User talk:Wejer

Feel free to leave a message. Wejer   15:46, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

'''I am going away on vacation the 29th of december, will be back 12th of January. Happy new year to you all!''' Wejer    12:33, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Hello everyone, and thank you for taking such an interest in philosophy and modern political issues.

I have decided to remake my page so that it becomes more useful and easier to read. Suggestions would be wonderful.

Main points of interest:


 * Adding links to wikipedia regarding important issues (so that you can read a bit before making up your mind)
 * Dividing My opinions into smaller sections. What I have come up with are 'Personal principles', 'Economics', 'Very Important People', 'Social stances' and 'General observations'.

Any constructive feedback is welcome. Oh, and if you want me to take a stance on anything, don't hesistate to leave a message. Wejer   21:05, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Welcome!
Hi Wejer, please remember to follow these steps when updating an item's price in the Grand Exchange Market Watch.

To UPDATE the market price of this item in the Grand Exchange Market Watch:


 * 1) Move the value from Price to Last.
 * 2) Move the value in Date to LastDate.
 * 3) Add the current market price to Price (Without commas; i.e. 42000, not 42,000).
 * 4) Add 5 tildes  to Date to add the current time/date.
 * 5) Click Save page.

If you have any more questions, please leave a note on my talk page. Thanks! =) 15:37, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Re:Vandalism found
Hi there. Well what that vandal did (I've reverted their edits and reported them to the Counter Vandalism Unit) was go to the Exchange:Ruined_dragon_armour_lump article and edited the price so it would say "free if you like men". The way to revert this is to go to that article and click "undo" (or, if you have rollback rights you simply click "rollback") and then you undo their changes. This would not have worked as well in this case, however, because the IP had edited twice, which means rollback rights would have helped greatly in this situation. However, if you go to the revision before the vandalism started and select all of the text and right click "copy" then delete all of the text on the current revision and select "paste", you can then remove the vandalism. Thanks for notifying us of the vandalism in progress, however next time, please try to use the actual form, not the talk page. Kudos 2 U Talk! Edit count! Contribs! 19:48, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Re:Proposal
You most certainly may label me as a fellow Libertarian, you may also be interested in seeing if Rendova is interested, he's a Paulite himself.-- 15:46, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
 * "foreign aid is counter-productive, because the money will most likely down the dictator's pockets; also, building schools and hospitals is equally wrong, because it just frees up money for the dictator to spend on secret police and armed forces." - I have to sortof disagree with this. I like the idea of volunteer and charity hospitals, perhaps merely checked up on, but not policed, maintained, or otherwise controlled, by their own government (the contributors, that is). I say this because if the need for hospitals is so great, the dictator would likely already be putting minimal or no money into it to begin with. Of course this would have to be looked at differently, since in all probability each situation would be different and thus would need to be looked at and treated differently.

Also you didn't mention anything on abortion or gay rights :d. I'd be interested in your thoughts on those. ahh and the political compass puts me at (1,-2) on the scale. I guess I do have a few commie views :p 05:12, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

-You, a commie? You haven't been to my country I presume (Sweden), cause here the communists have their own legitimate party, and are present in our parliament. You would have a very big hassle fitting in with your own, moderate views.

About foreign aid: yes, it is true dictators don't spend much money on public services, regardless if they are right or left-winged. However, they always spend a certain, small amount to keep the population content. Cuba is quite a good example of this; the people go to school a couple of years, so that they can learn to read. But what is there to read? Because there is no free (private) media, the only thing they have acces to is their propaganda newspaper! Will they get an accurate view on the world that way? I have to disagree.

Although it is true that all countries are not so miserable as communist cuba is at the moment, we should always excercise caution when giving foreign aid. It is primarily a country's own responsability, not ours. What we shall provide for them is REAL free trade and COMPLETLY free immigration, which will have a lot more impact on other countries standrard of living than any amount of charity money would do.

Of course, you can't prevent charity anyway, because people do whatever they like with their money. Still, charity money is better than welfare taxation, because the first one is voluntary while the second is not (you may be put into prison for not paying your taxes).

