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Forums: Yew Grove > Allow players to have more than one account in RSW
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This thread was archived on 5 September 2016 by Liquidhelium.

Currently players are only allowed to have one account be a member of the clan. I propose that we increase the limit to 2 accounts. At the time when this restriction was put in place there was a high demand for clan spaces, but this is no longer the case. Lifting this limit would allow players with secondary accounts, like ironman accounts, to join the clan and make use of clan features.

There are some things to consider if we do increase the account limit though:

  1. Ranks - I suggest that people who have passed a request for clan chat rank should have the same rank on a secondary account as on a main account. This would make it easier for people to use their rank tools when necessary, without the need for them to change between accounts. However, ranks would have to have their secondary account's name listed on RS:RANKED, and rank would be removed on both accounts in the event of de-ranking.
  2. Raffle - I propose that we allow players to enter up to two accounts into the raffle, providing that both accounts have capped that week. Since it would be difficult to keep track of which accounts are owned by who, I would propose that raffle prizes would only be allowed to be collected by the account that won them, to prevent problems with false claims etc.

Magic logs detailIsobelJRaw rocktail detail 15:31, August 27, 2016 (UTC)

Discussion

Question - How many spots are used out of how many allowed? And when did we last eliminate those who gained 0 Xp in (x) months? Degenret01 (talk) 16:21, August 27, 2016 (UTC)

Gaz already put some stats about the current number of people in the clan and inactivity kicks below. We track activity weekly and I believe the proportion of inactive clan members is fairly constant. Magic logs detailIsobelJRaw rocktail detail 09:48, August 30, 2016 (UTC)

Soft-ish oppose - While it's true that clan size hasn't been a huge issue for us lately, I'm still wary about opening up a free-for-all for people to add second accounts without at least some kind of limitations in place, especially since we have generally been skirting close to the 400-450 mark. At the time of writing, we are at 452/500 spots. (Current number here) We last did the kicklist in June 2016, when 50 people were kicked. The kicklist before that one seems to be May 2015.

If the concern is that ranks are inconvenienced by having to login to a main account, I would be willing to support allowing second accounts for ranked users (sergeant and up) only, as there is at least a legitimate purpose here. Furthermore, if there are space issues, people with secondary accounts should be clearly told that the inactivity threshold for kicking secondary accounts is much higher than for kicking primary accounts (i.e. your primary account is safe at just 1 xp/month, while your secondary account should be actually played to warrant a clan spot, say maybe 25k xp/month or a lot of face time in the clan for the socialites).

So apparently Jagex changed the rules and I didn't know about it. I would oppose allowing transferring citadel raffle winnings in any case, regardless of whether the secondary account is verified, primarily because I don't want to give the impression that we skirt Jagex's rules. While I would interpret the citadel raffle as rewarding the player, it is completely reasonable for someone else to interpret the raffle as rewarding the account. Because of this, allowing the transfer of raffle winnings can be construed as violating the no interaction between accounts rule. It's a stretch, but I think we should be on the safe side and avoid all possible appearance of impropriety here.

Lastly, what is the impetus for this proposal? Are there people who actually want their secondary accounts in RSW? How many? --LiquidTalk 18:21, August 27, 2016 (UTC)

