User talk:Robert Horning/Adam Smith Clan

Clan Discussions
Feel free to engage in discussions about this clan, its policies, practices, and concepts on this talk page.

This "user" account has been established to provide a neutral location that isn't really tied to any specific user, but at the same time to acknowledge that this is a user-driven effort and doesn't really fit in the main article namespace of the RS Wiki. If clan pages are permitted in the future and organized in some other manner, this page certainly can be moved to fit with however those clan pages are organized. --Robert Horning 11:57, October 22, 2009 (UTC)
 * I understand your intentions, but, umm... Are you really allowed to create another account for a clan here? -- 14:28, October 23, 2009 (UTC)
 * RS:IAR -- I don't need to say more unless you really want to make an issue of it. The account is created.  --Robert Horning 15:40, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

Marketplace Reform
At the moment there is a rather anemic feature on this wiki called Runescape:Market. While it is better than nothing, I think we can spiff this up and turn it into something much more usable.... or perhaps we could make an alternate feature.

A primary philosophy I would like to make is to work with the wiki and not against it. Trades and even market places don't have to be exclusive just for clan members, and opening up opportunities for those not directly active with our clan can certainly be a part of our greater clan mission.

Anyway, on the original thread where I started the thought of this clan, I suggested some alternative ideas where I'd like to take this clan. That is certainly a roadmap, but for now we need to get this marketplace up and going in a fashion that makes it usable.... to kick it up to the next level and make it a place players would be interested in using. I'm open to good suggestions on how that can be accomplished. --Robert Horning 12:12, October 22, 2009 (UTC)

So, Robert, what are your plans? Please notify me on my talk page or in-game regarding the clan's activities.

I'm currently thinking about the RS:MARKET, and I was wondering, are we going to accept junk trades? I know quite a few people who believe that it's wrong to trade junk instead of currency, but junk items are currency, in a way. 08:47, October 23, 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't see how we can avoid having "junk" trades. What is going to need to happen, however, is that we need to establish a "street price" for stuff, including junk.  The street price is going to be different from the GE price.  I argued when the street price was removed from item boxes that the street prices should have at least been preserved on individual items.  Street prices are back... for good or ill.


 * Verifiability is an issue here on street prices, but at the very least we can use the clan to help establish these "street prices" by what members of the clan are willing to buy and sell stuff for that is being blocked by price caps. If Jagex isn't going to release these price caps, we're going to have to find ways to work around them and offer stuff to members of our clan (and others wanting to trade with our clan).


 * I understand that some people think that trading with junk is wrong. The problem isn't that having the junk is wrong, but that the price caps ought to be removed by Jagex and to let us trade items on the in-game markets (particularly the Grand Exchange) at prices we can set.  But if Jagex doesn't want to do that, we need to find a way to work around the issues.  The junk and anti-junk market is precisely what is needed to get around these price caps.


 * There is some genuinely "worthless" junk as well, but even most junk items have value. I would like to get the yew longbow market flowing again, to use an example, that players who love to power-level these can have fun and obtain those in fairly large quantities.  Folks complain about the price caps... I'm trying to make a difference and get stuff happening.  That is in fact going to be one of the first early parts of this clan and what I hope to accomplish.  Buying and selling of junk and anti-junk is one of the key areas that I want to start with.


 * If you want to find out what "anti-junk" is, see my article on the RSWP about this topic. --Robert Horning 13:28, October 23, 2009 (UTC)


 * I read your article, and it was very interesting and informative. I'm working on the market right now, and any ideas would be welcome. Current page is at User:Rwojy/MarketPlace. 19:17, October 23, 2009 (UTC)

Resurrecting the in-game market places
For those that are long-time players, they may remember the world 1 and world 2 market places. I want to bring that back after a fashion. There are places like the RSOF markets that are still active, and some of the fansite groups also have marketplaces that vary with different degrees of effectiveness.

One of the problems with out-game (as opposed to in-game) merchanting is that it is somewhat difficult to actually get the transaction to take place. So I'm trying to come up with a solution on how to solve that problem... but taking baby steps along the path and hoping that we can become a very highly organized clan.

The decision for what world's we are going to be operating on is pretty much a decided issue... as we are going to be associating with the "official" worlds of the RS Wiki: World 28 (member) and World 29 (F2P). I'm not setting this as a hard rule, but we need to have a place to start and these are pretty tame worlds to work in and already have many folks from the RS Wiki already there. We might as well add our support to those efforts.

