Talk:Trade limit

(copy-paste from runescape.com):

5. Is it a scam to ask for lots of money for an item?

It is not considered a scam to ask for large amounts of money for an item, but it is not in the spirit of fair play to over price an item. It is not our intention to set limits on what players trade. It is a player's responsibility to make sure that they are paying a good price for an item. We would suggest doing research prior to future trades by using the applicable forums or talking to other players.

Comment plz!

What about 250+ qps??? 50K diff?

10:13, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, no. 30k is the current maximum. [[Image:Robin_hood_hat.PNG]] Aquilae 01:51, 14 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Haha, JaGeX is making soo much quests. When they passed 300qps they start going further then 30K.
 * And one time they go soooo far that we can give a Dragon chainbody free again.
 * Well, no. Then they will change it again. Not 180 gold per quest done, but like 90 gold or something...
 * JAGEX, HOW MANY QUESTS DO YOU WANT TO MAKE, it has to stop sometime?
 * 12:34, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
 * That's just silly. As long as there is RuneScape, quests will always be an integral part of the game. Stopping new quests would be like releasing a new skill, with no intent to update it in the the future. 22:08, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Incorrect Formula
The formula used is wrong. By the current formula, 270*(211+5/9) = 57,120; NOT the 60,000 as it should. I'm not sure how exactly it works, but it is wrong.Chewy 01:33, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Fixed. Thanks for pointing it out. 04:50, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Merge
I don't think this article does much use on its own. Perhaps we should merge it with trading as the limits are already there.
 * Considering the amount of RSOF spam about it, the trade limit is notable enough for its own article.
 * Yeah, I agree, I think this is notable. 23:16, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Violating spirit of the rules is ok as long as we stick to the letter of the law?
I am referring to the section "workarounds" in the article. Right, it does NOT violate the letter of the rules. But even its title of workarounds is clearly violating the spirit of the rules in finding ways to get around them. I do not want to get in an edit war, so I would like a few other peoples comments regarding this. I strongly believe that section should be removed.--Degenret01 03:28, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yet we need to have some mention of junk trading on the wiki. I would still have no idea whatsoever what 'junk trading' is if it weren't for the disputed section of this article. If the title of "Workarounds" doesn't work for you, why not just change the title? -- 03:37, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

The title only announces that "here is a way to get around a jagex rule". Changing the title would still leave the instructions on how to do so.--Degenret01 03:50, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Also consider that some people will use this to start macro accounts again, and obtain their items from their macros. So this is really encouraging rule breaking. We are not supposed to help rule breakers "workaround" the rules.--Degenret01 05:03, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Then just add a notice saying RSwiki does not sanction illegal trading practices and does not recommend them. Or something. But leave junk trading in. -- 05:43, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * And hold it- how will including a section on junk trading lead to increased macro activity? -- 05:46, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Because people will realize that there IS a way to get thier p ess or coal or fish or wood from their macros, by "junk trading" for it. And a simple notice does do not do anything, we're teaching how to break rules, and the wikia is against breaking rules.--Degenret01 13:38, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm going to suggest perhaps reworking this section some. I agree that encouraging others to break the terms of service for the game is something this wiki should not be doing. Besides the good faith that we get from Jagex to be able to use screen captures and otherwise using images that are copyrighted by Jagex, generally speaking I'm not supportive of those who try to spell out how to live on the edge and push the game to the max avoiding what has been a disruptive part of the game.

Junk trades are something that either deserve its own section or perhaps even its own separate article. I have seen junk trades openly performed by legitimate players who are trying to obtain items that are simply trading well outside of their expected value if the market price restrictions weren't so stringent. In fact, I assert that junk trades are a bug that Jagex simply refuses to fix for some bizzare reason, and has a number of causes which are largely tied to mis-management of the Grand Exchange. Of course this is my opinion and working that into something NPOV may be a bit tougher. It is certainly something tied to working around trade limits, but is most often legitimate trade. "Junk" like gold bars or willow logs (common types of junk traded) are far too over priced on the GE for what most people would be willing to buy them for.