I cannot stop people from giving money though, I can only warn them to be cautious. Wejer   08:47, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Oh yes I forgot, I will put my views on gay rights, abortion and similar issues. Keep the suggestions coming! <font color="White">Wejer   08:49, 24 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I read the updates. I'm very strongly pro life and don't think people are born gay (although I can understand getting gay "vibes" if you know what I mean :| ), especially by way of natural selection. Homosexuals don't have kids, so even if there was a certain "gay" gene, it wouldn't be able to get passed on to the next generation. And I think government should continue to fund research on the most important things, at least for the time being. I don't think we should just throw on the brakes, but we shouldn't quite keep going as we are now. Other than that, I'm mostly with you :p 19:55, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

You have a good point there that gay people aren't motivated to pass on their genes, because that is a choice they have made. However, natural selection does not only occur between iduvidual and induvidual; if you work together as a group, you can sometimes accomplish more than you can on your own. I believe it is called "altruism". Take ants for example; their workers are sterile. They do not help spread the queen ant's genes in a very direct way. However, they have had other functions, such as food gathering for example, which indirectly help the queen survive and help pass on her genes that way.

I think that gay people have had a function when mankind needed to survive as cavemen and beyond. Perhaps a similar one to ants, or perhaps not; although, to be honest I am not exactly sure, as I lack constructive proof for my claims.

To a different point; you say you are "pro-life". Does that mean you are against abortion? Or perhaps the death penalty? I would like to hear your thoughts on this one. I would also be interested knowing what you mean by "fund(ing) research on the most important things". What is important to you? <font color="White">Wejer   20:30, 25 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually I'm against both capital punishment and abortion. Abortion because I personally believe life begins the moment sperm meets egg, and I believe all life is sacred, and likewise I'm against the death penalty because, also, all life is sacred and no human should have the right to take another person's life unless they're going to prevent them from hurting or killing someone else and there are no other options. The only exception I would make on abortion is when the mother's life is in jeopardy, and even then I would, naturally, make the abortion optional.


 * I maintain my position on homosexuality :P. Like I told the board of review a couple weeks ago when I was moving up a rank in boy scouts, "As a Christian I see homosexuality as wrong. As an American I believe we should have the right to live our personal lives the way we want." 05:18, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

edit I forgot to mention what I meant by "important" research. By that I mean we should help fund (even if only slightly) research into HIV/AIDS, space exploration (only for the time being, since private groups are only starting to take interest in the field), the possible causes, results, and even existence of global warming/cooling, etc. A thought I had pertaining to this was, perhaps, keep a low federal income tax and give discounts (maybe leading up to 100%?) according to donations to charity and/or research groups. I haven't put very much thought into that though. Too much happening in my personal life to worry about politics lately :s 05:25, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Interesting thoughts, especially your stance on the death penalty. Some pro-life christians would contrary to you claim that the death penalty should be an option against murderers and rapists, because they have "ruined" life that they hold sacred. I am glad that you have kept your head cool on this topic, since killing another human being, even if it is a criminal, is such a big waste.

I respect your standing on homosexualtiy but must however object. If you think gay people are "wrong" (even if someone proved that they were not born gay, and that it was a free choice), what should the punishment be? Wouldn't it be a logical (but scary) next step to actually criminalise gay people? Maybe force them to wear little pink triangles on their arms? That's what Hitler did in Nazi germany.

I realise from our discussions that you are not a fascist, and you would probably be horrified to be associated with them. Therefore I implore you to think again on this topic; just because the Bible is holy to you, it doesn't mean it is a good guide for modern society, because some sections were written more than 2000 years ago! Even if your God had good intentions when he gave its authors divine inspiration to write it down, the fact remains that the text was specifically written for people of another age and society, who had very little of the liberty we enjoy today.

To something else: you have come up with some good topics that could be classified as "important", and mostly I agree. However, there is acutally little need for them to be funded by taxpayers, as they can all be taken care off by charities, if they grow big enough. What keeps us from having space exploration foundation? Or a global warming foundation? Right now, government funding have led to environmentalists screaming after taxpayer's money, when they should instead look for people who would voluntarily part with their money. That way, everyone becomes happy.

In fact, the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation have multiple projects that together add up to tens of BILLIONS of dollars every year. One of these projects include research on combating and possibly curing HIV/AIDS.

