Forum:Regarding the user "Imxor Solmo"

Forums: Yew Grove > Regarding the user "Imxor Solmo"

Hello, I am Ice Rush12, as you probably know, and Wahiesitel in the clan chat. I will get down to the heart of this matter; or in this case, the heartless. There is a certain player within the wiki that is repeatedly infesting the clan chat with his constant slander, profanity, and rule abuse. He has, above all, broken RS:UTP time and time again. In fact, I have solid evidence of this, in screenshots given to me by a fellow wikian; the links are below.

(1) (2) (3) (4)

In all of these cases, our fellow wikian is being constantly harassed. Since, according to the calm responses, and the good faith policy, there should be no discretion with the person that submitted the screenshots.

My request is simple. Rather than let Imxor Solieve Solmo to continue to wreak havoc in the clan chat, and receive only a slap on the wrist from an admin, I believe that we should put him on a tighter leash, and kicking does not solve this; he has a friend(s) that is(are) unknown to me, that has been recruiting him back into the clan just as fast as he ticks an admin off and gets kicked. I think that if he utters any type of slander, harassment, or more serious cussing, and a screenshot is submitted, he should be banned. In this, I'm tired of those who have rank being the ones to decide what happens to those who break the rules, for once, why can't the rest of the Runescape Wiki have a say in things?

Imxor is like a mushroom on a tree; he takes our pleasure from being in the clan chat when he's logged in, and we receive nothing in return! I don't think I've seen him say so much as "gratz" to someone who has achieved something! If you think that Imxor should have a tighter leash, please leave a "yes" as a reply. If you don't think that Imxor is as harsh as he is, please don't say anything.

Thank you for your time reading this. We need to get rid of Imxor!Ice Rush12^Talk_Hiscores 23:39, April 22, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion

Comment - All of these messages appear to take place in Private Message. If it's harassment, ignore them. User:TyA/sig 23:44, April 22, 2013 (UTC)

Comment - All the given screenshots are from private messages, and so aren't good evidence. It would be far better if actual evidence from the clan chat was presented, not just some private conversation with someone - not yourself - who has "left" the wiki for some time. Also, not 'gratzing' is a ridiculous comment - you might get 6-10 'gratzes' from a clan of 25-50 people logged in, should they all be banned too?  @Gaz#7521 00:06, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

Yes. Ban them. MolMan 00:07, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

Though I know that they are from private messages, Imxor has done this kind of thing plenty times in the Clan Chat. It happens fairly often; it would be easy to get plenty of screenshots provided enough time. Plenty could even be over 30 screenshots.User:King kolton9/Signature 01:57, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

Maybe that should've been done before bringing this to the 'grove then.  @Gaz#7521 09:35, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

I agree, that should have been done, it could probably be done before this forum is closed. User:King kolton9/Signature 21:27, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

Comment - as someone who is not part of the RSW clan, this just seems like a witch hunt to me. AnselaJonla 00:10, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

One that isn't even aimed at the right person, due to your persistent inability to get the name right. AnselaJonla 00:12, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

Comment - This is about Imxor Solmo right? And not User:Exor Solieve? Haidro ^(talk) 01:03, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

You're both at fault. Ice, you need to stop baiting Immo. Immo, you need to stop being your regular dickish self. Although I would like to know who re-invited Immo after I kicked him. In any case, this is terrible evidence and isn't going to lead to anything meaningful. ʞooɔ 01:12, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

Commensalism ftw - User:Urbancowgurl777/Signature 01:16, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

Comment - Screenshots for this case are horrible "solid" evidences. I can easily edit one up with basically anyone's RSN to it. At least make a video of it if you really want to provide "solid evidence". --Jlun2 (talk) 01:19, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

You know how difficult it would be to "edit one up"? It is real evidence, there is no doubt, but what the evidence is depicting is what the problem is. User:Urbancowgurl777/Signature 01:21, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

Here you go:

http://i762.photobucket.com/albums/xx262/jlun2/ChattingRS_zpsc0d7e212.png --Jlun2 (talk) 01:42, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

You forgot the period. User:Urbancowgurl777/Signature 01:44, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

The point of the image wasn't to show off my editing skills, just to demonstrate that it can be done without much effort. Also, just to be clear, I'm not saying that the images the OP presented are fake, just trying to show that images cannot be "solid" evidence for conflicts in chats.--Jlun2 (talk) 01:49, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

My point was that yes, image editing can be done, but that doesn't mean you are professional enough to avoid obvious mistakes that would show if an image is faked or not. User:Urbancowgurl777/Signature 01:51, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

Until someone denies that the pictures are real, this is a pointless exercise. ʞooɔ 01:52, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

I'd like to point out the fact that the screen-edit was done with a fixed size game; the chat window is solid. Though I'm not disputing anything, I'd just like to say to avoid anything in the future: Ice can't Photoshop anything. Anything. He can't even use a cookie cutter or whatever your image editor calls it. Again, I'm just making points, not challenging or disputing anything.User:King kolton9/Signature 02:05, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

