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This thread was archived on 19 April 2009 by Dtm142.

As some of you may know, Jagex have expressed a desire to get in contact with certain fansites here. They state that they have already contacted some, and as we are, in my humble opinion, one of the bigger and better ones, there has been some debate as to why they haven't been in contact with us already. Is it just that they haven't gotten around to it yet? I have another suggestion as to why this may be so.

If you look at their post, they seem to have been a bit cagey on what they are actually doing with these fansites, and seem to want to keep it that way. The trouble with this site is that not only is there no one defined 'owner' for them to speak to, as we are a community, but we are also perhaps far too open for them, and the details of what they are doing with these fansites would be available for everyone to see.

If this is the case, and I'm not saying that it is for sure, then I have a suggestion that unfortunately goes somwehat against the open spirit of the wiki. We put forward someone to act as a liason with Jagex. This would serve two purposes. Firstly to keep the level of secrecy that Jagex require (the liason would not make public the nature of the discusions), and secondly, for the liason to assess whether the direct interaction with Jagex is something that the Wiki could work with.

I'm really not happy with the idea myself, as I like to keep things open, but it may be the only way that Jagex would work with us. Your thoughts please. Sysop crown Hurston (T # C) 10:39, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Support - Perhaps this is the only way this can work. I have been on all forums regarding the contact between fansites and am often contributing to these discussions or reading up on all posts made. I've had 1 or two questions answered about the contact with fansites from Jagex Mods but I still have no defined answer as to how they would contact us. I wish they would, as I think we can offer much to partner with them. The question I have also asked in the forums is that this site is not individually owned except by Wikia and that perhaps they have made an attempt to contact Wikia in regards to this but they have refused partnership for some unknown and censored reason. Regardless, if we are to decide a liason, how would we notify Jagex officially that they are our contact person. Unless they have been monitoring our discussion and will personally see the consensus of our liason, I think most contributions in regards to notifying them of this might have some difficulty. I will keep up on the forums as I have daily to see if any changes occur, but I know that users outside of the wiki have been recommending us, so lets keep our fingers crossed. 12:47, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
They do have a thread for suggesting fansites, we could just point them in the direction of the yew grove discussion there. Sysop crown Hurston (T # C) 12:59, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
Well, yes. We can do that, but in all aspects would they trust this anyways? I mean, I'm down for it 100% 15:04, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
Entirely up to them I suppose. All we can do is try. Sysop crown Hurston (T # C) 15:07, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Slight support - I'm of the opinion they haven't gotten around to us yet - the thread's only been up for just over 2 weeks. Though I see what you're saying, and a designated liason won't hurt. I'd give it a bit of time in case they come to us without a liason present. After that time (maybe a further two weeks), we should try and inform them - a few of us post on the suggest a fansite thread with a link to this discussion, perhaps. Weird gloop @Gaz#7521 16:27, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Comment - We already have the RuneScape:Contact us page, which lists the active bureaucrats in case our assistance is needed. I would suggest linking to it throughout the site so that it is easy accessible to Jagex staff members that may visit our site. I do not currently feel the need to designate an official liason, as we already have means for them to contact us if necessary. As said earlier, it takes time for them to contact us. I would suggest waiting a few months before worrying about it. Appointing a liason isn't necessarily a bad idea (other fansites have chosen users to be part of Jagex's Facebook for example), but I don't think that now is the time to worry about that. Dtm142 18:41, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

I never noticed that! Perhaps that will do. Sysop crown Hurston (T # C) 19:29, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Thinking about it, what would we like to see from a partnership with Jagex? I know a lot of people want to know what is happening in the future, but I think the strength of the wiki is all the obscure lore. I'd like to see a page for lore related questions that we could pass on to Jagex who could perhaps answer some of them. What would everyone else like to see? Sysop crown Hurston (T # C) 19:32, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Ah, another confusing and clandestine post from Jagex about possibly getting some fansites involved in some ambiguous manner. What does it mean? Well I for one wouldn't worry too much about it. However, if we wanted to contact Jagex on our own, to reach out to them first, I'd suggest it be one of the active crats. Point them to the RuneScape:Contact us page is a good idea and probably easier for them to handle than Yew Grove. My guess is that Jagex would respond better to a single or small group of contact people. I think the crats or some interested admin would look good to Jagex for our "official" liason. Any volunteers? Air rune Tollerach hates SoF Fire rune 22:40, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

