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Forums: Yew Grove > Maps!

Our maps suck. They're inconsistent, low quality and usually unmarked. I would link to some of them but I'm sure you've all seen some. Readers tend to like maps and use them consistently, and we come up short. Buuut...we can do better! We can notate, link, add (good) legends, and a bunch of other things that users find useful. Instead of working so hard on creating ever-larger dimensions of pictures with all sorts of particles and bloom and yadda yadda, we can make the maps a high priority and get so that they are usable and accessible.

Check out some of Tip.It's maps. Compare specifically this with this. Their maps are always of high quality and easy to understand. If we're going to improve the maps, it may be a good idea to emulate their depth of information shown on a single picture. Note that this is quite a bit different from imitation; we're not going to copy their techniques or pictures, because we're the ones that send out the DMCA notices, we don't receive them Lol

Things of interest:

Namespace - For technical reasons I think it would be best if we had all maps in a new namespace "Map". It would give us the ability to use the imagemap (see below), plus if we designated it as a non-content NS we could use the full 990 pixels of width without the sidebar in the way. This is probably going to be the most contested part of what we do for maps, but I think the advantages are great enough that it warrants creating a new namespace (on a sidenote, the Calculator namespace is failing.)

ImageMapping - This is what will set us apart from the other sites with good maps. Using ImageMap (seen in use at World map/interactive) we can have links from specific parts of the image to their respective monster pages, or whatever other pages could be linked from there.

We also need to decide how we want our maps to appear, have a clear set of guidelines so people know what to do when they're making a map. Personally I'd like to see:

  • 100% view without in-game text or other clutter - Turn off the titles in the world map, make sure there aren't NPC/Item dots on any minimap pictures. 100% is preferred because it keeps the size down and is more realistic.
  • Legend, compass rose and entrance. Maps need legends so people can tell what the notation is all about. Compass roses may seem a little silly as just about all of our maps will be north upwards, but when possible (and space permitting) we should have 'em. For dungeons and non-surface areas, include a small map of the entrance, preferably surrounded by a border.
  • Notation - This is where we have all of the dots and other things that inform the reader. These would be monsters, characters, icons, whatever else is relevant.
  • Ladders and multiple levels - Ladders should be highlighted and show where they lead. Dungeons with multiple levels should be clearly separated by number of levels below the surface.

Check out w:c:cookmeplox:User:Cook Me Plox/Map for an idea of what it might look like. Does anyone have ideas for changes to the guidelines? ʞooɔ 04:37, December 28, 2011 (UTC)

Discussion

Neutral - While I see value in the last few points, I highly doubt maps are as useful as you make them seem. Of course, city and dungeon maps are quite handy, but after a while, we can all dream the world map, right? We also have NPC maps now, which I think are rather unnecessary for 90% of the NPCs, and they work just fine, although I agree there is a certain inconsistency in the making of them. That Tipit map is indeed good, but the only difference is us having the legend next to the image and not part of it and transparency. To be frank, I am not sure exactly how much the smaller maps such as NPC maps are used, but I think not a lot. I suggest we just keep those as they are, and we may implement the suggested changes in the larger, more useful maps. The map on your wiki (ego! =P) is very nicely made on that matter, although I'd rather have smallified images of the particular monster to link to their articles than circles. 18px-Avatar.png Fswe1 26px-Brassica_Prime_symbol.svg.png 09:34, December 28, 2011 (UTC)

This map project is aimed towards area & dungeon maps, not small NPC maps which we already have a system for. Small maps like those, though, most likely don't require image mapping/a legend so I don't think it will be an issue. Also, what do you mean by "smallify images"? You mean the clicking area for the link to the monster page? User:Urbancowgurl777/Signature 18:57, December 28, 2011 (UTC)
Comparable to this, but with real images. 18px-Avatar.png Fswe1 26px-Brassica_Prime_symbol.svg.png 19:55, December 28, 2011 (UTC)
Huh? The monster images? User:Urbancowgurl777/Signature 22:13, December 28, 2011 (UTC)
Monster images might get a bit complicated. And yeah, it's mainly for dungeon maps. ʞooɔ 22:22, December 28, 2011 (UTC)
Then I mostly support. Not very sure how useful our maps are at all, but with a legend and some extras they should make a handier help that the in-game ones (if present). 18px-Avatar.png Fswe1 26px-Brassica_Prime_symbol.svg.png 19:16, December 29, 2011 (UTC)

