Talk:Magic Damage

Issues with stacking
Do potion and equipment boosts simply add (10% staff and 15% potion giving 25%) or do you get compounded multiplication: (10% stafff and 15% potion giving 1.10*1.15= 126.5 so 26.5%)


 * As far as i am aware all boosts are as a percentage of your base level. ie 25% in above example.

Which is applied first chaos gauntlets +30 or percent boost. This will affect whether the +30 is boosted too.

Which is applied first Charge's +100 or percent boost. This will affect whether the +100 is boosted too.

Assumptions have been made in the article, but without knowing the rules the max hit calculator is more speculative than factual.

"the max hit calculator is more speculative than factual" is not true, only a few of these have such bonuses, so only they are speculative. Most of these are factual. D Boots R Us 20:53, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * its speculative because we do not know the exact max hit formula, we can only go off of what we have been told and experienced for ourselves. We should make that a policy. 21:09, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

There is a fault in our calculation assumptions. The calculator finds a max hit on Fire surge on an Ice strykewyrm with the Staff of light, Arcane stream necklace, Full slayer helm, and Fire cape equipped, after drinking Overload potion to be:

((280)*(100%+15%+15%+15%+21%)*2)+40 = 969.6 i.e. 969

however evidence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98EBOmS5MSQ shows it to be 1106 or more.


 * Maybe the leech magic prayer had an affect.


 * Maybe the slayer helm is applied after the other damage boosting items/ potions giving:

((280)*(100%+15%+15%+21%)*(100%+15%)*2)+40 = 1012.44 i.e. 1012 this still doesnt explain a hit of 1106.


 * Or maybe the potion boost is applied after the other damage boosting items giving:

((280)*(100%+15%+15%+15%)*(100%+21%)*2)+40 = 1022.52 i.e. 1022 this won't explain 1106


 * Applying visible stat % boosts then potion boosts then slayer helm gives:

((280)*(100%+15%+15%)*(100%+15%)*(100%+21%)*2)+40 = 1053.012 ... this won't explain 1106

Further evidence:

Player hitting 43 with Fire surge, 10% staff, castle wars 20% brace, 21% potion boost assumed. This is from before lifpoint/ dungeoneering updates:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1BPo5xp0JI

current formula states 28*(100%+10%+20%+21%) = 42.28 i.e. 42.

Same video CW miasmic barrage 10% staff, CW brace hits 49. Our formula says max of 48.32

Development of calculator

 * I can help if you want. 13:08, May 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * That would be really good of you... I copied the code from a smithing calc by 'the last username left' but couldn't find the calculation bit of the code. It might be a good idea to make it easy to edit the formula too, I'm not completely sure the order we think the boosts are applied in is correct.--De jour 19:30, May 20, 2010 (UTC)

There we go. I put it where the one was above. I didn't have time to add validation to it today, so regardless of input you will always get a value, even if its not actually possible - e.g. staff of light + god spells, castlewar brace+slayer helms, etc etc. I'll add that tomorrow. For now, the calculation code is here, the developer's manual for the calc script is here, and the wikiguild that maintains these calculators (and most other calculators on the wiki is here. 22:58, May 20, 2010 (UTC)

When the main author: Gaz Lloyd believes it is ready I suggest this is published by cutting and pasting it into the article, since copying it would create two versions which could evolve independently. I suggest putting it between special circumstances and max hit table:

Update: recent evidence has disproved our previous understanding of how stacking works so calculator is not ready for publication. De jour 20:25, May 25, 2010 (UTC)

I've removed the

Max hit Calculator
 template = Magic max hit form    = magicin result  = magicout param   = spell|Spell used|Wind Strike|select|Wind Strike,Water Strike,Earth Strike,Fire Strike,Wind Bolt,Water Bolt,Earth Bolt,Fire Bolt,Wind Blast,Water Blast,Earth Blast,Fire Blast,Wind Wave,Water Wave,Earth Wave,Fire Wave,Wind Surge,Water Surge,Earth Surge,Fire Surge,Crumble Undead,Magic Dart,Iban Blast,Saradomin Strike,Claws of Guthix,Flames of Zamorak,Snare,Entangle,Smoke Rush,Shadow Rush,Blood Rush,Ice Rush,Miasmic Rush,Smoke Burst,Shadow Burst,Blood Burst,Ice Burst,Miasmic Burst,Smoke Blitz,Shadow Blitz,Blood Blitz,Ice Blitz,Miasmic Blitz,Smoke Barrage,Shadow Barrage,Blood Barrage,Ice Barrage,Miasmic Barrage param   = level|Your base magic level|1|int|1-99 param   = boost|Temporary level boost used|None|select|None,Wizard's mind bomb,Mature wmb,Magic essence potion,Magic potion,Extreme magic potion,Overload,Magic focus scroll,Magic cape param   = staff|Damage boosting staff used|None|select|None,Gravite staff,Ahrim's staff,Ancient staff,Zuriel's staff,Master wand,Void knight mace,Staff of light,Chaotic staff param   = slay|Slayer-based helmet used|No|select|No,Hexcrest,Full slayer helm param   = cw|Castlewar brace in use?|No|select|No,Yes param   = neck|Necklace used|None|select|None,Arcane pulse necklace,Arcane blast necklace,Arcane stream necklace param   = chaos|Chaos gauntlets used?|No|select|No,Yes param   = ring|Ferocious ring active?|No|select|No,Yes param   = charge|Charge active?|No|select|No,Yes

