Forum:Coins, gp, gold, gold pieces, cash...

Forums: Yew Grove > Coins, gp, gold, gold pieces, cash...

Recently while browsing, I've noticed a large amount of people using many, many forms of referring to money. What really puts me off is how unproffesional it looks. As should be obvious, 277,100 coins is much better than '267.1k', yet many people on this wiki fail to acknowledge this. While in-game, many people call money "GP", though this seems only to be used as an effort to save time typing. As such, many wikians have adopted this habit. In my opinion however, this can pretty much destroy articles. In my experience, I've noticed that articles are much cleaner and sound much better by replacing 'gp' and 'gold pieces' with the standard form of "Coins." As you will find in-game, they have a name of "Coins." As I'm sure you will like to mention, Jagex does call them "gp" and "gold" in-game. However, they are called "coins" in the game, so I think we should keep this standard. As such, I propose we change the Style guide to include something similar to this:

• When referring to money, all articles must use "Coins" to replace terms such as "GP", "Gold", "Gold Pieces", and "Cash." In addition to that, players should not use terms such as "K" or "M". When using fluctating prices, players should use the Grand Exchange Market Watch templates for prices.

Support - As Nom-Nominator. --

Captain Sciz

Talk • Edits • Hiscores File:Runecrafter hat.png|link=

00:44, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Would this be added to the Abbreviations section or would it be under a new heading? --Iiii I I I 00:47, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

I think this should be in a different, possibly it's own, as it's a rather large problem with many articles, and if we just lump it with something else, then it's likely to get over-looked. --

Captain Sciz

Talk • Edits • Hiscores File:Runecrafter hat.png|link=

00:51, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Strong oppose Neutral, light Oppose - I honestly think saying "gp" is better. All currencies have their official name, then a shortened version for when referring to an amount of money. Example: There is American Dollars, then you have US$200. In RuneScape's case, you have coins/gold pieces, then you have 200gp. Chicken7 ^>talk 01:29, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Neutral - Per Chicken7  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ancient Blades (talk) on 02:25, February 4, 2010 (UTC).

Strong Support - Although saying "gp" is easier, saying "coins" is the correct method. The official in-game item name is coins, and that is what it should be referred to as. Gp is merely slang, a method that involves less work to produce the same result. However, it is not what the in-game item name, so it should not be used. For example, our articles refer to the Dragon pickaxe as a dragon pickaxe, and not a drag pick or a d pik. Coins should be no different from other items. --Liquidhelium 02:36, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Strong support The style guide in fact used to include this very example, saying that "gp" should be replaced with "coins", and therefore "10k" (for example) should be replaced with "10,000 coins", and "1.6m" should be replaced with "1,600,000 coins". I absolutely disagree with Chicken above, "gp" (whilst quoted in RuneScape) should not normally be used in articles. They are called coins! Gp, k and m should all be replaced with figures in terms of coins (though they can be rounded to an appropriate number of significant figures), and the first use of the word "coins" as a currency should be wikilinked (as in this paragraph). In my opinion, this example should be put back into the style guide for clarity - is discussion really required? Leevclarke ^talk http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb290/leevclarke/RuneScape/Max%20Bulldog/Max_logo_mini.png http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb290/leevclarke/RuneScape/bulldog_puppy.png 05:25, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - I agree on not using K and M, but gp is much better in my opinion. Chicken7 ^>talk

Oppose Coins just looks to ....idk, silly? Stuffy? Each various term is used by at least one NPC so technically all are correct. Although I agree using "K" in articles is bad form.--Degenret01 05:41, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - Per Chicken and Degen. gp looks just fine to me. I'm a regular user and I approve this message.  TLUL ^{Talk - Contribs} 05:56, February 4, 2010 (UTC) 

Oppose - I don't know anyone in the game that uses 'coins'. Most people just say 'gp', so why wouldn't we? Oil4 ^Talk 06:41, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - per oli4burggraa. almost no one uses coins  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sentra246 (talk).