Link: http://www.gatesfoundation.org/nr/public/media/annualreports/annualreport07/AR2007Statements.html

I think we should encourage more people like Bill Gates to contribute to charity because 1. they have extensive experience of handling finances (unlike government bureaucrats) and 2. they have A LOT of money they like to spend on a good cause, 'nuff said.

How would you encourage charity? As you said a 100% discount is a very good action. More long-term however we should focus on improving people wealth. Note that I do not say 'income', because a good income is no good for charities if you also have large expenses, since there is no spare cash to give to the needy. What I would propose is not only to lower taxes, but also to discourage loaning. That way we will slowly but surely create a good climate for good-will and charity.

By the way, what is your stance on embryo stem cells and animal testing? Is it a worthy goal to inflict pain and death on 'lower beings' to only possibly gain data that help us to save human lives? Where your pro-life loyalties lie here I would be interested to know. <font color="White">Wejer   10:43, 26 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I suppose I should clarify. I see homosexuality as wrong (sin would be more specific) since we're told (and I believe) that God dwells within us and we need to respect ourselves as such. I'm not saying we need to burn all homosexuals at the stake - I didn't mean to come across that way. In fact I believe they should have equal rights as everyone else. I know a few people through the independent study program I'm in who are gay and found out I'm a Christian. This was in the days just after prop 8 banned gay marriage in California (my state). They assumed I was one of those extreme "bigoted" people and have been harassing me ever since. I still know what they were like before they decided I was a Nazi, so I can see things from their point of view, to some extent.


 * When it comes to tackling gay rights, though, I'm still partially torn. On one hand I think it should be legal for everyone throughout the country. On the other hand, I have different fingers...I mean, on the other hand, I realize that many people are very uncomfortable with a gay society and I can empathize with them, so I sometimes think about making it a state issue. I also don't think we should just submerge ourselves in gay rights legislation. It's more of a gut feeling, though. What I mean is we shouldn't just cannonball into the deep end; we need to start out slowly and work up to total submersion (within half/all of a decade, I suppose).


 * My thoughts are similar with government research. We should cut it completely (or almost completely), but not overnight. Perhaps the government ought to begin projects that could be used by private industry. I know the Japanese have invested in further research toward material durable enough to support a space elevator. If they succeed, we could follow in their footsteps, and if we have a couple elevators up then we've bypassed the vastly most expensive part of space missions: escaping earth's gravity. After Uncle Sam has finished it/them, he can sell them off to private industry to do with them what they will.


 * I can't really speak for animal testing since I know so little about the processes involving it. My broad beliefs are that it's alright so long as the cause is reasonable, the animals are treated respectfully (clean cages, good food, some love and fun), and if the animal's death is required for the research, let it be quick and painless. i.e. put something in the food that will put them to sleep and cause them to pass away while at rest.


 * And as for embryonic stem cell research... I really don't know anything on the subject, so I can't take a stance. Sorry :( 21:29, 26 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Almost forgot, I actually intended to make the Die n00b picture look like the famous Che Guevara one XD. And yep, I've watched your talk page. :P 22:15, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

I am sorry for trying out that 'guilt by association' argument when it came to gay rights, it was not very nice. I guess I got a little worked up... I know you are a nice guy and not very radical. I still however can't see why you see something as (in my point of view) trivial as sexual orientations as sin, just because a 2000-year old book said so. I guess that proves what makes an atheist like me confused...

When it comes to any form of government spending, I would like to hurry slowly, in a pace that people can manage and feel comfortable with. Revolution is out of the question, I am almost shivering at the thought. We need to win people's whole hearted support in order to fully implement the increased liberty our societies so dearly needs.

Oh yes, you wanted some more information about animal testing and stem cells? Feel free to read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stem_cell_controversy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_testing#Ethics

<font color="White">Wejer   08:43, 27 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I'll be sure to read those in the morning after I get up, since I've been stuck pking for the last 4 hours.. without watching the clock... crap. I agree entirely that we shouldn't do anything too drastic too fast, both with spending increases as well as decreases. I believe a revolution is at hand, at least for the United States (you aren't American are you? I'm just guessing by the times you're active :P) although I think it will/should be more of an intellectual and nonviolent political revolution. Although Ron Paul is inching his way into the spotlight, I don't think he's going to last long, considering his age. I do however hope he's planted the seeds of thought for an upcoming generation to embrace.