param   = salarin|Fighting Salarin the Twisted?|No|select|No,Yes

Please wait for the calculator to load.

Please input your conditions and submit the calculator.

N.B. the way in which some boosts are stacked has not yet been confirmed; your result may be slightly inaccurate. Please use the talk page if you have any evidence you'd like to contribute.

Leech magic
Does this prayer affect your magic level?
 * if so will the affect be stacked with other boosts, and will it also give 3% extra damage per level?

Having researched it I'm pretty sure it doesn't affect your magic level or magic damage.--De jour 23:14, May 23, 2010 (UTC)

Snare, Entangle, Vengeance
Snare damages up to 20, entangle up to 50, and vengeance also deals damage. Should these spells be added to the tables? If so what effect (if any) do boosts have on them?

I know vengeance is unaffected, and I'm 99% sure snare and entangle (and isn't there a third one?) are affected. Go ahead and add themD Boots R Us 16:34, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

Yes there is a 3rd one: bind. However, it doesn't damage, it doesn't even hitsplat a zero, it just hold the opponent for 5 seconds. De jour 16:41, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

You put in the article they aren't affected, are you sure? Did you try them?

No I'm not sure and no I didn't try them, but 99% sure... thats like 1% uncertainty right De jour 17:31, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

I said I was 99% sure they were affected, not not affected. Think about it, they do damage, and that damage has the normals range of 1-max (30/50) so, so that max should be able to be boosted. The only reason I exclude vengeance and the spells that hit the same amount every time is that vengeance is calculated based on what the person was hit, so it's not a range, and the other hits (strikes on salarin) don't have a range either. I think any spell that hits within a range can be boosted. D Boots R Us 17:35, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

OK I just tested them over 100 times using void knight mace, arcane blast necklace, wmb, equipment with +85 magic attack bonus and mystic might prayer with a lvl 83 magic account, but never hit above the standard max hits of 20 and 50. This is pretty good evidence. If anyone does ever manage to boost their max hit please post here. De jour 15:44, May 28, 2010 (UTC)

Ice strykewyrms and Salarin the Twisted
Ice strykewyrms are a slayer monster that are vulnerable to fire spells while wearing a fire cape, possibly up to a massive max hit of 1090.

On Salarin the twisted:

Wind Strike always hits 90 Water Strike always hits 100 Earth Strike always hits 110 Fire Strike always hits 120

however the hits are not affected Magic Damage:+x% stat of staves magic potions and the Arcane stream necklace may or may not work, either way wind strike's max hit is affected. De jour 16:40, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

Void Set
Quote: 'Also a full set of void knight armor will raise your max hit by 10%'


 * Response look at http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/Void_Knight_equipment it states 'Magic- Despite being ridiculed for its lack of a damage bonus, the void magic set is the only magic armour to feature a good ranged defence, and at high/maximum magic levels can potentially reach similar accuracy to Ahrim's armour. The downside to this is a mage must be high level in their magic, and need to reach a high magic bonus to make up for the accuracy lost from the robe slots.'


 * only accuracy is boosted, not max hit, so I'm removing this from the page.

Order of spells
How should they go? I put in ancients as a group after normals as a group, although that was because normals were already there and I was adding onto it. Should it be by level? By basic max? By boosted max? Or is in groups good with everyone? I like it divided by spellbooks and types of spells because it looks neater than it would if they were mixed by, say, level. Where should I put in snare/entangle?

If similar spells are grouped together, then they can share a row in the two left hand collumns, and its a bit neater.

If you give every column the same number of rows, the table could be made sortable.

I want the table to be sortable, how do I do this? D Boots R Us 20:00, May 10, 2010 (UTC)

Burst and Barrage spells
Should it say next to the boosted max hit what the combined max hit would be if it were able to max on 9 targets with one hit? Like I explained at the top of the Max Hits section, this would be impossible, but it is the max. What's the consensus?

I don't think you can add the 9 hits up and call that 1 hit. Personally I feel max hit and max total damage are different things.--De jour 17:21, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

K then I won't D Boots R Us 17:26, May 5, 2010 (UTC)