Support coins or gp - Leaving the Style Guide in its current form where nobody is sure which is the best term has no upsides for anybody. I get the feeling that the opposition really want to say "support Gp", not "oppose". Coins make just as much sense as gp to me, neither are bad. There is no chance of confusion over what is meant when you say them, unlike with gold. _{Evil Yanks} ^talk 07:06, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Per Yanks. Btw, 'gp' are referred as 'coins' in the Game Guide. Frede^Talk 07:30, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - We have to remember that not even Jagex seem to have a style guide when it comes to the gp/coins/gold naming scnario (npcs say all different things) so which one would we pick? -- Mercifull ^(Talk) 09:26, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Support coins - per Liquidhelium and Leevclarke.   az ^talk   15:55, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Per all supporters. http://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss279/jacobross5/sig1.pnghttp://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss279/jacobross5/sig2.pnghttp://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss279/jacobross5/sig3.png 16:03, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Support coins (or coin for one) - I believe we should endeavour to use the actual item name at all times, which in this case is coins.  @Gaz#7521 16:58, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Consitency is always appropriate with the exception being that if an NPC says "---- gp" or anything that isn't "coins/coin", it should be left as is as a qoute should never be corrected when taken word for word. Otherwise user made comments/edits on monetary value should be consistent in all areas. As well, I dislike it (as other users do) from the use if monetary acronyms. These and other values should remain away from articles. Template:Signatures/Bluesonic43 17:32, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Support - I think in this case it's probably good to have a standard and since the in game name is coins, lets just use that. Tollerach hates SoF 21:23, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Using acronyms in our articles does not seem very encyclopedic. "Coins" not only is the name in-game, but it also looks and sounds better than "gp."  Tien  21:51, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - I think it needs to be clear that a coin isn't necessarily an item, and should not be treated as one. It is a currency. Currencies have long official names, and acronyms. We use the long official name when talking/discussing the currency, so on the coins article, as an example. But then the acronym is used when stating an amount of money. In my honest opinion, using both of them in that context is A LOT more encyclopaedic than using just the word coins. Chicken7 ^>talk 04:50, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

Tokkul and trading sticks are both items and currency, so when stating an amount of tokkul or trading sticks would we say, "100 tkl" or "100 ts"? Speaking of acronyms, "gp" seems to be a player-derived term. Or did Jagex come up with it? If Jagex coined (no pun intended) it, then I might support the use of "gp," but I think the instances in which coins are referred to as "gp" in-game were just done by Jagex to add a personal touch to the game. I may be wrong, of course.  Tien  16:18, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

There is no common abbreviation for tokkul or trading sticks, so it wouldn't be wise as it may be confusing. Although "gp" is common and probably used more often than coins in NPC dialogues! I don't know the history, I'd presume it was a player derived term, made popular by Jagex's use of it. But I may be wrong too. Cheers, Chicken7 ^>talk 01:06, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Per Tien. Brux ^Talk 16:55, February 5, 2010 (UTC)
Comment - "GP" is a matter of pure convenience. That said, who wants to constantly type out "Dollars" or "Euros" (if that's even the full name? Euro-dollars?), when we can type $ or -->E<-- instead. Support for killing the "k" and "m" though, as my spreadsheets break out in a rash. 8-D TheLastWordSword 15:11, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

The full name of 'euro' is 'euro'. It's derived from Europe. It's not named after dollars. Oil4 ^Talk 22:42, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Coins it is; per all supporters. • NnK Oliver • ^(600613) _talk 04:11, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

Support - 'gp' sounds unoffical, it is not encyclopaedic, and 2.1m is far less accurate than 2145613 (or whatever).

1. REDIRECT User:Matt is Me/Signature 07:14, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - GP got invented when someone at Jagex got lazy and decided to use it instead of 'Coins'. Now tons of noobs can't bear to type out 3 extra letters and use GP. Anyone see the problem with this?--

Captain Sciz

Talk • Edits • Hiscores File:Runecrafter hat.png|link=

20:12, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

As somebody who played RS in the year it was released, I can tell you that you are absolutely, 100% wrong with your history. GP predates "coins" as the Runescape "standard" by years. Endasil

Comment - Runescape use GP so we should too, User:Supawilko/SkillSupawilko 09:29, February 14, 2010 (UTC)

Where does RuneScape officially use GP? Player slang does not count.

1. REDIRECT User:Matt is Me/Signature 17:55, February 14, 2010 (UTC)`

NPC dialogues, official announcements, even videos I think. Chicken7 ^>talk 05:37, February 15, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Though I agree with Degenret01, a standard should be set.   Zap0i ^Talk  01:17, February 15, 2010 (UTC)

Support - Per degen, Jack Spirall  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jack Spiral1 (talk). (?)

