RuneScape Wiki
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== To summarise... ==
== To summarise... ==
Words and images have no business concerned with the matter of equality, '''ONLY ACTIONS DO!'''. Keep the crown. Also, can someone please provide me a link to Dengen's user page? I would like to have a ''little'' chat with him. {{Signatures/Fruit.Smoothie}} 01:47, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
Words and images have no business concerned with the matter of equality, '''ONLY ACTIONS DO!''' Keep the crown. Also, can someone please provide me a link to Dengen's user page? I would like to have a ''little'' chat with him. {{Signatures/Fruit.Smoothie}} 01:47, January 9, 2010 (UTC)

Revision as of 01:48, 9 January 2010

Forums: Yew Grove > Crowns and AEAE

Recently the crown images that were used to identify administrators, bureaucrats, or users with rollback were deleted because they violated AEAE. I'm curious as to whether this was really necessary. To me, crowns were simply a means of identifying what tools a user had, similar to hilited usernames. I'm also having a hard time applying AEAE to this situation. Administrators may be equal to other users in how their opinions or edits are valued, but they are simply not equal to other users in their ability to protect, delete, block, ect. I think that we need to truly nail down how administrators fit into AEAE, and also make a decision regarding images/userboxes that distinguish one user from another.

So, at this point, I guess I'm not proposing something as much I'm trying to start a discussion regarding how AEAE should be dealt with. I could be misinterpreting AEAE, so input on this matter would be greatly appreciated. --Aburnett(Talk) 19:51, January 8, 2010 (UTC)

EDIT: Also, I understand that bots aren't users, but they do still have a crown. Why? --Aburnett(Talk) 19:53, January 8, 2010 (UTC)


The deletion of the crown images was silliness, in my honest opinion. While we are all equal as editors, Sysops do have special tools, and you can't get around that. The only part of it that I can see breaking AEAE at any point would be the fact that they are crowns, and they are only crowns because they look similar to the pmod/jmod crowns in the game this wiki is about. We already know we are all equal, the crowns are irrelevant. User:Stelercus/Signature 19:57, January 8, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - If a crown violates AEAE, a hilited name also does. FredeTalk 20:15, January 8, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - I don't understand why these were deleted though, If they were violating the policy, why were they not deleted earlier? Liam - Beta Tester (talk) 20:27, January 8, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - I think that the small crowns, which are often used in sigs, should stay deleted, because they can be misleading for newcomers. In RS, moderators have 'power', and thus have a crown next to their name. Jmods are pretty much the bosses of the game.

However, on this wiki, we have bureaucrats and administrators and stuff with 'tools'. If they have a crown next to their name, newcomers will automatically assume that they are moderators and have power, because in RS, mods also have crowns. This makes RS:AEAE very confusing for them, and can lead to awkward situations.
Also, some people have used these crowns to brag about what they call their "rights" on this Wiki, which is ridicule, because all editors are equal.

However, the big crowns are only used in userboxes. These userboxes are not used for bragging, but for general information - 'I am a sysop. I have administrator tools.' That tells people that they could ask that person to do something that requires admin tools, but it is less confusing for newcomers and it is not a way of bragging. Ancient talisman.png Oil4 Talk 21:26, January 8, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - (Edit Conflict) Thanks for creating this forum. Degen's idea that they represent royalty are absurd. If they're a violation of AEAE, then hilites are, "This user is X" templates are, and simply saying "I am an administrator/bureaucrat" is, too. 21:29, January 8, 2010 (UTC)

It's not absurd. He has a point. I think that maybe using crowns isn't really such a good idea - but what icon should be used instead? Ancient talisman.png Oil4 Talk 21:50, January 8, 2010 (UTC)
I'd like to see some images that actually represent rollback/admin/'crat be used rather than a crown - e.g. a bucket with the red R on it for rollback, a broom with green A, etc. Images from RS if possible. Weird gloop.png @Gaz#7521 22:05, January 8, 2010 (UTC)
A bukkit? OMG! --Iiii I I I 22:08, January 8, 2010 (UTC)
Only the believers deserve bukkits. HAIL BUKKIT! UXLKIBucket detail.pngrwojy 22:12, January 8, 2010 (UTC)
SHUVELS> BUKKITS Also, the crowns are based off of images from RS (P/J-mod crowns). That's why they were made like that in the first place.

Support re-addition of crowns - Who's the idiot who wanted to remove the crown icons in the first place? Fruit.Smoothie 23:33, January 8, 2010 (UTC)

That was Dengen and made over 3000 wanted pages :( Twig Talk 23:36, January 8, 2010 (UTC)

Support re-addition of crowns and re-write of AEAE - I think this is ridiculous. AEAE does not make sense in the fact that all editors are equal. It is way to general in saying that all editors are perfectly equal and no editors have power over another. That is true, in ways, but HOW is it equal if I have the power to delete so-and-so, but a new editor who just joined doesn't? That is not equal. We might be equal in the fact that all of our opinions are equal and we all have the same rights and the same rules to follow, but when it comes to privileges and tools, we are not equal. You can't just simply label everything on this wiki to be equal, 'cause it's not.