The bounty hunter issue is something that perhaps ought to be moved to Real world trading, as it really isn't so much getting around trade restrictions but out right circumvention of player to player trades. You wouldn't normally (as a legitimate transaction to obtain something like a p-hat) go to the bounty hunter mini-game just to get around the Grand Exchange trading limits. This is purely to circumvent the trade limits in order to transfer massive quantities of gold coins for other than in-game considerations. If the coins are lost in the transaction due to the prospective target getting "captures" or killed by another player, that is simply the cost of business. Some more coins will be collected and given to the paying customer anyway. As such, it has nothing to do with trade limits other than to demonstrate the extreme lengths that some people will go in order to get around those limits.

BTW, I don't "get it" why Jagex even permits this kind of behavior, and it is something that very easily could change due to gangs of gold farmers who use this method of wealth transfer.

The Party Room situation is also something similar to the bounty hunter, perhaps more so. I never realized the extent that some players would go for this kind of thing, and apparently the "trading limits" in the party room are larger than even completing 200 quest points. I still don't think it is as big of a deal as is suggested, especially with a 50k trade limit without attracting a crowd. But this is something that should be addressed separately and not mixed with junk trades.

As far as "buying" resources from macroers... it is really irrelevant anyway. Coins can get you anything you want in nearly any quantity that you desire, and that is the primary issue that RWTers use to transfer items to you. The Macroers getting pure essence, coal, or fish are doing that only because it is another way for them to earn money quickly and without having to spend too much real-world money on people doing the more complicated stuff. A gold farmer could manage 3-5 accounts while mining pure essence simultaneously... for example. Fishing even more so... even with random events. I'm not going to pretend it isn't happening anymore, but the main issue with this article is about how the trading limits work and why they are in place, not on how to avoid them. --Robert Horning 14:49, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * There are so many ways that the trade limit does not solve its intended purpose. The main issue of junk gaining some temporary inflated value for use to tip the balance seems a major issue for the GE mechanics. Describing what takes place in the game seems quite within the spirit of the law. The indicated text is to my opinion perfectly reasonable. It does not promote the use of the method nor does it explain how to abuse the GE to inflate the price of an item. When buying an item at a price that is well over the GE price, it helps to understand the purpose of the junk items when conducting the trade. Miw 14:15, 16 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Maybe I'm a bit naive, but which of Runescape's 15 rules indicate a spirit of "no unbalanced trade"? I always thought the spirit of removing unbalanced trade was removing real-world trading.  You've labelled AndorinKato as encouraging cheating.  How is this cheating?  01:59, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

The "spirit of the law" is to stop real world trading, junk trades in no way encourge this neither can they be seen as a form of cheating since no one gains "an unfair advantage"— Jagex's broad definition of cheating. Moreover, stating that the party room and Bounty Hunter are very limited or dangerous ways to partially circumvent the rules in no way encourages people to break the rules anymore than my writing an article on a real world bank heist encourages people to rob a bank. It should be kept in and the idea that Andorin is somehow encouraging cheating is as spurious as it is preposterous.-- 02:23, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Also, under this logic, should we delete scam, macro, RWT, luring, etc? I haven't heard anyone crying out "Macro will make people use bots!" although that's the exact same logic that's being applied here. There's no "rule-breaking" going on as long as we inform without encouraging, like we've done with similar pages. Junk trading is a part of the RuneScape community, and as such deserves a mention on this wiki for all things RuneScape, either through a section on this page or its own article. -- 02:47, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Ok, real simple here, the DIFFERENCE between those other items and this one, is that THIS one say "hey, heres how to get around that trade limit". But since me and the guy who told me about it are the only 2 to see it, forget it, its all good. Lets go back to reverting vandalism and get away from pointless discussions. (meaning this one in pointless, not all are)--Degenret01 05:41, 17 June 2008 (UTC)


 * To give it a new perspective, consider this. Even to this day, there is no unbalanced trading.  Since Jagex decided to be the sole authority on what items are worth, they define when a trade is balanced.  Therefore, junk trading is still balanced trade.  To suggest that it is any different would require a subjective view of what an item's worth is, which Jagex has made impossible with their own update.   21:29, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

idea to make trading a bit more fair
The limit sould be +xgp of the max price and -xgp of the min price, not both being focused on market price. Who agrees with me? Mathwiz908 01:32, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Noticed change in trade limit.
This is possibly a glitch. With 153 Quest Points it said I was allowed to gain or lose 35250 gold. Has anyone else seen this? Rigaku 15:19, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
 * With the new edition of the Postbag, Jagex changed the trade limit. Sir Revan125 15:20, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

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