User talk:Hallowland

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Insulting other users in discussions
Hi. Your comments near the bottom of here are unacceptable. Regardless of your disagreement with him, continued passive-aggressive questioning of his mental faculties is not a hallmark of intelligent debate, and is in fact a violation of the user treatment policy. I've noticed that you do this quite commonly, so hopefully you can identify and correct the issue that is causing you to insult others as such. Thanks, 02:10, July 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * Hello, Cook Me Plox. It seems you have precipitated yourself when you have sent me this message. The messages I've sent to Temujin96 aren't even slightly offensive and I would like to see proof of me "questioning his mental faculties". If you believe that people that can't actually send what they desire on messages sometimes is a mental problem, then you are insulting myself, because I do that occasionally and I don't have any mental faculties. I also see you were opportunist when it came to leave me this message, which is very late, irrelevant and lacks proof. You apparently noticed that I had just archived messages and found it was a good time to leave the title "She insults other users" at the first space due to the discussion I had with you about the map showing the religions of Gielinor. That is the impression I have, since you left me that message days after the discussion with Temujin and put a flashy title that offends myself and does not have any factual support. Hurt the images of other users implying they are unoccupied, disruptive people is not something that will solve any problem, Cook Me Plox. Please reflect about that when leaving messages to any person, not only in the Runescape Wiki. 14:55, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * Your comments are clearly meant to put down the person you're arguing with. I've been on the receiving end of them, as have many others. They're always rude but just innocuous enough to toe the line of the rule of law.
 * And apparently my analogy isn't flawed, you just need to read things more carefully
 * Sorry but the impression I'm having is that you are insisting on this topic with no reason and trying to dispute knowledge with the developers of the Elf Camp.
 * Congratulations (if that is an achievement to you)
 * Let me refresh your memory =)
 * being the first player to have an answer from a mod in a forum thread is not something that will ever convince me that you actually listened to/read something (do not mind proving)
 * Now, taken on their own none of these are really a problem. Together, however, and along with your previous comments in a very similar area ("if you know english you'd know that"), they show a pattern of behavior that attempts to discredit your opponent through ad hominem and insulting either their memory, their reading skills, or their English language skills. Furthermore, my message was left exactly 14 hours after your last message on Temujin's talk page, not "days after" as you've said. Your contention that I've purposely left that message on your freshly archived talk page in order to discredit is obviously in bad faith so I'm not going to respond to it besides to say that it's not true. You have a pattern of abrasive, insulting behavior that needs to stop. 15:22, July 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * Cook me Plox, are you aware your point of view? You are putting "Let me refresh your memory =)", " you just need to read things more carefully", "congratulations" and my statement saying that Temujin first answering a mod will never convince me that he actually listened to/read Above The Lore as highly offensive insults...That was something that made me slightly laugh. I also have knowledge that you are an excellent reader but you could stop using expressions in other languages because communication only happens when the person you are talking to understands what you are saying, and using these expressions hurts your point of view in my opinion. And when I say "if you know english you'd know that" I'm just supporting the fact that the person knows about the subject (obviously, since we are both using english). Your accusations have no foundation and lack the definition of insulting. The conversation I had with Temujin96 was perfectly normal and no rules were broken. You are hunting for problems that never existed with unfair accusations and irrelevant facts. If you insist on the topic, I will have to ignore you. 15:50, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * Temujin was insulted to the point that he tried to have your most recent message removed under the "blatant flaming" exception for RS:DDD. I found your conduct in the chat problematic enough to warn you about it on the spot, and others in the chat (which we for some reason trust you to moderate) have raised similar concerns. Perhaps you don't see it this way, but that's because you're in the center of it. I honestly don't know if it's a language disconnect or if you're trying to get in as many subtle digs as possible without actually breaking the policy and officially being insulting. What you are doing is no better, and as a chat moderator your behavior and interactions with other editors should be impeccable. What you do during conversational arguments is far below any standard, and whether you realize it or not, it's degrading to other users. I don't really care if you accept my argument, I just need you to stop acting this way when you get in the middle of fights. Otherwise you will eventually be blocked for it. 16:06, July 14, 2013 (UTC)

