Forum:Dealing with audio

Forums: Yew Grove > Dealing with audio

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This thread was archived on 19 July 2017 by Liquidhelium.

So I and RS Orchestra have been working together regarding audio in cache, even if our main motive was to extract MIDI and instruments, we ended pretty much discovering how to extract audio (music and sound effects). During this I think I found some tings that could greatly benefit RS Wiki, but I'll stay neutral on my point of view.

Music navboxes

I think we should have a real navbox that link to music track, kind of like we do with the Solomon's General Store, however I think that they would need to be split in categories within the navbox.

(a) Follow the same patern and split music track in categories (i.e Morytania, Tirannwn, Desert)
(b) Same as above but with quest series/locations
(c) Leave as it.

Discussion

C(omment) - As much as I would love to make a music tracks navbox, that is simply not going to happen due to the large number of music tracks, almost 1200, and still increasing. Potentially we could create several navboxes per region, kinda like {{Prifddinas other}} already has the music tracks for Prifddinas. But every relevant piece of content already has the music tracks that belong to it in that content's navbox, e.g. {{Plague's End}} already has the music tracks that feature in Plague's End. And I have plans for reworking {{Solomon's General Store}}, it's just too big imo. So essentially, the status quo is fine (option C). Salix of Prifddinas ^(Talk) 15:16, July 12, 2017 (UTC)

C - Per Salix https://i.imgur.com/xHR7zpA.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/6encXAo.png 15:41, July 12, 2017 (UTC)

C - There are simply too many. I would like to categorise music tracks by style, though (pirate, Feldip, desert, ...), but it doesn't seem viable. Fsw e1 16:49, July 12, 2017 (UTC)

Instruments

Like I mentionned earlier before RS3, runescape used Musical Instrument Digital Interfaces, since late 2011, they use "special" MIDIs that have only a few notes to play "instruments" wich are in reality recorded audio. For normal MIDIs we can just open them in a DAW (Digital Audio Workshop) and see wich instruments they use. So it would be logic to use them as they (probably their rework too) use it however, some MIDIs seem too use special midi feature such as custom MIDI controller and LSB banks for special instruments (usually used in Dungeoneering tracks) how we should be dealing with these?:

(a) Just mention that they are custom channels.
(b) Don't mention it at all.
(c) Tell the special channel/feature on the article

Discussion

B - Is it really worth mentioning? Could be mentioned as a trivia on Music instead probably. Salix of Prifddinas ^(Talk) 15:17, July 12, 2017 (UTC)

B - Per Salix https://i.imgur.com/xHR7zpA.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/6encXAo.png 15:41, July 12, 2017 (UTC)

B - Too technical; if we can identify the instruments, no matter how their recording was used, that ought to suffice. Fsw e1 16:49, July 12, 2017 (UTC)

Full length tracks

Per Mod Ash statement for OSRS wiki, It seems like Jagex (also according to their previous non-existent actions) don't have a problem with full length music track regardless of the platform. However we would need to revise our Fair Use policy. Even if we chose to do, you probably know that ~~Wikia~~ FANDOM server only allow OGG Vorbis, but that's not a problem as they are natively in that format in cache and are also aviable here for download.

(a) Yes
(b) No

Discussion

A - If it's okay with Jagex, then it's fine imo if the Fair Use policy is also updated as well to reflect this. Salix of Prifddinas ^(Talk) 15:17, July 12, 2017 (UTC)

A - As long as we, like we do with news posts etc, add a license template to say that the track is copyrighted by Jagex. https://i.imgur.com/xHR7zpA.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/6encXAo.png 15:41, July 12, 2017 (UTC)

A - Yay.

A - SoundCloud has been laying off workers and closing offices rapidly lately.^[1][2] Unless they can find someway to substantially levy their debts,^[3] the wiki should consider hosting audio files on-site. — Heaven Sent (talk) 00:07, July 17, 2017 (UTC)

Voices

You all probably remember that back in the day, Jagex had enough money to have voice acting in-game, since we can extract them from the cache, would you want to use them on transcript pages?

(a) Yes
(b) No
(c) Only sometimes on articles, like we do now.

Discussion

B - No, there's no need to put them on the transcript pages. But on the (quest) articles themselves is okay, like we do now. Salix of Prifddinas ^(Talk) 15:20, July 12, 2017 (UTC)

B - Transcript pages should just be for transcripts. https://i.imgur.com/xHR7zpA.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/6encXAo.png 15:41, July 12, 2017 (UTC)

C - Every voiced NPC should ideally have at least one fragment of dialogue on their page, preferably with the voice actor's name, if known, but having entire transcripts voiced goes too far, not to mention the files would be a mess. Fsw e1 16:49, July 12, 2017 (UTC)

Unused music

RS Orchestra found some music tracks that are seemingly not used in-game, since they aren't named what we should do with them? I don't think there is enough for a whole article.

(a) Try to find the subject they were intented to be for and put it in trivia.
(b) Nothing.