Oppose - Per opposition. Superplayer08^{Talk HS User:Superplayer08/Template:AdvLog} 18:45, February 15, 2010 (UTC)superplayer08

Comment - Gp is player-slang, and we are to keep that out of articles! We don't use 1337speak in articles, it's slang. We don't refer to items as DDS or D pl8 in articles, because they're player slang! --

Captain Sciz

Talk • Edits • Hiscores File:Runecrafter hat.png|link=

16:29, February 17, 2010 (UTC)

Not completely. Some NPCs and letters and stuff also use "gp". So it's not all thought up by players. Oil4 ^Talk 21:25, February 17, 2010 (UTC)

Neutral per all. I usually support using the in-game names, but in this case, GP is even sometimes used in RuneScape. User:C Teng/sig 16:52, February 17, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - There are much more important issues with langauge that should be prioritized, see the Style guide and its talk page for examples. Minimalism comes to mind as a common benchmark for efficiency, and therefore usability of this wikia's vast information banks. Unneccessary use of the word "you" or the term "the player" also comes to mind as more important than gp / coins Tortilliachp 17:31, February 17, 2010 (UTC)

Neutral - 200gp looks nice, but coins seem sensible...Youdead00 18:54, February 17, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose - even ingame sources call them gp in some instances, and K saves space when you're writing a long message, due to the one-line text restriction by JaGEx, the same applying for M. Alex1496 21:35, February 17, 2010 (UTC)

Support - "Coins" used uniformly around the wiki would look professional, yes. I wouldn't want to be the random guy strolling around the wiki and being all "wut iz dis gpz??".  Panjy16 ★ 22:04, February 17, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Just came across this discussion and wanted to give my 0.02gp. This is not a new debate, and arguing that one is "more official" than another is beating a dead horse. Both have been used by Jagex in enough contexts that they are both unquestionably "official" names for the same thing. If you want to use one over the other consistently, argue for it from a standpoint of style and consistency, but stop embarrassing yourselves by trying to rewrite history. I was there. Endasil 21:20, February 19, 2010 (UTC)

AMG, Hi Endasil! Also, I agree that none of them are more official than the other. "Coins" is the name of the item, not necessarily the name of the currency. Chicken7 ^>talk 01:18, February 20, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, I acknowledge that fact that Jagex has used both. And I know that this is not a new discussion. However, I think we should establish some sort of ground ruling so that there is limited variations. --

Captain Sciz

Talk • Edits • Hiscores File:Runecrafter hat.png|link=

17:19, February 24, 2010 (UTC)

Strong Support - This would make the wiki look far more proffesional, just because it's refrered to sproatically in game, doesn't mean that we have to do the same here. Farxodor File:Magic-cape-(t)-inv.png 04:26, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - When referring to a specific amount, such as the "200gp" example, "gp" makes sense, though "coins" also works. Virtually all other contexts, however, would be better as "coins" or "money", depending on if it's referring to the specific currency or just currency in general. As for using "K" and "M" in the amounts, that definitely needs to stop. --MarkGyver 21:22, March 10, 2010 (UTC)

Concluding

Obviously, both sides have shown great arguments, and I acknowledge that both(all?) are official and used by Jagex. However, I think we should standarise the format. I know Jagex uses all of them, but I think we should just go with Coins. Anyone disagree? --

Captain Sciz

Talk • Edits • Hiscores File:Runecrafter hat.png|link=

18:12, March 11, 2010 (UTC)

Plenty of people do - see above.  :-p Leevclarke ^talk http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb290/leevclarke/RuneScape/Max%20Bulldog/Max_logo_mini.png http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb290/leevclarke/RuneScape/bulldog_puppy.png 18:44, March 11, 2010 (UTC)

Coins and 200gp - I think that using coins can never be incorrect, but saying "gp" for an amount would be fine too. Not "Bring some gp with you", but "This item costs 300gp". You can't argue that we shouldn't use any short forms, ever. Wikipedia frequently uses "$200", and clarifies which type of dollar. Pounds have their own symbol (not on my keyboard) which need no clarification, just as gp needs no clarification. I doubt if you will ever see Wikipedia using "Bring some $ with you", though. Just my 2gp overused joke (and don't go pointing to RS:NOT, you understand my point just fine). I'm a regular user and I approve this message.  TLUL ^{Talk - Contribs} 19:07, March 11, 2010 (UTC) 

