Talk:Draconic visage

Hey big thanks to the person who un redlinked and linked up the dragons and oziach its something i find myself unable to do (lazyness).Dark0805 23:13, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Luck or Planned
Now if you think about it, computers don't have the ability to randomize drops since it runs on numbers and can't have a coin flipping type of progam. Giving a percent chance is like giving it a guess... it's not going to be the same for everyone. The game most likely gave a starting equation, and the x's and y's are just based on other drops by unknown monsters. So think of it like this: In the last hour, a waterfeind dropped 2,234 charms in that world. Then a hellhound dropped 17 clue scrolls in that hour. And in that hour 3,456 iron dragons were killed. Then they would add the first two together, and subtract it from the amount of iron dragons killed. After that, they would use that number to give that numbered iron dragon killed to drop a visage. Confusing, I know. And this isn't the real equation. All I'm really saying is that it is impossible for it to be a random drop. Though it seems to me, that the first drop seems to be the "luckiest". So, I suggest that if your first KBD drop isn't a visage, try the black drags, then irons, steels and finally miths. If your first drops on every type of dragon fails, I suggest hunting iron dragons for a Draconic Visage.
 * First of all, this would be way too complicated to program in. You would have to have a big circle linking all of the drops of every single creature and you could plan exactly what would drop for every creature for each kill. Rather, random number generators do exist and are most likely used. True, they are not completly random, but they are random enough that you would have had to kill black dragons since the day of their release to notice ANY sort of pattern. Even then, the odds of there being a pattern would be low. Think about it this way, Java can take care of numbers up to about 2 billion. This means that a random number generator can produce 2 billion different values, meaning that you would have to kill more than two billion dragons if all the drops were lined up. (such as: 3 green charms, javelins, and then visage, and nothing could change that). When you then factor in that the drops could also be lined up according to seconds and not kills (A pointer points at one drop at 1.00 seconds, and a different drop if you kill it at 1.01 seconds), it grows still more random. It would be still more random if the time simply changed the drops according to kills. So time equal to 1.00 would give drop list of green charms, javelins..., but a time 1.01 would give a drop list of javelins, visage... So, yes, the drops are not random, and you could figure out exactly what you would get if you found Jagex's formulas, however, they are random enough that you cannot assign a formula to them. Mjc3 00:50, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

This is very very inaccurate. I program Java and a random number generator is built in and easy to use. It simply works like this: Pick random number between 1 and 100 Case 1: coins (then another random number generator to pick the amount) Case 2: rune kiteshield

Now of course there will be more cases labeled as coins than rune kiteshields.

This is one of many forms of generating a random number. Looking from a programmers perspective, it would be much, much harder to program drops based on other events within the game.

I program a bit, and maybe the game just picks a random integer between one and 5000 every single time you kill a dragon, and if the number is 1, you get a visage... I would like to remind everyone of the Chaos Theory which is in fact where seemingly unrelated events are eventually related by other seemingly unrelated events until it forms a chaotic web of related yet unrelated events. So a drop is in fact not random at all because the idea of randomness is simply that an idea- Otot22
 * And the Chaos Theory is just that, a theory. The truth is, we have no way to prove either way. But seeing as how all other drops are random, there is no reason to think this one is not. 19:26, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Drop Rates
this is stuipd guys there is a REAL drop rate it is planned by a program even a retard could make i kno how games work this 1 uses a speical drop rate but that dosent mean u will get it in 100 kills if it says 1/100 it will mean u will likley have to kill 100 but other than that there is a real drop rate ive killed probly 20 steel and 40 iron so far ive gotten d skirt and lookin forward to visage

I kill around 20 King black dragons a day and have so for the last month or so...i have yet to see a visage

Who calculated the drop rates? Where's your source? I'd like to know if 1 in 32 for the KBD is accurate, my friend and I have killed 23 tonight and one hasn't dropped yet. Chissey 06:39, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

I calculated my drop rates from 24 independent drop logs on the official RuneScape forums and fansite forums (Each log contains at least 2000 kills, and the deviation from my final answer is within a reasonable margin). The total number of King Black Dragons killed included in these logs is 927, number of Draconic visage drops is 28. Since we are talking about Java, I automatically rounded the final answer to one out of a power of two. Doomedrusher|Talk| |Contributions| 14:39, 15 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Ah yes, I think I saw that thread. Must've seen it in it's earliest stages, though. Well, I think I'll add my rates to the list after I get a few. Thanks a ton, man, 1 in 32 is awesome. Chissey 15:46, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

1/32 I not even close! I have soloed hundreds, and all the drop rates logs estimates it to be in the hundred, I have gotten only 1 from KBD and that was after more than 200 kills with my team, I split about 4mil of the drop,

I myself believe the drop rate is a 1/135 chance, but you will not surely get it in that many.