I only tend to kick the accounts with the least XP until we have enough breathing room. Last time it was 50, but there were 129 eligible to be kicked at the time of kicking (not to mention the ranks that got a free pass simply because they were ranked and not because they actually did login recently). There's plenty more that can be kicked if we need more space - some of these people have been on the last several possible lists but evaded it because of their large amount of clan XP.
We'd need to maintain a list of alt accounts, which I can see being a pain but doable. Probably easiest to use in-game friends lists to maintain links for name changes.
Interaction between accounts is a non-issue. (wtf why don't they have a ToC or anchors for these ffs)
I feel like the immediate change would be less than 10 accounts. Weird gloop @Gaz#7521 18:41, August 27, 2016 (UTC)
As Gaz already pointed, there are actually a lot of accounts that meet the inactivity requirement for kicking and which could be kicked in the event of us needing more spaces. I am thinking the increased account limit would mainly be taken up by players who have secondary ironman accounts. If this had been suggested immediately after the release of ironmen I think there could have been many players trying out the update and wanting to join the clan, but since its been some time since the release of ironmen I think the number now will be much smaller. I also suggested increasing the limit to 2, rather than removing it altogether, to prevent the number of accounts wanting to join from being too high (I also think its unlikely that 3 or more accounts would all be played actively).
I don't think its feasible to have a list of all clan members' secondary account names and I don't think doing so is necessary anyway. How would we determine that accounts were owned by the same player? I can't see a way to verify that. I'm also sceptical such a thing would be maintained (given that the list of ranks' RSNs on RS:RANKED is not really kept up to date currently). All of the issues that would require an updated list of secondary accounts' owners could be addressed in other ways:
  1. Activity: I don't see why secondary accounts should be subject to higher activity requirements when we had approximately 1/3 of existing clan members being eligible for kicking due to inactivity at the last clear out. Secondary accounts should have the same activity requirements (including the part about kicking dead ironmen who can no longer gain xp) as any other account.
  2. Raffle: the only issue I see with the raffle is a scenario where someone says that they own an account who won a prize but want to collect it on another account, but they are not actually the owner of the winning account. This can be avoided simply by adding the rule I suggested about having to collect on the winning account. Because ironmen can't enter the raffle anyway, and I'm expecting most secondary accounts will be ironmen, I don't think this will come up too much.
  3. Kicks/bans: I assume that in the event of an account being kicked/banned from the clan we would ideally want to take the same action on all the player's accounts. We could use common sense here, and rely on our knowledge of who owns what accounts to take actions against alternate accounts. Not an ideal solution, but luckily it's very rare to kick/ban people from the clan so this shouldn't come up too often either.
Of course if we ask ranked users to declare their secondary account for it to be ranked there is no way to verify if a ranked user actually owns an account either. However since ranked users are expected to be trustworthy, being dishonest about account ownership would presumably call their rank into question and act as a deterant to doing so in the first place. Magic logs detailIsobelJRaw rocktail detail 09:48, August 30, 2016 (UTC)
Another thought: RS:RAFFLE#Organisers and helpers's access to the dropbox/spreadsheet is not dependent on a particular RuneScape account. It would probably be useful to do the same thing as for clan ranks; maintaining a list of any secondary account's names and allowing the user to do raffle stuff using either of their accounts. Magic logs detailIsobelJRaw rocktail detail 10:02, August 31, 2016 (UTC)

Support - The whole one-account-per-person thing has been such an established rule that I never really questioned until now. We're not as strapped for space as we used to be, and there are many slots that can be cleared if necessary. There aren't so many people, I'd imagine, who'd have an alt invited into the clan to the point where space would be an issue again. Liquid's point about higher ranks having access to their clan tools on an alt is true, though at the same time I have to say I... don't think having those tools accessible would be that big of a deal except in time-sensitive emergencies or something. As for how strict we'd be about kicking alt accounts, well I mean we have to consider how strict we are for people's mains, especially older wikians who don't drop by for many months at a time. Probably give them the same leniency. Anyway this proposal is pretty harmless and would help people at least a little bit.  Panjy16  19:03, August 27, 2016 (UTC)

Support all - Star Talk Star sprite 19:12, August 27, 2016 (UTC)

support - did you invite Elune to clan again joel? Korasi's sword Archmage Elune  TalkHS Void knight deflector fetus is my son and I love him. 19:28, August 27, 2016 (UTC)

Comment - I'm not a member of RSW, but I thought I'd provide you with some info on how we handle it in my clan. Clan members can have (up to) 2 accounts in the clan, 1 ironman and 1 normal. One of those accounts is perpetually a recruit. Usually players pick the ironman to be the perpetual recruit. --User:Saftzie/Signature 21:39, August 27, 2016 (UTC)

Support - I don't like triple slashes. More seriously though, we don't need to tell everyone in the clan they can do this, and invite them, but if someone asks, we can say yes. It's more convenient for people with alts/ironmen to interact with us. -- 21:48, August 27, 2016 (UTC)

Meh - Provided both accounts are actually active in the clan then sure (i.e not having an alt account in the clan for the sake of it). Haidro (talk) 03:31, August 28, 2016 (UTC)

Support - Lucky chaotic claw Metal Angel cut your wrists 14:17, August 30, 2016 (UTC)

Support - With the proviso that both accounts are active in the cc and that ranked users declare both accounts should they have more than one. I don't think it's worth de/non-ranking one or the other because it's the secondary account as we trust the person behind the account rather than the account itself. User:Cqm/Signature

Comment - To address Liquid's last point: there's a grand total of perhaps 5 or 6 people who would benefit from this change. 5-x Talk 22:09, August 30, 2016 (UTC)

Closed - The accounts per person limit will be raised to two. Secondary accounts can have identical rights as primary accounts for all purposes, by request. --LiquidTalk 20:16, September 5, 2016 (UTC)

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