Coins for sentences, gp for quantities - As said by tLUL above. Use coins in sentences (You will need a lot of coins) and gp in quantities (You will need 1000gp). But do not use K or M (You will need 1K). Cheers, Chicken7 ^>talk 04:43, March 12, 2010 (UTC)

Support Chicken and tLUL's suggestions - Yes, coins for sentences and gp for quantities. Everything else is unprofessional and should be rewritten on sight. ~  Sentry Telos ^Talk  07:17, March 12, 2010 (UTC)

Support Chicken and tLUL's suggestions - Per Telos. Oil4 ^Talk 09:16, March 12, 2010 (UTC)

Oppose all changes - This issue has come up before, and there is really no need to change any thing in terms of style. Both "coins" and "gp" are used by Jagex. While the item's official name is "coin", there are Jagex references to gp dating back to RuneScape Classic. The use of "gp" is no more "unproffesional" [sic] than the use of US$ (instead of "United States dollars") in Wikipedia's Bill Gates article, which is perfectly understandable and has in fact been recognized as a good article. Other conventional abbreviations are used in that article as well.

Given that both Jagex and the community use the two terms interchangably, there is no need to mandate the use of one over the other. Both terms are correct, and they are synonymous in every way. If the reader has played RuneScape before, chances are they'll understand the terms. If not, they are not far from the gp article or the player dictionary. Both of these articles clearly define the term.

Consistency in articles should not extend to restrictive vocabulary. These proposed changes are no more useful than requiring articles to use "bar" instead of "tavern" or "pub" (or vice versa). I suggest that we follow a KISS principle and stop wasting the contributors' time with this trivial issue. Changing the style guide will not improve the wiki in any way, and it will use up valuable resources that should be put towards creating content or fixing articles. Dtm142 03:08, March 13, 2010 (UTC)

I would like to add to Dtm's post: while both terms may be used interchangeably in the wiki, consistency should be observed within the article. You cannot have one term in the beginning of the article, and another term in the next paragraph! In terms of style, that is pretty bad, IMO. User:Azliq7 11:02, March 13, 2010 (UTC)

That's correct, we don't want two different terms being used everywhere. But, we aren't going to use gp in sentences, like "A bucket costs a few gp". We're proposing 1 term for quantities, and 1 for sentences, as said above. This moreover is easier for users, really, as it is easier to tell when the article is referring to a specific quantity or the currency in general. Chicken7 ^>talk 11:40, March 13, 2010 (UTC)

I must disagree. It is often acceptable, or even desirable, to use two or more synonyms in a single piece of writing. This breaks up monotony in the article. Granted, one synonym might be preferable to another in a given context. "A bucket costs a few coins", "A bucket costs a few gold pieces", and "A bucket costs a small amount of money" are all better than "A bucket costs a few gp". Similarly, "A bucket weighs a few kilograms" would be better than "A bucket weighs a few kg".

However, "A bucket costs 1gp" and "A bucket costs 1 coin" are both correct and make sense in context. There is no point in favouring one over the other across the entire site. Doing so would be a textbook example of instruction creep, not a potential improvement to the wiki. Dtm142 18:30, March 13, 2010 (UTC)

I do not agree with Dtm, but he does have a good point, and I think that would be a good result for this forum. We are a community, so we do not need that many guidelines and rules. We need them for things like Dragon pickaxe instead of D pik, mainly because that is the official spelling. However, in this case, both coins and gp can be considered "official", since they are both used by Jagex. So, maintaining the status quo seems like a pretty good option to me. --Liquid^Talk 20:57, March 13, 2010 (UTC)

So Dtm, what you approve of is using coins in sentences, but coins and gp for quantities. Although I think it'd be better to use just gp for quantities, I wouldn't oppose that. Chicken7 ^>talk 21:37, March 13, 2010 (UTC)

Personally, I dont know what the fuss is about. Coins and gp are both used by Jagex. They are both acceptable. No need to make such an argument over that. I think that for smaller quantities (two coins, such as in two bucks or two dollars) coins are ok, whereas in larger ones (such as 200,000gp) gp is better. 4ndrepd ^Talk_Contribs^{Jump to the God Wars II!} 22:39, March 15, 2010 (UTC)