I can solo about 3 or 4 kbds per a single trip, if a visage drops that often I would get it in 10 trips, there would be no way the visages would be 25mil if I can get in about 3 hours.

He is absolutly right. the drop rate of draconic visage at King black dragon is not 1/32 it is believed that it's 1/110 or so. like he said would the visage be 25mil and u can get 1 every 3hours?Johnjack922 09:17, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

It would be impossible to have the exact drop rate unless you consult the game code. I suggest we remove any talk on drop rates in the article. Killioman 19:47, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

I think i killed about 500 drags in zanaris before i got my 1st visage (which i lost thank you power cut >=/ ) i then killed another 1000 Black dragons before i got my 2nd one, will i have to kill 2000 before my 3rd :O, ive already killed another 200 or so and no drop, plus all the times ive killed iron and steels (i normally kill 20 a week) and have done for weeks and no drops off them either =[--Eminemster2k 18:15, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm thinking that possibly, this 'wheel' could differ for every player. Example, maybe every 100th or 1000th player could have better rate for a rare drop. Like, say i was the 100 or 1000th player to create an account, and my rare drop percentage would be say, 15% instead of 5%. Or perhaps, there is a 'wheel' that is spun to determine the fate or your permanent 'wheel'?

I will agree that certain accounts have different luck rates. My account used to have no luck, but lately idk what happened. I decided that everyone needs ancients so I did Dt, the chest you have to open with lockpicks, i did on first try.

Months later I decided to try my luck again, and decided to read up about what Barrows was and what the rewards are and how you do it. I was a complete Barrows noob, never been. Then on my first try, first run ever, I get Dharoks helm. Insane luck.

On my first run to the Taverly chest, I got the rune Bars. My point is my Account has luck, and it would't suprise me if some accounts were actully luckier than others. Italian song 22:09, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

(Read the first paragraph under the iron dragons section for more info on the 'wheel')

Well i think i have a "lucky account" so far everything i've been lucky in, on my main i used to have no luck at all! I do barrows on my new account now and i usually get like 10 items a day...I went iron dragons first time and got 2 dragon drops i have also gotten 2 visage drops in 1.3k black dragons Thats luck! My friend has killed over 3k dragons and no visage so i believe there are "lucky accounts" or just plain coincidence.

I've killed like. 160 steel dragons so far. around 20 iron. (i like steel better :) over three days, and in those kills i've gained one set of dragon platelegs and one dragon plateskirt.. So far, visage is totally avoiding me. one day i'll get it. Drop rate of 1/2 would be nice. haha

Interesting, I managed to get a Draconic visage in one trip to the Taverly dungeon, and it was only my 4th trip there. Lucky me... Nat12345919 05:28, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

0 for 2000 at black dragons. It is obviously based on luck. there is no predictable way to say how many you have to kill to get one. It could be 1 or 100000...RobyImmortal 24:52, 12 March 2009

Well I myself have killed 2203 black dragons, (I've kept track by subtracting the ranging xp I have now, from when I started, then divide that number by the amount of xp each dragon gives (840ish), since I've only been ranging these guys) and I have gotten ZERO visage. I see it as pure luck even though I know that the computer can't be random. My friend got one at 726 (he just counted hides and showed them to me), and I'm sure we've all seen the video about the guy getting one at 126 hides, but the way I look at it is this: I always think to myself that I should never quit until I get one because the very next drop could be a visage. You people who have already gotten one, or even more, have gotten two... should not complain about getting the next one. - James13_13

Drop rates are not always correct, but draconic visage seems to be a very rare drop compared to the rates. I killed around 375 kbd's before i got the visage drop. I used about 3M in food and other supplies, and got 15M, that was cheap, but I'm still happy :).