I am looking for a good place to build a marketplace, however. This is a place we can come together and meet at to actually perform trades and exchanges... and to conduct clan business in-game. I would like to put the following criteria into the decision, and get some more feedback about what else we should consider:


 * A common city for both F2P and members. In other words, this should be in an area available to both members and free players (even if member markets are on the member world).  If this "experiment" grows, we can move to a member-only area for the member market, but let's keep this simple for now.
 * Easy to travel to the market area. This should have a common teleport option available for most players to easily travel to the market area quickly, and be able to travel back to wherever they were before they engaged in the transaction.
 * Close proximity to a bank. "Close" is relative and we can consider something a fairly more distant location over something exactly next to a bank, but it shouldn't be too far.
 * Avoids messing with normal player "training" activities. This could be argued as well, and isn't a strict requirement, but we don't want to annoy too many players if this gets going.
 * Near/on significant travel paths for players. We do want curiosity to prick the attention of some players to find out what exactly we are up to.
 * Growth potential. If this works out, we need to have a way to grow and allow "specialists" to flourish in this sort of marketplace.

The purpose of doing this is to make a convenient place for both buyer and seller to come together and get the trades to happen. If you post something on RuneScape:Market, we need to have a place where those trades can happen. I'd also like to try and attract players to our marketplace and have them be willing to trade with our clan members.... showing that we don't have to put up with Jagex's price controls.

This can work, but it will take a whole bunch of effort. --Robert Horning 00:25, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

Some ideas for areas that I've thought of include (please feel free to edit/modify/add to this list):


 * Near the Grand Exchange: (just to the east or west of the main GE clerks)
 * Pros:
 * Close to bank, and you have immediate access to all GE functions to assist with trades
 * Transport options are nearly ideal for both F2P and members (especially members!)
 * Well established as a trade center, where folks interested in trades are already present
 * Cons:
 * Perhaps too good of a location. Scammers, spamers, and trolls can also disrupt us, particular before we get well organized.
 * No nearby place for a "private" conversation... to get away from the rapid scrolling through of comments by other players.
 * Growth potential is a bit more limited.


 * Falador Castle (the great white castle in the middle of the city)
 * Pros:
 * Has two nearby banks to support trading activity
 * Near tradition "home" of the original World 2 market (giving a sense of history for the old time players)
 * Steady traffic of players in both F2P and member worlds
 * Transport options are still fairly good (Lumby ring, Faldor teleport, and dwarven mine carts)
 * Plenty of places for specialists to set up locations and expand
 * Cons:
 * Some quest activity takes place in/near this castle, including some training options (killing white knights and other similar activities)


 * Al-Kharid
 * Pros:
 * Room to grow. The desert is mostly unused space, and most building in Al-Kharid usually don't have a significant function
 * Out of the box thinking.... by having the market here, folks will know this is a new idea and not a re-hash of earlier concepts
 * Transport options still surprisingly good. Lumbridge teleport (for F2P), Gnome gliders, and direct teleport to Al-Kharid (Glory Amulet)
 * Bank in general area and offers full banking services
 * Home of many skillers... particularly F2P skillers
 * Cons:
 * It might just be too "out of the box" thinking and not something ordinary players are looking for


 * Lumbridge Castle (behind... away from the respawn area)
 * Pros:
 * Center of all new player activity.... easy to travel here for most players
 * Banks are within some fairly close distance
 * Cons:
 * Almost always crowded on F2P, and can attract trolls/scammers we may not want
 * Room to expand is somewhat limited.

Discussion
Discuss what locations you think might make a good place to establish a trading center for the clan:

How about the trading place before the GE: Varrock's west bank. The biggest advantage is its a place that many people go on the way to the GE. I don't think the trading place should be to close to the GE, for the cons noted above. But at the same time, we don't want people to be forced to choose between our location and the GE, as most times the convenience of the GE will win out. 07:01, October 24, 2009 (UTC)


 * It is funny you should mention this. The original F2P world 1 market place (pre-GE) took place around and even inside of the west bank of Varrock.  Many of the "specialists" and large scale interactions between members and free users often took place either in the basement or upstairs at the bank, and often spilled over into most of the surrounding areas.  This certainly is a defensible location for such a trading area.


 * I really am not tied to any place specific, other than it shouldn't be at the Wilderness Volcano or in the Asgarnian Ice Caves (although some high level players might get a chuckle over these suggestions). I would like to see some more feedback, however.--Robert Horning 15:54, October 24, 2009 (UTC)