Block
Per Forum:Assessing Hallowland's Character, you have been given an indefinite block. You can request the block's removal at a later time on the Yew Grove. 22:07, July 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi, my intention when closing that thread was to let there be a review thread on the block at some point in time. Since you seem to be interested in making constructive threads to the wiki (albeit by breaking the rules by using a sockpuppet) I am willing to start that review thread on your block if you so wish. You will have the chance to tell everyone your side of the story. You can reply here and I'll see it. 16:37, August 3, 2014 (UTC)
 * Hello Liquid, I was gradually revealing my identity with Oliverrx (which is probably how you discovered it was me). It wasn't intended to be a sockpuppet, just a way to reason with people using private messages in the chat, in order to convince them I am not the villain I seem to be. Anyway I believe I'll explain this more properly in the thread. I am interested in a review thread, yes. Please create it when you can, thank you for the message, I never really knew how returning from a ban worked (I never banned someone (I think) and never appealed). Anyway thanks again >_> 17:49, August 4, 2014 (UTC)
 * Forum:Review of Hallowland block has been created. You can write a statement here and I'll copy it over. 18:33, August 4, 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi again, Liquid. Considering this is a special case, I would like to have permission to edit the page (the thread page only) with Oliverrx in order to reason with people more effectively, and comment. 19:26, August 4, 2014 (UTC)
 * Oh, I see Oliverrx is also blocked. Well, could I use this account to participate the thread? I won't be editing any other pages (only my talk page, of course). 19:38, August 4, 2014 (UTC)
 * Given that this kind of thing has happened before, for example Forum:Request to Remove Btz's Ban, I would prefer if you just said anything you had to say here. You can say who you're reply to or where you want the statement to go and I, or someone else, will transfer it over. 20:11, August 4, 2014 (UTC)


 * Okay. Please copy and paste after this line: 21:12, August 4, 2014 (UTC)

--- Hello wikians. First of all, I would like to clarify my intentions in the wiki, and why I created the account "Oliverrx".

My intentions
I intend to return to the wiki solely to reestablish my friendship with wikians and contribute the wiki in many forms (welcoming users, editing, image work..). Basically, do what I used to do shortly after I created Hallow. I have no "evil" plans, and soon I hope I can convince you they were never a thing. I really miss the wiki and I would like to ask you to read this with an open mind and good faith.

Oliverrx
I have created Oliverrx recently in order to reason with some wikians via the private chat in S:C. I have also made a few benefitial edits, but I wasn't trying to build another sockpuppet (even because I was revealing myself to people, the amount of edits is minimal, and I rarely spoke in the chat). I have created the user page without many distorted facts so I could reason with you right now and convince you the account was not made to be a "second Hallow" (I am indeed fascinated by astronomy, I am Zarosian and I am from America (continent)).

Lack of sense when I revealed the "truth"
Now, I would like to ease your concerns with the "possibility" that I can ascend to staffhood and destroy the wiki and rule, etc... Honestly, what I revealed an year ago was really ridiculous. First, when I created Hallowvalle AnselaJonla was an admin. I could not possibly ban her with my chatmoderator status and even if I could, soon another admin would remove the block and banish me instead. If my intentions were to have empty revenge (build an account for over an year for the sake of having Ansela blocked for seconds) I would've banned Ansela when her adminship was removed. Revenge serves no purpose. What I revealed that day were distorted truths, and I will explain what led me to distort them below.

Please, do not vilify me
I would like to ask you to not see things in extremes, wikians. I am human, not a misanthrope Mahjarrat. I'd like to add that I was known for my good character a month before my banishment, and I never broke a policy. It is true I lied about my gender and nationality, but I did that to preserve my relation with you. I feared one day you could find out I was SwaHeart and cut ties with me. If I had no worth, I wouldn't be given the rights of a chat moderator (which I never abused, and no one opposed me on the thread). I expect you to consider my worthiness as easy as you consider my failures.

Why did I reveal distorted truths shortly before my banishment
As nearly everyone knows, the distorted truths I have revealed last year have resulted in my banishment. Shortly before that, I was under much pressure in my Runescape clan (known as "The Scrying Pool"). I had achieved the "organiser" rank in a short time, which made some clanmates rebel and insult me. So, I was very stressed, and busy.

This eventually caused a short inaction of myself in the wiki. Some wikians contacted me in game and asked me the reasons of this. I was frustrated by this, I feared I could lose the chat moderator rights I loved, and then I started editing again, even though I was tired and stressed.

Due to the problems I was having, I started presenting antisocial behaviour, but I was just out of patience. Some admins noticed that, and approached me, questioning my positions (with reason), and saying I could lose my moderator rights if I continued. I tried to distort their words against them, in a desperade attempt to protect myself, but that made things worse. I felt I was on the brink of losing my rights, and possibly being temporarily banned.

Seeing that situation, and under influence of a tv series I was watching at the time called "Revenge", I distorted all the events since the creation of my wiki account to make them seem as shocking as possible, to leave as victor while attempting to make others seem powerless.