If we had a vote, I'd pick Dragon. He's a bureaucrat and a Player Moderator, so he's already trusted by Jagex. That might help the process along. :) Dragon helmChiafriend12Granite body (old)I have 12 friends. 23:40, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
Idk Chia aren't you in Jagex's bad graces after leaking that PMod pic to us? lol, jk. Air rune Tollerach hates SoF Fire rune 00:44, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
*cough* It was actually a screenshot from the upcoming game, Grand Theft Auto: Gielinor! I thought you'd notice. ;) Dragon helmChiafriend12Granite body (old)I have 12 friends. 02:10, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
I would be willing to volunteer as a liason for our site. Dtm142 00:36, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Support and comment - I support this thing, but I was wondering, if we get more noticed, won't there be more vandalism? Not all the runescape players are mature and since anyone can edit this, those types of players might be vandalizing this to ruin the website or so.Santa hat Powers38 おはようヾ(´・ω・`) 23:44, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Support/comment - I also support it, and to the comment about more vandalism, that might mean we will need more people as rollback users to help combat the vandals. But, I feel that we will be fine, with many admins on and rollback users browsing through the recent changes to spot vandalism. ~MuzTalk 00:10, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
As Jagex is a team based company I don't think we should just limit ourselves to one liason. Perhaps like them we can create a team based group that can meet with Jagex in such an event and rather then have one user incorportated into the meet or discussion we can have perhaps 3 users involved. This would perhaps rid any bias any one user may have and would allow for the opinions of these three rather to speak on behalf of the community rather then just the one. For example: DTM is different from Dragon who is different from Azaz who is different from Vimes, etc... They all have their different beliefs and they all have different opinions but they share one thing in common still and that is that we trust them. I think limiting it to the decision on one though would not be a representative as we would think. Perhaps organization something along the lines of a board of directors? A Crat, A Sysop and perhaps another Crat or Sysop or even a trusted none admin? Just an idea. 02:25, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Oppose For my part, I don't think we should enter into this kind of relationship with Jagex at all, even if they do approach us. Consider how important it is that we maintain a neutral point of view, especially with regard to Jagex controversies. This is a really important aspect to the information we provide, and I think it could become awkward if we're in Jagex's pockets. Some of our users have Category:Players who dislike Jagex|declared themselves to dislike Jagex, and they should be free to have this opinion without the pressure of worrying whether it's going to affect the company's relationship with our wiki. We've enjoyed healthy growth as a fan site all this time with being "endorsed" by Jagex, and I don't think the potential benefits we might gain are big enough to compromise what we have now. Leevclarke talk Max_logo_mini.png bulldog_puppy.png 02:36, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Jagex have stated (further down in their post) that they have no wish to influence the working of the fansites. The job of the liason would be to ascertain whether working with Jagex would be a good thing, we don't need to go ahead with it if we don't like what we hear. Sysop crown Hurston (T # C) 08:20, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

EXTREME OPPOSE - Let them contact who they want, if what we are doesn't suit them then too bad for them. This is, (sorry Hurston cuz I like you the person, just not this idea) one of the most terrible horrible things that could happen to the wiki. It would be against our primary principles, not just against a minor thing we some times give a passing nod to. It sounds like a good idea for some fan sites. Not a wiki. I am terrified that people may support this.--Degenret01 04:15, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Oppose - I have to agree with Leevclarke and Degenret. I think the wiki is fine the way it is and we don't need a 'liason'. Jagex can approach us if they wish, or they may leave us alone. This violates RS:AEAE to the extreme (keeping the discussion secret) and many users do not want to have a partnership with Jagex in the first place. ~ Fire Surge icon Sentry Telos Talk  07:00, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Oppose - Like Max mentioned, I don't see how we could benefit from this. We are a unique site. Let's keep it that way.  Tien  15:46, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Oppose Oppose Liason, Support Contact - Per Leevclarke (Not to his fullest extent though). But also, why would we need a liason? While we remain (to my knowledge) uncontacted by Jagex, Jagex has already contacted Tip.it and RuneHQ awhile back (February or mid-March) and although they cannot freely edit, we can. But the spirit or the Wiki and all Wiki's is knowledge, saying things along the lines of more immature people is only the norm, but we are a base of knowledge (like most other fansites). On the same token, Jagex may only see this Wiki as anyother wiki, a Knowledge Base, but I cannot vouch for that. And what if we aren't contacted? They have a thread dedicated to reaching out to fansites, although your message will be automatically hidden till a Jagex Mod approves it (which would probably never happen to unhide it). In the end, if Jagex were to contact the RuneScape Wiki, they would either inquire our 'Crats, Wikia Staff (i.e. Sannse), or maybe (at a slim chance) the entire Wiki. Ryan PM 20:08, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Election?

Hi, guys! Since I see that people are proposing people and what-not for the "Messenger". I'm asking whatever admin/'crat reading this wether we could hole an election for this kinda thing. It would be in the RfB form, meaning you would need 80% percent to succeed. Does anyone want this process to be used? Since, everyone has a voice I think it's fair for everyone to vote for who they trust. ço¬Ø

(P.S. I'm sorry if I'm not making sense, I'm really sleepy, and I woke up at 5:37 p.m. today....)