Comment - Cook, 原來是你。 Anyways, I've been attentive enough to know in the clan chat that Imxor has had quite some conflicts with RSW's clan mates, especially his attitude and tone during conflicts. Although I cannot really recall specific cases concerning the conflicts he's been involved in, I know that his attitude can sometimes create a bad atmosphere in the clan chat. While the image evidence is compelling, I doubt it's enough to warrant a ban. -- Spine^Talk 02:17, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

First of all mushrooms are delicious so we hardly get nothing in return. Second, telling people who disagree with you not to say anything here is, uh, not how things are done. Third, it's a hoot and a half that your screenshots are from Warthog. Fourth, sure he's a dick but I like dicks and he's much more fun in the chat than you are. User:(wszx)/sheeeeple 06:57, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

What, do I not count anymore?

“

However, at no time may a user's group membership, in-game experience, or any other factor regarding that user's status affect the validity of his opinions in disputes.

”

 : Rhys ^Talk 22:17, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

Request for Closure - This is as ridiculous as thread as the Derank yoda thread Forum:Yoda_and_his_negativity. It's going to achieve nothing except continuing trolling, which I'll abstain from, and will achieve nothing.

Given that you have no evidence of behaviour inside the CC, as those screenshots depict behaviour outside the CC, It's a little ridiculous to postulate that any 'any type of slander, harassment, or more serious cussing' should result in an immediate ban. That would set a terrible precedent, and would not doubt result in your removal within hours of that being instituted. Furthermore, cussing can be solved by turning your chat filter to on.

In the interest of full disclosure, it was Rel that let me back into the Clan.

And now, we come to this, 'I'm tired of those who have rank being the ones to decide what happens to those who break the rules'. Do you misunderstand the concept of an Rfr? It is to decide who the community decides who should decide who is breaking what rules. What good would a rank be if you didnt get to decide who was breaking the rules.

Not even going to touch the mushroom analogy. Although, im pretty sure i wished Elune grats when he got 99 slayer. (Even though he got it before me. Bastard.)

Vote Immo/Lash 2013

Immo Voted Worst Wikian 2013 09:40, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

In addition to the point about RfRs, if you have an issue with how one/more clan admin(s) are enforcing the rules, you should talk to them about it, or make a review thread on their adminship (a la User:TyA/Administrator Review or RuneScape:Editor Review/Archive).  @Gaz#7521 17:27, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

Not gratzing=ban forever - Bad Immo, Bad!  Archmage Elune  ^Talk_HS fetus is my son and I love him. 09:46, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

Comment - as joke threads go, this one wasn't particularly funny. Ended up appearing too serious and leaving the OP looking embarrassingly like he genuinely did think the thread might work. 3/10 Raging Bull ^Talk 09:53, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

Comment - I did not ask for a ban, and saying that he did not say "gratz" was harsh - I just ask that we put a little tighter leash on Imxor than waiting for him to slip on his own tongue. I can't even say anything when Imxor is online without him nagging me about my own RFRs.Ice Rush12^Talk_Hiscores 20:12, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

Comment - Everyone is wrong. Dead wrong. MolMan 20:39, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

Comment - I'm just going to leave this here, from the IRC logs collected by Evilbot. Defend Imxor, as you please, I mean... He doesn't do nothing wrong, right?...

“

[06:41:23] :Warthog!~Warthog@wikia/Rhys-Jones JOIN #rswiki [06:41:39] :Warthog!~Warthog@wikia/Rhys-Jones PRIVMSG #rswiki :Is Cook_Me_Plox present? [06:41:42] :Immo!~immo@unaffiliated/immolation PRIVMSG #rswiki :THIS WILL GO WELL [06:42:01] :Immo!~immo@unaffiliated/immolation PRIVMSG #rswiki :EAT A DICK WARTHOG. THIS IS A PLACE OF BLASPHEMY, AND HORRORS YOU THINK YOU'RE ABOVE

”

Relevant discussion starts at the above quote, and continues for a short while.

It frustrates me how this thread has derailed from a level of User:Ice Rush12 declaring a very solid argument on how the wiki is allowing their user to break several rules, on several different occasions, and yet he faces no consequences for his actions. How about the time has was banned from the IRC for a long time for consistent disruptive and obnoxious behavior to other users, I guess that counts for naught too, right?