Now, I ask you for your good faith. That was a moment of equivocation and stress in my life, magnified by the distortions. I really see myself as a good person, and that was really just a disastrous phase. I believe everyone has their errors, and these can be pathways to a better form. So, I ask you for mercy and patience, and for your support.

If you have any questions, *please*, ask. I'll be very happy to answer all of them. I'm sorry for all this mess.

Liquid, please paste this as an answer to Fergie: Fergie, back when I controlled SwaHeart I was only 13 years old. I was immensely immature, and at the time I used to hang with people from Castle Wars and dicers, and as you may know, these people aren't very educated. I inherited some of their behaviour. But when I joined the wiki, I met one thing that I didn't have before: Rules. The wiki was actually what turned me into a docile person, and the joy of most wikians. As I said, I am extremely powerless now, I pose no threat. If I wanted to cause any harm (which is nearly impossible considering how well the wiki is administrated), I would create another sockpuppet and "rise in power". I revealed my identity with Oliverrx and here I am trying to return with legitimacy. I am happy that you are divided, that means the wiki is close to your heart. I would like you to think it is also close to mine. The gap between Swaheart and Hallowland is large because I learnt a lot in the time, not only from the wiki, but I moved to a new town, and to an extremely good private school at the time too. Also, I had some conflict with AnselaJonla only when I thought she was treating other users without necessary caution, and I knew how lack of information could misguide people (as I was when I was SwaHeart). This is not reason to fend me off, I actually find it a positive thing. Users must reason with others in order to come to more balanced conclusions. Anyway, I see you may be overprotecting the wiki from a harmless person. Please pour some good faith on me, and again consider myself a human being. 22:23, August 4, 2014 (UTC)

Answers to people: (someone please post those on the thread)
Answer to Mol: I understand why you feel that way, Mol. My attitude must have affected you more than others. It's good that you side with your convictions, but sometimes it's good to give a chance to others to prove they may be right. If you read all the texts I posted and still aren't convinced, I hope this will help to remedy your concerns.. First I would like to say I cannot freely gain higher rights. It requires consensus from the entire community, and if they have any doubts that my intentions are good, I simply won't get them, considering people won't support my thread. Second, I want to say I won't go after higher rights, so you can feel relieved. But anyway, I will ask the same thing to yourself...How can I make you believe me? 22:55, August 4, 2014 (UTC)

Answer to Ozank: I am glad you are giving me a chance, but I want to say I'm trying to solely return, not to gain my chatmod rights again. I won't go after them. I intend to return as a simple contributor. 23:00, August 4, 2014 (UTC)

Answer to Oil4:

Oil, I believe you have ignored my request to not see things in extremes. But anyway, I believe it is your right to not trust me, but you have committed several equivocations in this message *and* ad hominem. First, I am male (that is speficied twice in my user page, which means you probably didn't put much effort reading my history before getting to your conclusion, referring to me as female).

Second, I believe we never really spoke to eachother for you to classify me a psychopath (and the traits of a psychopath are: very low capacity of controlling their behaviour, acute disorder of personality and inability to feel remorse or empathy. Not lust of power, "making themselves look good", etc). If I had inability to feel remorse, I wouldn't even be here looking for your forgiveness and using the expressions "I understand what you're feeling". And I believe I am being sucessful in discussing things calmly here, respecting the rules and your opinions. Those are things a psychopath cannot present. And you did hurt me assuming such a thing.

About my "sockpuppet" (Oliverrx), I understand it was not a good idea, but I didn't quite know how the mechanics of appealing worked and I asked for many people to help me, but they also didn't know how and/or were too busy to help (I didn't even know I could edit my talk page while blocked). If you read the sections "Why did I reveal distorted truths shortly before my banishment" and "Lack of sense when I revealed the 'truth'" you would know I didn't spent an year and edited ~3800 times just to banish Ansela for seconds.

About my chatmod rights, I loved them, yes. Of all my activities, moderating the chat was my favourite. A chat moderator doesn't have much "power", it's one of the "lowest" rights one could achieve here. I loved them not because I could kick/ban people with them (as I said I have banned few people, and I always tried reasoning with them before that), but for the task I had of keeping the chat harmonious. If you do not believe, don't worry, I have already said I won't try to acquire them again.

About my ability to edit, you cannot claim I have not made constructive editions here, just look at my history, my projects, the number of users I've welcomed (I changed my welcoming template several times to follow festive events and to not be monotonous), the adition to lore, to images, templates (like "Rulers and monarchs"), the disruptive people I have removed from the chat... Seriously, just hover over my contributions and I believe you will change your mind.