I don't think we are in this stage yet. 02:25, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
We are a community. If Jagex wants to contact us, they will need to contact us as a community. Unless they're doing something illegal, I don't really see any need for secrecy. Per RS:AEAE, We can't really have one person represent us all... or two... or three... Community is a community. Barrelchest anchorDoucher4000******r4000Raw monkfish 17:01, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
AEAE is such a joke in this case. Does it violate AEAE that doug chose to let azaz know about the wikia blog event on his talk page first instead of mine? Putting someone in charge of making contact with Jagex would probably make it easier for us to be actually recognized. In fact, I bet one of the first things Jagex did was scan the wiki once and not know where to proceed so they just ignored it. And last, this whole "they have to do it our way by our rules" attitude is ridiculous, for years now Jagex has refused to recognize any fan sites and that has severely crippled every fan community in the game. Now they choose to do so and you want to make it as difficult as possible for us to get that recognition. Cap and gogglesTEbuddy 17:51, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
Please assume good faith Tebuddy. Nobody here wants to make it as "difficult as possible" for Jagex to recognize us. We all want the same thing: Creating the best possible RuneScape fansite while keeping in the spirit of a wiki. As seen above, some editors have expressed concern about an affiliation with Jagex, and others do not want to break our fundamental policies in order to please them. Dtm142 18:04, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
Please don't link me to a policy that clearly was not written with the current circumstance in mind. We are all voicing our opinions here, and to take degens words in good faith and condemn mine as not is clearly not appropriate. Cap and gogglesTEbuddy 20:07, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

I think this discussion might be getting heated. I think a big reason is because all we can do is speculate what Jagex is up to. They are being secretive. Who knows why? Who knows how they are contacting the fansites? Who knows what the think of RSW? I, for one, don't care. I'm not going to try to guess what Jagex is thinking. And I'm not going to worry too much about having or not having a liason contact them. We are a wiki, we are open, we are welcoming, and I think the community is going make sure those values stay in place. Air rune Tollerach hates SoF Fire rune 22:41, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

I agree with TEBuddy. AGF is being thrown around too much, just because somebody disagrees with DTM. Grow up dude, we can have whatever opinions we want. If it doesn't suit you, don't try to shove a policy down our throat. Karlis (talk) (contribs)

22:44, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
Tebuddy's comments implied that we are deliberately trying to make it difficult for Jagex to contact us, which is not the case. The editors who are against this are opposing because they believe that the spirit of the wiki is of greater interest than contact with Jagex. RuneScape:Assume good faith is a valid policy even if you do not agree with it. It is very rude and disrespectful to tell me to "grow up" for reminding a user of one of our most important policies. I would have expected to see more civility out of a sysop. I do not fully support either side on this issue. This is not about disagreeing, it is about civility. Dtm142 02:32, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

A problem with wikis is that they are community-ruled. Don't get me wrong; that's also one of their strongpoints. It will be nearly impossible to end up being a wiki ruled by a tyranical dictator. Though, if someone needs to contact the leader(s) of a wiki for something important, they would not know who to contact. Unless they had already did work with a wiki, they would not know what the Heck a "bureaucrat" is.

Hmm... Who should I contact? I heard that this guy's a "bureaucrat", but this other person has been an administrator for five years. Oh! An admin! I should contact them!

If someone were needing to officially contact us, giving them 30 administrators would be quite daunting. As said earlier, the group needing to contact us could either not know where to start or could give up entirely.

If we had a small group of listed people to be the ones to deal with contacts such as the one we are discussing (as seen on RuneScape:Contact us), that would be a lot easier on the side of the people needing to contact us. Dragon helmChiafriend12Granite body (old)I have 12 friends. 02:10, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

OpposeI am all for knowing whatever I can as soon as I can. However, there appears to be no "fair" way for this contact with Jagex to work. Jagex appears to want to limit the dispersal of the information. Doing this for their Mods through their site is reasonable. Telling a Wikia community that only some of its members my possess information distributed to the Wikia seems against the spirit of a Wikia. Should consensus go against me here, I agree that the best choice would be a 'crat. At the least, we should wait and see what Jagex does with other sites if they do not choose to contact someone here via a method of their own choosing. RumplePug 02:40, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Comment I am not against us choosing a representative to talk to. In my opinion this does not violate AEAE, and this is not a big deal. The person picked isn't "The king of the wiki" it is just a person that will represent our wiki and our interests while remaining true to us and easier to talk to for Jagex. Remember, above all our goal is to create the best site we possibly can. Whatever we decide and if Jagex decides to contact us or not, that does not change that we are the best Runescape fansite and information site there is. Ancient talismanBladeQuick chat button# 05:50, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Everyone please try to remain civil, bickering will get us nowhere.-- 20:37, 18 April 2009 (UTC) You know, in personal opinion, I don't think Jagex is going to contact us. If we can't even discuss the hypothetical situation in where they do contact us and how we should approach it without tempers starting up, it's just going to be worse if they actually do so why would they? 23:31, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Closed I had no idea that this topic would cause so much trouble, and I really don't want anyone to get upset over it, so I would like to withdraw my original proposal (well there isn't much support for it anyway). Sysop crown Hurston (T # C) 17:01, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

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