (the majority it seems) can't notice when someone is dangling a bait in front of them. 184.175.24.84 06:22, April 6, 2012 (UTC)Anonymous

Log of Spins
Log of Spins (83)

http://pastebin.com/Lm7MxFt8

Will we be covering the riots concering this new update? At this moment it's 2k+ posts of rants and counting...

60.50.17.188 16:39, April 2, 2012 (UTC)

Is there a limit to how many spins you can buy?
My friend says $200, but I can't find anything to verify it. If it is, is it weekly/daily, etc? and If so, someone should post evidence, like a screenshot saying the limit has been reached, or a Jmod post. 71.15.123.101 01:45, April 3, 2012 (UTC)


 * Would it make sense if Jagex "wanted" you to spend less money on them? Think about it really hard for a minute. 184.175.24.84 06:24, April 6, 2012 (UTC) Anonymous

Investors, Board members
http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/526/thediagramcor.png

A log of spins based off of YouTube videos
These are some spins I have copied off of YouTube videos. I'll list the link to the YouTube videos I am using as I go along so that others don't accidentally add information from the same video again:

- Runescape Sparc Mac's 75 Squeal of Fortune Spins! - Is it worth it? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHQ60i2n5Cc)

-

-

-

-

I'll scavenge for other YouTube videos with a good number of spins in them, and add them to this log. (Small and Medium refer to the lamps)

1 - Small (DUNGEON)

23 - 50 GP

2 - Small (SMITH)

2 - 3 coal

1 - 3 gold ore

9 - Medium

7 - Small

1 - Cut emerald

1 - Medium (DUNGEON)

2 - Small (STR)

6 - Double Spin

2 - Small (RC)

1 - Medium (COOK)

1 - Adamant hatchet

3 - 3 Law runes

3 - 2 Yews

2 - Rune pickaxe

1 - Medium (DEF)

1 - Rune longsword

1 - 3 logs

2 - Small (PRAY)

1 - Rune platebody

1 - Rune 2h

1 - 40 steel arrow

1 - Medium (FM)

1 - 2 raw swordfish

1 - 3 iron ore

1 - Medium (RANGED)

1 - Uncut sapphire

1 - Anchovy pizza

1 - Medium (CRAFT)

1 - Medium (RC)

1 - Medium (THIEF)

1 - 5 silver ore

Morconi87 21:41, April 6, 2012 (UTC)

Forum reaction
On the day of the update, a Jagex mod wrote a forum topic outlining the details of the update. Several thousand replies were made (almost exclusively negative) within hours) Jagex responded by deleting these replies and making it impossible to add any more replies to the post.

Jagex Ownership
It is worth noting that this has recently changed. Private equity investors, motivated only by obtaining a decent return for their investor's now hold over 50% of the voting rights of the company, explaining new, more aggressive marketing initiatives such as the squeal of fortune, refer a friend policy, bonus xp, auras etc.

Pertaining to "citation needed".

Note: This is for a subheading (Precedent) in the controversy section.

May I use Runescape forum threads, or screenshots, as citations? Or must I create a twitter account and obtain the original source? Tylermurphie 21:30, April 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * Citing the actual tweets in concern would be better rather than second hand sources 21:34, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

Gambling debate
There is a topic on the runescape forums about the fact that Jagex claims the Squeal of Fortune is not gambling and the tc uses the real-life equivilant of the SoF in comparison to challenge this claim.

I can't remember the QFC or title of the topic, however inside it the tc talked about how he contacted Caesar's Palace, a famous casino in Las Vegas, and asked them about one of their features, a wheel exactly the same as the SoF wheel, in their casino. He found out that despite the player winning an prize on every spin in return for the entry fee, they had to classify the wheel as gambling due to the player not recieving a set prize that was worth the value of the entry fee, and so is illegal for below 18s to play.


 * This is misleading at best. SquealOfFortune is NOT exactly like Big6. The wheel in the casino has multiple sections, but some occur more than others. You bet on which section the wheel will stop on. If your right you win, from doubling your money for the common occuring spaces and up to 40x your bet for the most rare. If you bet on one section, and it doesnt stop on that section you lose your whole bet. So you could theoretically never win on the Big6 wheel. But you can never lose on SOF. This is like comparing chalk and cheese. For the record, this is NOT gambling, you are buying a spin. Do you consider your monthly membership gambling? NO, yet its exactly the same, your spending money for ultimately nothing tangible in return. I also hate this update, and have since quit RS. Its also 21 to gamble in Vegas, and not 18, so I assume your source may be lying BasementJaxx 13:16, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

In comparison to SoF, it's apparantly NOT gambling because you win something every time, and apparantly a cabbage or a bucket is worth a spin (20p per spin if buying 75 spins). Would you say a bucket or a cabbage is worth 20p?


 * No. A cabbage is worth zero, but then so is a sara sword or a huge lamp. Everything is worth nothing. Its not gambling because you cant win cold hard cash, and it really is that simple. BasementJaxx 13:19, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

A person can legally play rs from the age of 13 onwards and SoF is gambling. Jagex is allowing and encouraging gambling for minors, Jagex are doing something against the law.


 * I think your correct about it being bad for younger players to be encouraged to gamble, and this activity certainly encourages that. But its not illegal. BasementJaxx 13:21, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

Could somebody please consider adding this to the 'Gambling' section of this article in a sensible manner?86.140.103.169 14:33, April 9, 2012 (UTC)


 * I would attempt this, being somewhat of a gambling know it all. However I think its a very tricky subject. I honestly dont think its gambling at all. Nor a lottery. You buy spins, you technically win nothing. In gambling you have a chance to gain money, but are always fighting negative exptectation in the form of the 'house edge'. In this game we have no idea what the house edge is, as Jagex has not disclosed the probabilities of each segment showing up. It could be a positive expectation game (but I doubt that). Its not a lottery either, if you win the lottery you have more money than you did when you started. Once you buy SOF spins, you have lost that money and there is no way to get it back. We need to start looking at this as an add-on to membership. Jagex claimed from the beginning that peoples real world wealth should not give you an in-game advantage, but they have been two-faced from the start and we all missed it. Anyone who could afford the membership fee had a massive advantage over anyone in free to play all along, and I think a lot of the younger players couldnt afford or wouldnt get the money from their parents to be able to play members in the first place. Do you think levelling prayer is a level playing field between f2p and members? What about monster drop potential? SOF is not gambling, its a tax for the lazy. BasementJaxx 11:11, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

making note of CC fix
there's a item table under Financial Security that seems very out of place.

also, it should be noted they altered the buy spins interface so that you must enter the 3 digit pin on the back of the card in order to make the purchase.

Heavyoak 10:33, April 27, 2012 (UTC)