Now, I repeat: you have the right to not believe me, but please let's discuss this properly, without calling eachother psychopaths and useless stacks, everyone has their worth. 17:14, August 5, 2014 (UTC)

Answer to Bluefire2's response to my response to Oil (lol):

I am aware this is a delicate situation and I have prove my worth if I return. But I would like to remind you I'm trying to return correctly, I'm not fooling you with another "sockpuppet", evading a ban. I have learned from my mistakes. 18:42, August 5, 2014 (UTC)

Answer to Flaysian:

First, I'll add some factual corrections: I'm male, I'm not much younger than any of you (I'm 17), I'm Zarosian *in game*, not in real life. It's weird that you assumed I did. Anyway I understand you are confused, because behind a lie you would expect to see the truth, but you saw another lie (when I "revealed" myself, I distorted the truth; and now that I am revealing *the truth* you don't want to believe me). Anyway I'm sorry that I have caused this on you, this confusion. But really (this is not an attempt of making you give a second chance to me) you should give others a second chance, time fixes everything, because through it we learn and form new memories, new perceptions. We shouldn't give up on people. 18:53, August 5, 2014 (UTC)

Maybe it would be easier if you could link to the diff of the comment you're replying to; threads like this tend to become complex and then "Answer to X's response to Y etc." becomes very difficult to work with. 19:31, August 5, 2014 (UTC)


 * I am a little rusty, I don't know how to do that. 21:41, August 5, 2014 (UTC)

Answer to Oil4 and Sly at Oil's "Strong Oppose" section
Oil, I believe you didn't read my response with the necessary caution. *sigh* anyway I believe your eyes are clouded by your hatred of me or by pleasure in engaging in conflict situations (some people do enjoy that, personally that's the main thing that attracts me in a movie).

You have presented the same definition of psychopath as I did. I have put many reasons that make it impossible to classify me into that group. Your reasons are flawed:

Enduring antisocial behaviour: I said one of the reasons of my return to the wiki is reestablishing my friendship with wikians. Is that not sociable? Was I not sociable before my banishment? Are we not socializing right now? I am no recluse, nor an irritated person, my texts are my evidence.

Diminished empathy and remorse: I *am* here due to my remorse. If I had no remorse I would evade my banishment creating another sockpuppet and following the same footsteps as before. Empathy: comprehension, considering yourself on the other person's place. My answers to everyone here were empathetic, if I had their support or not. Please review this.

Narcissism: excessive contemplation of yourself. I don't see that at work here, I am exposing the mistakes I have done, and saying I am sorry for them. I am not exposing qualities and elevating myself. You are creating a fantasy of myself, vilifying... Please reflect on that, the act of seeing the failures of others may be magnified to a point where you become unable to see any qualities at all, regardless of their words and their actions.

As Fergie, Battleben, Cam, Spine and many others know, I have recognised my mistake and apologised countless times (I believe I may even have annoyed them because I did that via the game chat too). There's even a 1-year-old apology at my user page (and many others in this very thread) you may have overlooked.

Do not commit the same mistake as I did, distorting words against a person (mistake which is at display at my talk page, against Cook Me Plox). You cannot convince me that you are being offended by this discussion. I am treating you with respect, and if that's not enough, I say you are a valuable editor of the wiki.

"Psychopath" can be an insult, at least to myself. If my friends start calling me a psychopath, I'll be very offended, in fact. I am not a psychopath and I ask you to not call me that again. I see you are convicted by your views. Very well. I hope I can prove you wrong with time.

Sly, you are correct. What one takes as "insult" may be meaningless to another person. Seeing this, I have asked Oil to not refer to myself like that again, for that is very degrading to me. Everyone is allowed to have their opinions, but they must be cautious when expressing them, because others can be offended. ;) 21:41, August 5, 2014 (UTC)
 * For my sake can you please indent multi-paragraph responses? It's rather annoying to have to add a bunch of colons before every paragraph every time. :L 21:56, August 5, 2014 (UTC)
 * Okay, sorry Liquid. 21:59, August 5, 2014 (UTC)
 * Wait, how do I do that again *-*? 22:01, August 5, 2014 (UTC)

Response to Fergie at her comment
You have a big strength of character which makes it difficult for me to convince you. Due to this, I'd like you to give me the benefit of the doubt, to prove you with actions that I have changed and I am being as honest as I can. However Fergie, I feel like the resentment you grew is too strong. I feel like even if I become a great wikian you'll be far from me. Don't take this as an insult, please. I always liked you a lot. This is a request. I'd like you to ease your remorse if I get to make benevolent aditions to the wiki again - and don't worry, I won't be going after any rights. Please open space for me to show you I have learned. People *can* change for good.