 * And a final thought on homosexuality - I guess we'll have to agree to disagree :P. Personally I believe if God wanted us to change the religion for the times, he would tell us in one way or another, although I doubt it would be quite as obvious as it was before. But I don't know. I'm just keeping my eyes and ears open, and doing what the Church (I'm part of the Orthodox Church) has been doing for the last 2 thousand years :). 10:05, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

RE:"under constrution
It's actually {{ not ( like this {{under construction}} {{Signatures/Cruser234}} 16:01, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

I know that, it was intentional :) but thanks for your concern. <font color="White">Wejer    16:02, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

RE: Need help?
IF you need help contact me 16:04, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I will remember you. <font color="White">Wejer   16:06, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

No problem :) 16:08, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Hmm
While I do not agree with some of your view points, I give you respect for being able to speak your mind. Not many people can do that. Its take a lot to be able to speak of where you stand in life and being open about somethings just isn't easy. I respect your opinions as they are yours and do not pertain to me. Keep at whatever you're doing because you're doing great :). In case you ever need me you know where to find me :]. Happy Holidays!, 09:48, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Hmm..
Are you against Jews or not? I wouldn't put such ways to express myself as in your way in a Runescape wikia website.. Needs to be more about Runescape than you. -- 12:20, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

What exactly do you mean by 'against jews'? I am afraid that I cannot answer a question that is highly unspecific; explain yourself! <font color="White">Wejer   12:51, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

You say Jews must be pissed and all. Nazi or not? -- 13:41, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

That is the most unbelievable and ill-thought accusiation I have ever heard. My advice to you: learn to read.

I have made the following claims. It should be very clear that I think nazists are scum of this earth:


 * Adolf Hitler was a vegan, animal lover, homosexual and a snorter of cocaine. He was also a murderer, and showed us what will happen if a nobody gain too much power.
 * the Holocaust was an historical fact. Not surprisingly, the current President of Iran thinks otherwise.
 * it is no wonder Israel is pissed, having suffered so much hate from militant muslims and others.
 * Israel have succeeded in at least preserving a democratic tradition, even if it is far from a perfect one.

<font color="White">Wejer   13:45, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Can you be nice? I didn't read it all it was too much and too boring. And ok :/ -- 13:50, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Then I advice you to read the whole text in the future instead of making irresponsible claims about nazists. I apologize if you have been treated disrespectfuly, that was not my intention. <font color="White">Wejer   13:52, 26 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I didn't accuse you, i only asked.
 * That was really disrespectful :/.
 * Chill man. -- 13:59, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

If you don't want to sound accusing, you should not go around asking people if they are nazis or not in the first place. They will most likely take offence, just like me. <font color="White">Wejer   14:02, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Well instead of attacking me for a question try to answer a polite "No" instead of thinking me a fool. My advice to you: Keep it cool. -- 14:04, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Right, let's forget everything I have said to you, and start anew. *deep breath*

New answer: Thank you for your concern, but I must insist that I am not a nazi, please check my userpage for more info.

Wow, that actually felt a lot better, thanks. <font color="White">Wejer   14:08, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Er... Adolf hitler also Commited Suicide after the 2nd world war as germany didnt Get what Adolf hitler wanted to have. Signatures are the power!

For fascists, it seems that losing the game is more humiliating than taking your own life. Glad I am not one of them. <font color="White">Wejer   22:02, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Nice to meet you
I've read your user page, and it is certainly interesting.

Thank you for the "invitation" to at least introduce myself and perhaps have you get to know me a little better. I don't see any problem with you expressing your political opinions here, but I'd ask you to keep it here on talk/user pages than getting it all over the wiki. Internal wiki politics is bad enough without injecting larger national and international politics into the equation.

BTW, I tend to also consider myself a conservative libertarian (both little and big "L"). I guess it is summed up with the philosophy that people should do whatever they want as long as it doesn't harm somebody else, that most legislation is an awful thing and should usually be voted down, that the court system is the wrong place to enact legislation... where judges should openly express more often in their opinions that the law isn't explicit and therefore the parties involved should take it up with their legislative representatives instead of trying to settle the issue. I also think more judges should be much more aggressive at simply telling people to "grow up, act like adults, and settle this thing outside of my courtroom"... and throw cases in front of them out, including some (not all) criminal cases as well. I also believe that most legislators do their best when they tie up legislation in committee and keep it from even getting voted on in the first place.