Serious doubts about KBD drop rate
I've already changed the article to reflect the uncertainty, but there's absolutely no way we haven't gotten the drop in 132 kills if the drop rate is 1/32. It's like, a 1.5% chance. My two friends I kill the KBD with are 100% reliable, so it's not a question of their honesty, it's a question of the honesty of the people in the thread who gave their drop figures. As it is, at a 1/128 chance, there's only a ~35% chance that we haven't gotten one yet...So, there's that. Chissey 06:28, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

wait worse for visage 0.0

so far 0:3256 82-92 range

Im 92ranged and i killed now 420 kbd's 0 vissage drops probly unlucky but i know more ppl who had that but 1/32 is not true otherwise evry 1 can make 20m in 2hours that would say i make 60M a day lol. my rs name is :And1db add me if u want;)

Every person has a different drop rate, so you cant go by how fast one person does it to yours. Some people can do it on there first try and others takes forever. so just simply keep trying and you'll eventually get your visage.

My personal opinion is, droprates are VERY bad measurements unless you count from one of that drop to the next time it's dropped, many times. So it's very difficult to do with rares like visage. Think about it this way, all these logs usually have the people who made them killing the monster many times beforehand, so their logs are never really *that* accurate. Basically, a person that gets visage on their 32nd Kbd kill on a log after not logging 300 beforehand would make the droprate seem low. Personally, i've killed around 400 to 500 since I started slaying, quite a few before that. So really, 1 out of 32 is a TERRIBLE estimate, i've never met someone who got a visage that fast off KBD ingame either.Lord Sean 8 20:30, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Man I killed 126 kbd's with my clan yesterday in a row. it took four trips and we never got a single vis drop. i think the drop rates of different monsters vary for different people. I might get d chains from kq alot, but my friend may be better at gettin gs shards from bandos. Just my best guess

Tip.it KBD Event today. Dispatched over 550 KBDs without a visage.

slayer?
some people on runescape forums claim that they got visage during slayer, maybe slayer ups the chances?

No, slayer does not give any more chances to a drop of a visage, Jagex has even said that themselves.

People who claim it does up your chances it is not true, I myself have gotten many slayer assignments, I have killed about 500 steels when I was assigned and around 5k without an assignment.

I have gotten 2 visage drops, none on a slayer assignment.

Think of it this way, imagine a huge wheel of fortune, then imagine it numbered 1-2500, and if you land on 999 you get a visage.

Now this does not mean that one in 2500 kills you will get a visage, it means that every kill you have a 1/2500 chance of getting it, you can kill millions of them and you will not be sure you will get one.

If you really want to get a visage, I suggest camping, you must range or mage to camp, just stay there for a few days all you do is just kill and kill, eventually you must get one.

this is fairly logical talking i support it 100% Johnjack922 09:19, 12 June 2008 (UTC

Ooo i got another visage 2 days ago :D

49 iron drags for slayer task, killed 49 no visage, then i thought, what the hell, lets make it 50, killed 50th 1 and got d legs and visage :D 11:06, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

ok so ive killed maybe 1.2k iron drags and have gotten only rune limbs rba's and 1 d skirt which was my first kill first time here. all i want is a visage drop and my friend got one and i d didnt whn we killed the same so wtf is this

im lvl 46 and got a visage drop from a black after 34th kill so its possible

I killed hundreds, maybe over 1k, of KBD on my range tank account and never got a visage. I then went on my main account and got 2 in 2 KBD trips. If this tells us anything, it tells us that its completely down to luck. that is not ture. i've been killing em for about 2hrs and i havent got any visage

Iron dragon drop rates.
It's really simple if you think of it this way, when you kill ANY kind of monster, a spinner spins. say, 95% of the spinner is normal items, and the other 5% are rare items. If the spinner lands on the 5%, another spinner spins, seeing what item you get (the visage part being very small...) if you think about it that way, it's really obvious that drop rates are a total myth and you can get a visage on first kill...or go billions of dragons without one.