Discussion

A - It could always be mentioned as a trivia somewhere. And otherwise as a seperate section on music. Salix of Prifddinas ^(Talk) 15:21, July 12, 2017 (UTC)

A - Use common sense https://i.imgur.com/xHR7zpA.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/6encXAo.png 15:41, July 12, 2017 (UTC)

A - UCS. Fsw e1 16:49, July 12, 2017 (UTC)

Historical music tracks/jingles

Some music track and jingles got changed over time, such as Bird of Prey, should we includes these changes in their respectives articles? Note: this dosen't include reworked normal midi songs.

(a) Only a mention.
(b) Mention with sample (or full track regarding the outcome).
(c) Make an historical music page with sample).
(d) Don't mention it at all.

For jingles:

(1) Make a page for historical music track with samples
(2) Nothing.

Discussion

A/2 - Mentioning it as a trivia on the individual music track pages is okay. Isn't really necessary for jingles since they don't have seperate pages. Salix of Prifddinas ^(Talk) 15:23, July 12, 2017 (UTC)

A/2 - Per Salix https://i.imgur.com/xHR7zpA.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/6encXAo.png 15:41, July 12, 2017 (UTC)

B/2 - Reworked music tracks are actually really interesting. I see no reason why we shouldn't also upload recordings of previous versions of the music track, if they are available, as more often than not there are very noticeable differences. We could also create a "Graphical updates/Music" type of thing, if people like that.

Broadly speaking, there would ideally be two/three recordings of each music track: pre-2007 audio update, post-that, and post-RS3 rework; all only if applicable. There are a few exceptions, for instance Castlewars (now Castle Wars) was updated in 2010, and Duel Arena has had some changes since its 2012 update, and of course there's Newbie Melody (original), but overall, those three are the main phases. I would definitely support uploading a (full, but going by previous comments we're going to change policy to allow that) recording of each version of a music track that has existed, if only for historical purposes. Ditto for unlisted music tracks, as some get updated (BA tutorial music, Osman/Leela cutscene).

Jingles are iffier, since they don't have their own articles. One option is to likewise have each version of a jingle that has existed on the respective page but that might be too cluttery. So either we make articles for jingles and treat them as music tracks (which seems a rather unsightly idea), or we just keep the most recent version of the jingle, with the old ones available in file history. Alternatively, should we decide to create a GU-style article for music, we would of course incorporate jingles as well. Fsw e1 16:49, July 12, 2017 (UTC)

Other discussions

http://i.imgur.com/x5sQGus.png ᚼ 𝕷𝖔𝖗𝖉 𝕸𝖆𝖓𝖕𝖆𝖎𝖓𝖙 ᚼ (t)(c) 14:53, July 12, 2017 (UTC)

"AU"

As I mentioned, it might be an idea to create a GU-style page, Audio updates or summat, for music. It would include (unlisted) music tracks and jingles. And perhaps voices, though these would be very few and far between, as the only voices that got changed I can recall are the baby troll (for the worse!!), Azzanadra, Sliske and Wahisietel. Personally, I would support introducing such a page. Fsw e1 16:49, July 12, 2017 (UTC)

Granularity

We might need to adjust some granularity policies for audio files in general. Assuming the thread's consensus keeps heading in the same direction (an asterisk meaning 'dependent on thread outcome'), I propose the following;

Split all audio policies off from RS:IMG
Encourage uploading full* HQ recordings, either from cache or from the game itself, of every (unlisted) music track. Use {{non-free audio}}.
Ditto for jingles
* Ditto for any and all historical versions of both music tracks and jingles. Use {{historical image}} or a new, audio-specific equivalent.
Allow voiced NPCs/monsters to have fragments of their voice, of reasonable length, on their page as a sample; UCS to determine the content. Bosses that have a number of voiced lines in battle (e.g. Nomad, Vanstrom, Damis) can have them all uploaded, if within reason. Use {{voice license}}.
Discourage uploading full transcripts of quests and other voiced content.
Encourage lyrics from music tracks that have them to be transcribed, including pirate shanties.
Samples of sound effects/ambience can be uploaded if particularly interesting or significant, otherwise we probably shouldn't have a database for all possible sound effects. Apply UCS.

Discuss. We should call it the Audio Policy Extraordinaire (RS:APE). Fsw e1 16:49, July 12, 2017 (UTC)

Closed - Going through the sections:

Music navboxes will be left as is.
MIDI instruments will not be mentioned.
Full length tracks can be uploaded.
Voice acting files will will not be included in transcript pages (but snippets can be included on the relevant quest/NPC/whatever main pages if desired).
Unused music tracks can be mentioned in trivia sections.
Original versions of reworked tracks can be mentioned in trivia. No one's pointed out any good reasons to not have historical versions catalogued somewhere, so they can be uploaded and referenced to somewhere that makes it clear it's not the current version. Jingles should be left alone.

Since it's obvious that people are mostly disinterested in this subject (and who can blame them, it sounds totally boring... I'll show myself out ) most of this thread should be treated as a guideline. If it turns out in the process of working on these audio files that some other route is clearly better be bold and just do it. I don't think a new policy is necessary at this time (especially given the lack of discussion on it) but again, that can be left to the people who are working on the audio files. --Liquid^Talk 22:11, July 19, 2017 (UTC)