(Unfortunately) I am a politician. I finally had enough of the local politics that I finally went to the election clerks where I live and put my name up for a municipal council seat, and I plan to go back and do that again this year. While I didn't win the seat on the last election, there were enough of my fellow citizens that agreed with my position to cast a vote on my behalf that I do feel encouraged to run again. This in spite of my absolutely huge ($20) campaign budget in the last election. I also serve on a couple of policy making boards for some non-profit charity groups and am trying to involve myself in my local community where I can.

Ah well, this whole issue with the confidential information is something I am passionate about, most particularly because apparently several individuals including administrators who should know better are removing content against site policy. I disagree that consensus was achieved on the earlier censoring of the information, and even more strongly I disagree that publication of the sort of information that is being openly censored is something that is harmful either to the continuation of this wiki or to the Runescape playing community. There are harmful things happening in the RS community that should be fought against, but this isn't one of them.

Sorry to take up your talk page here, but you certainly sound like an interesting person yourself. I don't agree with all of your positions, but at least you do have a personal life philosophy that is guiding your decision making. That is more than I've seen from some people. --Robert Horning 15:40, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Glad you enjoyed your stay here. I am putting your name under my 'Good company' heading, hope that is okay with you. I must say that I don't have much experience with law and court, but it certainly peaks my interest, and I can see why being a judge is tough work. If people want to settle something I agree that they should do that through discussion, compromises and consensus, unless they want to fight forever and come nowhere.

I am not very familar with the local politics, because I seldom read our community paper. Frankly, it is mostly full of whining or the polticians backstabbing one another, and it doesn't interest me.

We tend to not vote for a specific person like you do, but instead for the party they represent. This produces some interesting consequences from time to time, but it is usually a bad thing when party chairman orders everybody 'into line' to pass a specific regulation. This time it was increased mass surveillance, which is terrible.

In the end though, the world is changing for the better, even if it goes slower than a snail's pace. <font color="White">Wejer   18:31, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

RE: Great Minds Think Alike
Hello there, I read your message on my talk page and I saw that many people on this wiki think I'm am an atheist but I'm not anymore. I've decided to just become agnostic for the moment because I am undecided. I simply can't choose a side and its hard to tell who you are or what you represent when you are not sure of something. I quit playing RuneScape and I don't usually use this Wiki anymore. If you have a Myspace or a Youtubechannel you can add me if you like so we could share some videos and stuff. I'll love to stay and chat for a little longer but my computer is freezing every time I press the space bar. Peace ;) 18:49, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

I have actually never had a MySpace site. Maybe I shall start one. <font color="White">Wejer   18:56, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

My opinions on your opinions
Well, I read a majority of your opinions and I have think we will have to agree to disagree with a few things.


 * I am a very loyal practicing Christian and I believe God is the Creator and his son, Jesus is my Lord.
 * I am not very right-wing, in fact veer more towards the left, however as I am a Canadian and my political party resorted to a Vote of No-confidence to attempt to rid the Conservative government just two months after the people elected them, I am leaning a little more towards the right.
 * I think Obama is the best thing for America, however I feel people should wait to see him in action before they start building alters to praise him.
 * I believe Global Warming in inevitable for our future at this time.

Hope this clarifies some of our differences. Lol!

08:38, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Nice to meet you bonziiznob, and welcome to my user page.


 * I won't stop you for believing in a God, because it doesn't hurt me in anyway. However, I will always take my chance to make christianity less of a radical religion.
 * I don't have any so much knowledge about Canadian politics, so I can't make a very good statement there. However, from what I can see from this link (http://www.politicalcompass.org/canada2008), I must say that I don't really fancy any of the political parties you have in your parliament, since I am myself quite the right-wing libertian.
 * I guess Obama has been improving for the better now when he has won the election. Before I thought he wasn't very down to earth, perhaps because I personally tend to shun politicians that are overly charismatic. I actually considered McCain to be a better man; that is until I checked where he stood on social policies and received serious goose bumps. Hopefully Obama will continue lower the taxes for the average american and push for more peacefulness in the world.
 * Why do you think global warming is inevitable? Is it because of natural causes or because mankind has screwed up beyond repair?