As of today I have killed around 1200 iron dragons with no luck of a visage. it might just be my bad luck or the drop rate is really really low. At around kill 860 i got legs, and 930 i got a skirt. Justakid 06:32, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I got a d plate legs on my first kill at steel dragons and visage on my 32nd drop, it really is a coincidence, or even luck..

Following on from the above comment, I have been hunting for about 30 hours. No visage, but I have had 4 sets of d legs. [Fantasy]

I killed a bronze dragon noooo clue what i was thinking but i almost died becuase i wasn't wearing a anti-d shield, i poisoned it and had to run behind a wall and wait for it to die, i got d legs, first kill so honestly its pure luck, i'm currentally at about 130 black dragon kills and no visage, no clue, nothing good,...

-I say it should be investigated...ive seen a few logs of people killing 2k+ black dragons and not getting one, but then someone gets a slayer task of 15 and gets one. its most likely coincedence and luck but I seriously think slayer does increase drop rate of certain valuable items.

(Jagex has even said slayer does not up your chances, why would it? Why would training woodcutting speed up your cutting if you were just cutting for money? Why would mining for exp not money up your chances of a gem? It wont.)

I would disagree with the idea that people are misrepresenting their drop rates for visages. It would seem to me that persons who got an early drop would be more motivated to post about their great luck. Meanwhile those with high drop rates would decline to post, as they might consider it to be 'nothing to talk about'. Teknikl 20:05, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Well anyone might post, but I think of it like this, some people play the lottery and never win a thing, while some might play it for the first time and win the whole thing, it just all comes down to being random, lucky, and motivated to spend time and wait patiently for it. i killed 45 iron dragons the other day got the visage in only 45 kills

if you all want serious honest to god truth about my luck at this visage... ive killed exactly 8923 black dragon over 2k iron/steel 300+ kbd 200+ mithril dragons and 200 or so wyverns and havent once gotten a visage drop. best drop ive gotten is 9 d legs and 4 skirts gone from 70 to 97 range hunting for that visage still no drop

Technically, it is impossible to calculate a true "drop rate" of anything. That would mean that you could go out and kill iron dragons, and get a visage every...say 100 kills. Every 100th kill would yeild a visage no matter what. But this is far from the case, I know a few people who have gotten a visage their 1st trip, and others(including me)who have killed many thousands, and have yet to get a visage, or even see anyone near us get one. Unfortunately, no matter how many numbers you crunch, it all boils down to the fact there is no drop rate.

Hey buddy i was just wonderin how do u expect us to "camp" for days when most people that try for visage drops don't already have 999mill to spend on enough bolts to last that long? seriously i can stay about 3 hours before i have to go back to the GE and cash in my stuff to buy more bolts. idk about you but i'd rather have a profitable way of taking this 1/2500 chance... I agree, I've had many slayer tasks for Iron Dragons, not one Visage, not even dragon legs. I guess I'm unlucky. I even talked to Ozwich or whatever his name is before I went, nothing! I HAVE KILLED OVER 1K OF EM AND NOTING THI

On my second kill on irons i got a Dragon plateskirt, then after i had left my friend got dragon platelegs on his 12th steel kill —67.220.4.110 (talk • contribs) forgot to sign this comment.

Oziach
Where is it proven that one needs to talk to Oziach to get a visage as a drop? Planeshifted 15:39, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

You do not need to talk to oziach, as i recieved a visage from regular black dragons whilst not having talked to him since dragon slayer quest (i'm now level 103, quite a while since that quest) it's a common misconception, and doesn't belong on the page


 * I'm editing the information out if nobody else dissents. Planeshifted 04:02, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

My friend and I went for a look at KBD and he got draconic vissage 1st drop waring ring of wealth so its based on luck

Blackdaddy5 09:20, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

i know that oziach isnt needed to get a visage because i killed 32 dragons with my pure so i never even did dragon slayer, and i got a visage. Also to be known a long password recovery q's and a bank pin increased my chances of getting drops, last week i killed prolly 600 tzhaar and got nothing, so i made recovery q's got a bank pin and today i kill 200 and got 4 capes 1 longsword and 1 sword and 25 rings (Really good run, Mabye not) ed12309

By 0verlord1841: Ed, there is no proof that long pass,recovs and a bank pin give better drops. Its like at barrows, where you get a dry streak of no items then you get like 2-3 in a row.