Support - The dragonkin approve of this proposal! Our current maps are rather terrible, having the information on the actual image would help as people won't have to keep looking back and forth between the image and the article. We need to stop having maps that look like this... Adventurer's log Wahisietel (Talk) Quest map icon 09:43, December 28, 2011 (UTC)

That's one of the better ones...check out File:Phoenix Gang Map.png. ʞooɔ 22:22, December 28, 2011 (UTC)
*dies* 18px-Avatar.png Fswe1 26px-Brassica_Prime_symbol.svg.png 19:16, December 29, 2011 (UTC)

Support - Just need to note a set of guidelines when making the file in question. That it can't be more than 990px, must use a certain font-family and anything else relevant to the file and the wiki. Maybe if we can actually make this namespace work, unlike the slow Portal or rather dead Calculator NS, it will be worth the time. Of course, it would help to know how one plans to make some of those maps when they don't show up in the minimap (e.g. Barrows) or the World Map (a ton of stuff).

Going back to the non-content NS width, if we are going to make use of ImageMap for every article in the proposed Map NS, we might need to make the aforementioned width the required size of all files or keep them to a reasonable width. I'm sure there is other information we could provide on the Map NS articles other than files (Maybe a verbatim MediaWiki message) telling users that they can interact with the map. Also, there are many times in articles that I've gotten frustrated at the lack of maps, hence my going to Tip.it when non exist here. Text can only do so much without good visual reference. Ryan PM 10:18, December 28, 2011 (UTC)

It would be a good idea to limit them all to 990px; I'm not sure there are any single-level dungeons that take up more than that much space. Mapping dungeons not found on the world map is fairly difficult (just ask Exor), but I think the time taken is worth it. You are right that we are going to need to standardize monster icons, font, how we draw attention to minimap icons, that kind of thing. Once this gets enough support we can move on to crafting some more example maps and creating guidelines. And we can also use them (preferably un-ImageMapped) in mainspace. ʞooɔ 22:22, December 28, 2011 (UTC)

Strong Support - I see no reason not to. As a side not, I have programs available to make those NPC maps and to update the world map. User:Guthix1110/Signature 15:43, December 28, 2011 (UTC)

Support - I love the idea of a map namespace. I've always found maps very useful for quests etc., so my only problem using them here was the fact that they didn't exist. Your guidelines look great; the only factor I'd like to see implemented is collectiveness, i.e. having a set font, icons to depict whatever they're depicting, etc. I'd prefer to move away from the overly old-style, medieval fonts we tend to use for these things, into something more like Lucida or Monotype corsiva, but that's for another day. I also think we shouldn't initiate this project until we have a proper guide on how to create the proposed type of map, but I think this will be a huge triumph for us if we can pull it off. I'd worry that we might be taking on too much at the moment, what with the improvement of our music articles and ongoing scenery thread underway, but if we stay structured this could be a massive success. Ronan Talk 19:48, December 28, 2011 (UTC)

Strong Support, more maps please - Maps would help alot; Tip.it's maps are easy to navigate through, and here users have to look carefully to match the floors. It's rather confusing when doing quests such as Underground Pass. I also support Flaysian's idea about consistency of fonts and icons. And wiki also misses maps for NPC's, monsters, shops... and many other things. It'd be cool if there was a way to integrate the World Map into articles and add a pointer. I'm not sure where I saw it but there was world map of RS based on Google Maps engine. I guess it'd be a fast, easy way to add mini-maps into articles as these maps would have united design, they'd be scrollable and zoomable. I just hope it's possible to display these at Wiki. User:Dontlietome7/Signatures 09:43, December 29, 2011 (UTC)

Support - I'm ok with this, just not sure who'd be willing to make the maps, 'cuz you know there's going to be a ton of them :P Template:Signature/Smuff 14:11, December 29, 2011 (UTC)

comment - made an imagemap at Kuradal's Dungeon#Map. is there anything missing? --Iiii I I I 03:47, December 31, 2011 (UTC)

The links aren't working correctly for me. Also, I think Cook wants to make it so all maps have the same formatting. ;3= User:Urbancowgurl777/Signature 04:35, December 31, 2011 (UTC)
they were originally working, but Cook asked me to crop it and said he'd redo the imagemap. unfortunately, he went afk right after he said that :O --Iiii I I I 04:39, December 31, 2011 (UTC)
Fixed and improved the imagemap. ʞooɔ 06:34, December 31, 2011 (UTC)

Strong Support - Maps are one of the few things that other RuneScape fansites have on us. We need to standardize them, improve the quality of existing ones, and make more. ~ Fire Surge icon Sentry Telos Talk  07:43, December 31, 2011 (UTC)

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