<font color="White">Wejer   12:23, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Thank you


 * Christianity has been around for 2000 years. Although the Church has lost a majority of it's influence and power, there will be a time when Jesus returns and all will who do not believe or have faith will be doomed. Let's hope it's not in your time. Christ has Come, Christ has Gone, Christ will Come Again.
 * I was all for NDP. If you take a look at their platform it appears they had the most down to earth means of running Canada. When the conservative ran for a Majority Government just 1 year after they had won a minority, I was hoping the NDP would get a few extra seats. When the Conservatives won another minority, my party teamed with the Liberals and Quebec (who believe Quebec should separate from Canada), I was opposed to this vote of No-Confidence on the means that my party was teaming up with a party who wants to separate Canada.
 * Obama still has a long way to go. God forbid, I can honestly see him being assassinated. :(
 * Global Warming is the effect of Man. Sure there have been times when the planet has done this to its self, but it usually then follows with a huge ice age. The planet will restore itself, but I think we can give it a break and try our hardest to make it easier.

23:18, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Being a Christian too, I thought I should say something. Chances are that the end times and the rapture are near. This conclusion is made from these pieces of evidence. Anyway I've said my piece, one thing you should note is that all unbelievers get sent to Hell for eternity, so don't think that being an atheist won't harm you in any way. Calebchiam 07:00, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The Bible prophesied that the Jews would return to their homeland before the end times. In May 14 1948, the Jews returned to their homeland after being scattered for more than 2000 years.
 * The Bible also spoke of the mark of the beast (666), would be on every person's hand or forehead. But there will some believers who will refuse to have the mark and die because of this, becoming martyrs. It is believed that this mark will be in the form of a chip that is inserted under your skin. It will render credit cards useless and possibly cash too.
 * In Daniel 12:4, it is said that "many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased." which speaks of our knowledge increasing faster and faster. Think about it, and few hundred years ago, the fastest we could travel was by horseback. Now we can travel to the Moon! A few hundred years ago, the fastest way we could communicate was by letters, which were delivered on horseback. Now we have email, which does that for us in a few seconds!
 * In Zechariah 14:12, it says "And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth." This is talking about nuclear weapons, yet this was written thousands of years ago. How did a prophet predict this thousands of years ago? By the hand of God.


 * It doesn't really matter when the end times are. Just try to live as if they're tomorrow and don't worry about it :P 06:51, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

During the end times, people die. You should read theLeft Behind series for a more adept understanding. I believe people should worry about the future. Calebchiam 07:00, 29 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I mean it shouldn't matter as long as we live like it's tomorrow. Just like the teaching that if you live as if you could die tomorrow, then you'll always be ready for it when it actually does happen. :P 21:23, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Calebchiam, are you seriously suggesting people use a fictional interpretation of a book in the Bible as a cliffnotes of what will actually happen in the future in the real world? --nekobawt 00:51, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't interpret it literally, but embrace the basic message (although last I knew, Left Behind didn't align with my denomination's beliefs) like you would with, perhaps, the Great Divorce by C.S. Lewis. 04:20, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Re:Offer
Thank you for your offer. Since you asked, I will post some of my world views:


 * I generally dislike political framing (liberal, conservative, etc) but I found myself in the third quadrant (left wing libertian) close to the centre when I took the test.


 * I too consider myself a man of logic, but I do not find it logical for such a complex universe to have created itself. There must be a supreme being who created or oversees the creation of the world.  This makes me a man of faith as well as a man of logic.


 * I am a Christian and I attend church every Sunday, but I do not believe in a word for word interpretation of the Bible. A word for word interpretation is just as dangerous as complete disregard.  For example, although I am not gay myself I believe that gays should be allowed to legally wed as they are not hurting anyone.


