FANDOM


This talk page is for discussing the Britain page.

UK

Britain is often referred to as the UK, also the UK  is a country (sovereign state) while Wales is a principality? I understand that the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland also includes the islands of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, as well as Britain. The first sentance of the wikipedia article says: "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland,  commonly known as the United Kingdom (UK) and Britain" Italay90 (talk) 13:27, July 4, 2013 (UTC)

Great Britain == Britain in that context I think. Ancient talisman Oil4 Talk 13:36, July 4, 2013 (UTC)
It can refer to both, historical/political or Britain geographical. Great Britain is made up of Scotland, England (constituent countries) and Wales (principality), islands like Shetland and Orkney in Scotland make-up Great Britain politically, but not geographically (they are considered part of the United Kingdom (which is made up of Great Britain and Northern Ireland) but not the island of Great Britain/Britain) Italay90 (talk) 14:21, July 4, 2013 (UTC)
This is all very nice. However, where in the RuneScape game does it say "United Kingdom", "UK", or any variation thereof? If the United Kingdom or UK is not mentioned in the game, then referencing it in this article is not needed, as there will be no references to it in game. Blaze_fire.png12.png 20:22, July 4, 2013 (UTC)
Unless you don't know, or can't read "Britain" is a variation of United Kingdom. Please read above. Italay90 (talk) 20:23, July 4, 2013 (UTC)
Simple question. Is it referred to as the United Kingdom in game? If yes, then it can still. If not, then no. Britain is the island. UK refers to the political borders, as you have said. How do you know that the RuneScape time period doesn't take place before the political borders of the UK existed? Blaze_fire.png12.png 20:27, July 4, 2013 (UTC)
It may? How can you be sure it is referring to the island? It maybe referring to the Kingdom of Great Britain, United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland etc. Today, this is known asthe United Kingdom, and, as "Britain" may refer EITHER to the Island or the country then it is only logical we include both to inform readers'? You cannot be sure it is referring to the island as it has multiple variations. eg. If Ireland were to be in-game it could refer to the island of Ireland or the Republic of Ireland, and we cannot be sure, which is why we must include both. Italay90 (talk) 20:32, July 4, 2013 (UTC)
Read the article. "Rather than a true "realm" as such, it is an island". As this is Britain the island, it is therefore not referring to the UK, and as such the mention of the UK should be removed. Blaze_fire.png12.png 20:39, July 4, 2013 (UTC)
and yet that is not found in-game. Italay90 (talk) 20:41, July 4, 2013 (UTC)
What's not found in-game? Specifically referring to the island itself? Blaze_fire.png12.png 20:42, July 4, 2013 (UTC)
Does anyone have a quote of the dialogue that mentions "Britain" in-game?04ismailjj6 (talk) 20:48, July 4, 2013 (UTC)
King Arthur's examine is "Legendary King of the Britons". I'm sure there's dialogue but I can't look it up right now. Blaze_fire.png12.png 20:50, July 4, 2013 (UTC)
Briton refers to citizens of the United Kingdom or celtic peoples of Britain before the Roman period. However, King Arthur says 'Back in England, Merlin got himself trapped...' England was a country which is now part of the United Kingdom (and is still refered to as England today, however it is no longer a country). Also, he mentions that the grail has been moved from England into the realm of RuneScape.Italay90 (talk) 20:56, July 4, 2013 (UTC)
During the time England was in existance (at all) the celtic Britons were not, meaning that they are referring to the United Kingdom. Italay90 (talk) 21:00, July 4, 2013 (UTC)
-- The Celtic Britons are pre-roman, and refer to the people on the island of Great Britain, while post-roman Britons refers to the people of the United Kingdom. It is clear this is post-Roman as England exists, which is today part of the United Kingdom, hense meaning that "Briton" refers to the peoples of the United Kingdom. Italay90 (talk) 21:04, July 4, 2013 (UTC)

(resetting)

King Arthur is a legendary British leader of the late 5th and early 6th centuries, who, according to medieval histories and romances, led the defence of Britain against Saxon invaders in the early 6th century.
 
The area now called England was first inhabited by modern humans during the Upper Palaeolithic period, but it takes its name from the Angles, one of the Germanic tribes who settled during the 5th and 6th centuries. England became a unified state in 927 AD, and since the Age of Discovery, which began during the 15th century, has had a significant cultural and legal impact on the wider world.
 
England

There was no unified England, never mind a United Kingdom, at the time of King Arthur. Therefore the term "Britain" in this case could mean "the area controlled by the ethnic group called the Britons". In any case, it is unlikely that it means "the United Kingdom", as there was no United Kingdom then (that came with Acts of Union 1707, Acts of Union 1800, and Anglo-Irish Treaty). Small recharge gem AnselaJonla Slayer-icon 21:12, July 4, 2013 (UTC)

And yet there is no references to the island of Great Britain? Only to the Britons who lived in southern Britain and neither is there any references to any countries. England (Land of the Angles) did not compromise of the entirity of Great Britain. There is only refences of the Angles and Britons of Britain? Therefore this article makes no sense?!! As no true locations are given, only England. Rename? 31.55.113.111 21:36, July 4, 2013 (UTC)

Simple question: What is it called in game? Unless my memory has failed me, it has always been referred to as Britain and therefore renaming this to England is confusing and pointless. We have no interest in the modern day geographical politics, we simply take what's stated in game and build an article on it without speculating on what it may mean.
  1. REDIRECT User:Cqm/Signature

Context?