Another thing, WHAT is so wrong with crowns? Is it the way they're shaped or the way they light up the screen's pixels that make them go against AEAE? If I painted an A on a bucket and a crown, and placed one in this userbox, and one in this userbox, is there a difference in their meaning? I sure as hell don't think so, saying "ohh, well a crown means royalty and power and a bucket means nothing" isn't the true meaning of something. That's an opinion. Deletion summaries shouldn't be based on opinions, they should be based on if and how the subject goes against our policies, and you can't delete something over an unclear policy. For suggestions on how to make AEAE clearer, well, read the above paragraph.

My two cents, User:Lil diriz 77/Signatures 00:01, January 9, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Wouldn't the simple solution to the problem to be to pick another object that doesn't have any relation at all to royalty and gods chosen representive on Earth and all that stuff. The object doesn't have to be a crown that bares an "A" to show that it is an admin. We could get that bucket of water photo, use paint to crudely draw an "A" on it and it would be able to take the place of the crown with no real downsides. There is probably something better to use then a bucket however Lol Unicorn horn dust.png Evil Yanks talk 00:13, January 9, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - I just don't see why this is such a problem in the first place. It's not, really. Like I said, Degen's assumption that crowns = royalty/editors-not-being-equal is his opinion. What if I think crowns mean poverty and/or death? It's not set in stone what anything means, society and people just apply meanings to them that we think fit. Obviously, Degen thinks the meaning of royalty/editors-not-being-equal fits nicely with crowns. I however, think crowns mean poverty and death. Who's gonna stop me? User:Lil diriz 77/Signatures 00:23, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
3 edit conflicts in a row! This is the first sentence that you get when you type "crown" into wikipedia: "A crown is a term (crown (anatomy)) referring to a part of the head or of a hat, or to a head ornament or type of headgear for the highest rank in a socio-political hierarchy." Pretend that you are watching a show, any show, and you see someone who is wearing a crown. Your first though would be that "Ooh, he is a king, and therefore he is in charge of making decisions." It is the same with Jagex being represented by golden crowns in-game and on the forums; it is to show to players that don't know what it means that they are more then just an ordinary user. I personally don't mind if the crowns are removed or not (it doesn't seem like that much of a problem) but I don't see why we have to go back to crowns when there is an obvious stigma attached. Unicorn horn dust.png Evil Yanks talk 00:47, January 9, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - I would suggest using whatever the default wikia uses, I think wikipedia also uses crowns so yeah I'd support using the status quo as such ;) Veritas vos Liberabit 00:33, January 9, 2010 (UTC)

Suggestion - Just so each editor doesn't feel inferior in regards to admins

having crowns, how about we shrink the image for the Varrock cleaner (as shown to the right) down to fit inside the userboxes and put a crudely drawn "A" on his chest to symbolize the housekeeping/maintenance tasks that admins normally do on a day-to-day basis. This would also to a stop to bragging rights, as I doubt most people would brag about having a userbox with a cleaner in it. That's my two cents on the matter.

  1. REDIRECT User:N7 Elite/Signature 00:35, January 9, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - I have to agree that deleting the crowns was not really necessary. Technically, not all editors can be equal anyway because administrators/bureaucrats do have access to more tools than normal editors.

According to RS:AEAE: Administrators and bureaucrats are trusted members of the wiki community who are recognised for reliable edits and fairness in dealing with discussions or arguments. This does not give them authority over other players in overruling decisions; all major decisions of this kind (such as requesting adminship) must be made by the community, and not by an individual

How does a picture of a crown give you authority over anything? It's just a symbol representing your status as an editor. New wikians won't necessarily assume that you are some kind of leader or something because you have a crown in your signature (or elsewhere). Once they read RS:AEAE, then they'll know that administrators/bureaucrats are not authoritative figures.  Tien  00:36, January 9, 2010 (UTC)

Said wonderfully. User:Lil diriz 77/Signatures 00:39, January 9, 2010 (UTC)

Comment - Sorry for the double comment, I just needed to add a point. If an icon is changed, the new icon will merely represent authority like the crown did. For example if the crown was replaced with a chisel, the chisel would become associated with "sysop or crat" status, therefore it'd become another status symbol of authority.

Just image for example that all Ferrari sports cars are redesigned to look very very ugly indeed. After a while, very very ugly cars would make people think of Ferrari sports cars.

In the same way that by changed the crown to say a bucket, the bucket would connotate the authority, extra powers and heightened respect that many administrators receive, and so the argument would be back to square one.

Veritas vos Liberabit 00:42, January 9, 2010 (UTC)

To summarise...

Words and images have no business concerned with the matter of equality, ONLY ACTIONS DO! Keep the crown. Also, can someone please provide me a link to Dengen's user page? I would like to have a little chat with him. Fruit.Smoothie 01:47, January 9, 2010 (UTC)