 * I consider myself strongly pro-life and try to abide by a consistent life ethic. This means that I am against all forms of capital punishment, abortion, suicide, and unjust war.  Although teen pregnancy and personal poverty are undesirable circumstances, avoiding them does not justify taking a life. Dtm142 21:07, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
 * That's the spirit Dtm. Believe in faith, not religion. The Church has always been a bit screwed up as it will continue to be so. That is no reason to give up in what you believe in :).(You believe in what you believe in and no one can take that away from you.), 21:11, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Various studies show that theists have better morals than atheists (and live longer too!) on average.  However, there have been countless occurences in history of religious extremists taking things too far   .  Religious tolerance is essential to prevent these events from reoccuring. Dtm142 21:23, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Dude, Dtm, you sound like me. Are you my long lost twin or something? 21:32, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Re:Offer
Even though you're gone until January 12th, I figured I should respond to your offer. I've read most of your points and I agree with you on some but disagree on others. Now, I am not an atheist, however I do not follow any church or religion very closely, although my basic beliefs follow Christian or Uranitian more than any other, I suppose. I am also not unreasonable, however, I, like most other humans in the world, believe that I am right, and will do many things to accomplish being right.

Anyway, now that I've given you a little background information on myself, I will tell you which points I want to comment on:


 * I agree with you about abortion for the most part, however, I think that it is not only the woman's choice, but the father (or the man that the woman is currently involved with at the time) should have his say in it as well, unless the baby is the result of rape. I'm a little harsh on the teen pregnancy issue. Since the parents usually end up taking care of the baby if it's born, and if it isn't it may ruin the girl's life as she still has to go to school and may have to get a job and such, I think that the parent's should have the final say in the matter if the daughter is under 16, although 18 is a more convenient age as the legal age for most things in my country (the United States) is 18.


 * I am not here to tell you what you should believe in or get in a heated religious debate, nor do I believe that you will go to hell for simply not believing in God or Jesus Christ. I do, however, wonder why someone would choose to be an atheist. By this, I ask why would someone not want to believe that there is eternal life after death, or at least some form of life? Why would this person want to believe that when they die everything is simply "over", and there is nothing more? Does an atheist choose to be an atheist because they have had a traumatic experience in there life, or because there is no evidence that proves God exists?


 * I believe that communism has a decent concept, however, I am not a communist nor do I support communism. I believe that communism fails in the fact that it does not allow any religion. I do not believe that religion should be forced, but surely simply allowing it does not interfere very much, if at all. [[Image:Rollbackcrown.PNG‎]] Kudos 2 U Talk! Edit count! Contribs! 01:25, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The way I see it, Communism only works on paper. It doesn't work in practice. Also on the topic of teen or otherwise unwanted pregnancy - they don't have to keep the child. When the baby is born they can put it up for adoption if they can't keep it, and there are many charities and other groups that will happily help someone who is having difficulty taking care of herself during pregnancy. As for schooling.. well, I'm in an independent study program, and about 1/4 of the students are expectant mothers. It works very well for them. They can come in every day and get ahead credit-wise and then take a couple weeks off after they have their baby without falling terribly behind. It's an excellent program :) 04:24, 30 Decem:ber 2008 (UTC)
 * While you are correct that they don't have to keep the child, you forget the pain of having the baby. While nowadays most women take an epidural to reduce pain, some may think that this is wrong, and some just don't have the baby at a hospital where epidurals are easier to obtain. What I mean by all this is that the pain of having the baby combined with all the stress that a teen mother may have, this may cause her to which to have an abortion. I think that she should be allowed to have an abortion, but she must ask her parents for consent if she is under 16. My reasoning against your idea of adoption is the fact that the mother having the baby may not want to endure the pain of the baby and couldn't live with giving it up to someone else. While I think that both of those reasons are very selfish, the cold hard truth is it happens. This may drive many mothers to abortion, which I believe is much better than say, having someone punch the mother in the stomach, don't you? The fact is that some forms of abortion are going to happen anyway, so it's better to have them available than to force the mother and anyone else around her into trying unprofessional methods that may cause severe defects to the baby if it survives, or severe damage to the mother. As for schooling, independent study programs have been proven to be less effective than traditional schooling. Taking a "couple weeks" off of school will not help a single teen mother who just had a baby. It would be much easier for the mother to have an abortion now, and then when or if she is ready at an older age to make an educated decision on whether or not she really wants a baby or not. Wall of text... :( [[Image:Rollbackcrown.PNG‎]] Kudos 2 U Talk! Edit count! Contribs! 11:11, 30 December 2008 (UTC)