If someone could provide a list of where this is mentioned in-game that would be great. Like Cam said, it's about the game not the modern day politics and geography. A list of references to Britain and Britons in-game follows:-

King Arthur's examine is "Legendary King of the Britons".

There's also some dialogue during the quests Merlin's Crystal, Holy Grail and King's Ransom which I can't remember and unfortunately the quests don't have dialogue pages. If someone can remember, or is in a position to do the quests please add the dialogue to the wiki.

Then we can decide based on the context. 04ismailjj6 (talk) 09:51, July 5, 2013 (UTC)

The only dialouge (which I am aware of) is:

King Arthur: 'The grail has been moved from England into the realm of RuneScape'

King Arthur: 'Back in England, Merlin got himself trapped...'

Examing King Arthur: "Legendary King of the Britons".

Now, being "King of the Britons" means that Britain had to be united politically, making it a kingdom in its on right - or a collection of kingdoms which ruled one monarch (ie. Kingdom of Scotland and England). Italay90 (talk) 10:03, July 5, 2013 (UTC)

"'The legendary Arthur developed as a figure of international interest largely through the popularity of Geoffrey of Monmouth's fanciful and imaginative 12th-century Historia Regum Britanniae (History of the Kings of Britain). Geoffrey depicted Arthur as a king of Britain who defeated the Saxons and established an empire over Britain, Ireland, Iceland, Norway and Gaul"  - King Arthur, Wiki
This is (ofcourse) myth but would mean that he would be sovereign of a fake "Kingdom of Britain" ? Any other suggestions...? Italay90 (talk) 10:09, July 5, 2013 (UTC)
It's an island. That's it. Ancient talisman Oil4 Talk 10:10, July 5, 2013 (UTC)
Actually, Britons refers to native britains, as opposed to angles. In terms of language they spoke brythonic, which was spoken from around the time of the roman occupation and has evolved into modern day welsh and cornish.
  1. REDIRECT User:Cqm/Signature
Islands don't have Kings. In what way does that Dialouges refer to the island of Great Britain?!?! Italay90 (talk) 10:19, July 5, 2013 (UTC)
King Arthur was added into the game in 2002, when membership was added. This was back when it was just Andrew, Paul and Ian. Do you really think they gave so much thought to this NPC? You are reading waaaaay too much into it. Ancient talisman Oil4 Talk 10:38, July 5, 2013 (UTC)
Kings have Kingdoms - common sense. Italay90 (talk) 10:43, July 5, 2013 (UTC)

Change/Remove the Article.

Britain is never refered to ingame. The following dialouge does closely relate to Britain yet not directly, and in no-way refences to the island of Great Britain.

Definitions of Words.

  • Britons were Celtic peoples who lived in Great Britain before and during the Roman period.
  • England may refer to the "Land of the Angles" or the Kingdom of England which united in 927. England does not compromise the island of Great Britain.

No references to Britain (or Great Britain) may be found in-game - as far as I am aware of. Italay90 (talk) 10:42, July 5, 2013 (UTC)

Or let's say England lies within Great Britain, and Britons are "(briton) Britisher: a native or inhabitant of Great Britain" --Google Dictionary. So, All these three mentionings apply to Britain, and there's no need mentioning the United Kingdom, since back in the time of King Arthur, the Kingdom was not yet United. The legend of King Arthur takes place during the late 5th and early 6th centuries, and the United Kingdom was formed in 1707. However, the island of Great Britain has always been there, so the only real group name for the island we can use for King Arthur is Britain or Great Britain. The United Kingdom did not exist back in his time, so it makes no sense at all renaming it or even mentioning it in the article. If people really want to have the difference between all these things explained, they'd just go to this vid, not to the rswiki. JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 13:40, July 5, 2013 (UTC)
Support - Fantastic idea, well spotted! Cake Implement it ASAP (^_^) Temujin 13:42, July 5, 2013 (UTC)
Aganist - the definition of Briton in context refers to the celtic peoples who did not exclusively reside in Great Britain, and are not native to the island. A more realiable source than google, the Oxford Dictonary, defines "Briton" as (in context) a Celtic inhabitant of southern Britain before and during Roman times. Britons also resided in Britanny and Leon in France and Spain respectively.
"native Britons had largely been extinguished,[12] remaining only in Wales, Cornwall, parts of Cumbria and Eastern Galloway" - Britons, Wikipedia
If you are unsure this applies to King Arthur - think again, as under notable Britons, King Arthur is listed. England was once called "Englaland" which translates roughly to Land of the Angles. Absolutely no references towards the Island of Great Britain maybe found. Just because Briton sounds like Britain doesn't make it British. Italay90 (talk) 15:57, July 5, 2013 (UTC)
Your logic is fallacious and your pontification futile. Just leave it be, because your answer is much more farfetch'd. MolMan 16:01, July 5, 2013 (UTC)
+1 Temujin 16:07, July 5, 2013 (UTC)
Theres a difference between far-fetched and fact. The links are there, I'm happy to be proved wrong. Italay90 (talk) 16:03, July 5, 2013 (UTC)

I'll just put it this way. This wiki is not for historic explanation of the term Britain or Briton. The consensus here is to keep the article the way it is, so we are going to keep it that way. This discussion is now closed. Do not make your changes regardless of the result of this discussion, because if you do that, you'll be blocked. I'm not going to keep having this argument with you either. You've made your point, and everyone but you is in agreement that the article is good the way it is now. This discussion is closed. JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 16:04, July 5, 2013 (UTC)

Community content is available under CC-BY-SA unless otherwise noted.