my sister got visage on killing from 61range to 87range on irons and steels... mainly steels ... i personaly havnt killed that much ... and never had dragon leg drop ... i hope that you are as lucky as me ... have fun dont try to hard

Dragon drops
I found it easy to get a Dv From an iron dragon, tell me what dragon you killed to get one and how many times did you have to kill it. Iron Dragon/7 kills Yefpatterson 04:57, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, I've been killing Iron and Steel dragons for freaking long. My last trips included more then 100 dragon kills, the best thing I got was dragon legs about 4 months ago. What am I doing wrong? And what about 'I found it easy to kill'? You know.. isn't it just about luck? Everscream 13:59, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
 * It's random. 12:46, 27 October 2008 (UTC)


 * The visage is very rare. I have killed over 5000 iron/steel dragons (over 50 slayer tasks) and I have got several dragon helms, legs and skirts, but not one visage. You have to be very lucky to get one. 13:13, 27 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I have killed over 3,919 black dragons as of 2/11/09, and have received about 22m from them, from Dragon shield left half, d meds, etc., but i have yet to receive a visage. If i am not mistaken from what i have heard black dragons do drop visages.  My point is that a visage is up to your luck, and just your luck, right place, right time!!!

Store Price
I highly doubt any store trader would pay 25,000,000 for this, In actual fact, I'm pretty certain it's far less than that, can anybody confirm? - and if 25m is being paid, that's more than they're selling for, in the grand exchange!
 * It's not what they buy for, it's what they sell for. That is always more than the GE price. Drag  nmn   talk cont  18:08, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Is that for everything? Empty vials are 3 gp, but sell for 72 in grand exchange.

I am not sure if this is how you do this but I just recently got one and it sells for 300,000 coins at the store.

Well ive been killing iron dragons and black dragons and KBD ALot probaly over 4000kills total and none

i think that the lower your lvl the higher the chance of drop, i was a lvl 78 when i ranged my eleventh black dragon, now i'm 112 and i've killed over 2000. No luck.
 * It's random, completely random. There is no luck or modifiers when it comes to choosing a random line of code. However unlikely, because it's completely random, somebody could get a drop twice in a row. 19:36, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Ok >.< Sorry for writing over your page but no one will look at this anyways soo i know how the drop rate goes... the more wealthier you are the better items you get.. For Example: imagine you killing a black drag with black d hide on while ranging. then some dude comes up and kills one with full bando's on The chances of you getting a better drop will sky rocket. so you get better items you get better drops

The rise in drop potential based on the items you're wearing only occurs in PVP Worlds while fighting other players. Drop potential has no effect while fighting monsters. Refer to the first paragraph of the Iron Dragon Drop Rates section of this page. That is the truth, from Jagex's own mouth... (Sir Turlook)

luck is it.
One day, i got steel dragons for a slayer task, my first steel dragon someone attacked it with magic before i could, so i killed an iron while i waited for the steel to respawn. MY FIRST IRON KILL WAS A VISAGE! People kill many of these and never see a visage, i have talked to oziach, but the chance of getting one on my very first kill is extreme luck. I would say its either random, or im just very lucky, or a combonation of the two.

Black dragon drop log
I decided to make a drop log killing 1k black dragon. I am around 1/4 there. User:Powers38/Drop log/Black dragon. 12:46, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

The truth about ring of wealth
Does ring of wealth help? --Gragon 126 20:55, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

"The Draconic visage is a "bonus" drop. This means that it is included in a dragon's main drop, and it is never the main drop itself. As such, it is believed that the visage is not affected by the Ring of wealth."

Quoted from the article Axearmour1 22:35, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

actually ring of wealth does help to get a visage. i wear one all the time. it does help

smithing xp
I noticed the page lacks amount of experience given to Smithing when one attaches a visage to an antifire shield. Could someone find that out and add that info to the page? It seems relevant. :P --nekobawt 19:04, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Done! 19:15, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Its 2k xp.

Okay so I've killed 2632 Iron dragons and a few steels.(Calc'd from the prayer EXP from the bones.) And I've got no drops worth over 100K. While my friend got a Vissage on second drop ever off an iron dragon. So I guess the first kills are the luckiest like the guy said.