I'm shocked at the level of diplomatic behaviour everyone is showing towards User:Ice Rush12, just because of small simple past judgements. I've heard of people being up someone's arse, but the fact that a valid point has been brought up, and the thread has turned into a "Let's show how great the remainder of the wiki's community is by acting like absolute dicks towards another user". Pathetic Rhys ^Talk 22:08, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

From what I've seen, most of the discontent on this thread has been about the nature of the evidence, not who posted what. I don't deny that there have been some instances of this though. Also, how are we meant to come to a clear conclusion when we don't have all the necessary facts and with you hiding behind somebody else who may very well agree with you? All we have are a bunch of PMs, and now that IRC log, which didn't come to light until after this thread was started Template:Signatures/Ciphrius Kane 22:24, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

There's a clear difference between users being discontent at said evidence due the possibility of it being faked, and obnoxious/nitpicking posts by User:Raging bull, User:Elune Anzu, User:(wszx) and others, with the full intention of trolling User:Ice Rush12. As side in this, I'm by no means hiding behind another user, this thread is entirely down to the decision of the original poster, and he requested whether or not he could use the evidence of harassment in his argument. I don't see why you're taking a shot at me over the timing of my post either, some of us are exceptionally busy doing other thing. Rhys ^Talk 22:37, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

Ok let me be more blunt: you are claiming that there is more happening but not providing the evidence, then moaning when we do not take the non existent evidence into account. As for the evidence being faked, if you bothered to read the thread you'd see that was 1 person whose entire argument has been destroyed. And as for the trolls? Just ignore them! If they're being a bunch of dicks then their views will be counted as such Template:Signatures/Ciphrius Kane 22:44, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

Let me be entirely honest here; I don't exactly look in to the future expecting any screenshot evidence of heated conflicts or obnoxious behaviour to be worthy of taking screenshots of. Plenty of other users know the kind of behaviour said user displays in the clan chat and other community sectors of the wiki, and I've attempted to provide evidence for things that I can remember, that is within my ability to draw upon. I'm going to ask you to stop being a judgmental prick in whether or not I have taken the time to read the thread. If you bothered to read my previous comment, you'ld see that I acknowledged that that argument was made, but never gave any further comment on it. Oh, and come on... Let's just ignore the dickish replies on the thread... What? Is that how the wiki deals with all of it's problems now, just with like Imxor's constant malbehaviour? We sweep it under the rug and forget about it? Rhys ^Talk 22:54, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

Comment - Before I begin, I will point out that I can't speak for the clan chat, as I am not in the wiki's clan and never frequent the cc. However, I have plenty of experience on IRC and on this wiki itself, and it's enough to tell me two things: Immo is a dick, and it's completely perplexing that so many people choose to defend his behavior.

Immo has been a thorn in the side of this community for a while. On or around 16 June 2011, he was banned from IRC for UTP/GTS violations. His ban was extended to a year shortly afterward for ban evasion and continued trolling. Since his return I have not noticed a serious improvement in his behavior: He is still antagonistic, aggressive, and disrespectful. I have clashed with him multiple times in the channel, the most previous time being because he didn't like something I had said about reddit several months prior. (Search "fuckwit" to reach the relevant text, as well as to see an example of Immo's tendency to use personal attacks.)

In addition to that, Immo's talk page is dotted with comments about his attitude. Check out this section on his talk page, detailing a polite request from Rhys (Warthog) to stop harassing him in-game (seemingly, about the same comments on which this thread was founded); "blow me" is Immo's elegantly written response.

No one can deny that Immo is a dick. We must turn, then, to the question of why so many people defend him. I see folks beating up Ice Rush12 for providing imperfect evidence of his behavior. So what? Which is more likely: Warthog went to the trouble of faking those screenshots in order to discredit Immo, or Immo is being, as Cook eloquently put it in this thread, his usual dickish self? I firmly accept the latter proposition. I would accept it even if the screenshots were faked. Yes, it would demonstrate that this particular incident did not happen, but it would not be evidence that Immo is not a dick. I have already provided examples to the contrary, and if you care enough to be reading this thread, you too have probably seen plenty of examples of his poor behavior.

We have a very well-known policy about the treatment of other users. Immo has violated it so many times that he clearly has no regard whatsoever for not just the policy, but the concepts of respect, maturity, and common courtesy on which the policy is based. We either enforce the policies that we've set down, or we don't. I for one am tired of the other administrators giving Immo a free ride to ignore the rules and act however he pleases. It's doubly unacceptable that those who complain are dismissed with comments like "just don't provoke him" (Cook) and "he didn't violate UTP enough to deserve a mute" (paraphrased from a comment made by Ty in the aforelinked evilbot log). Immo doesn't even edit articles or improve the wiki's content, so what exactly is he bringing to the community that is beneficial enough for people to ignore his behavior?

I'm tired of waiting for other people to step up. I propose that we permanently ban Immo from the wiki, clan chat, and IRC. He's had it coming for a long time. (Edit on 23:18, April 23, 2013 (UTC): Forgot to add that Releara should be investigated for abuse of position for undoing Immo's kicks.) Discuss, please. --Andorin (Talk) (Contribs) 23:11, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

Comment - I'm just dragging this back from the archive, minus the extra comments, as it is a relevant piece of evidence. There are some other smaller personal attacks in the lines proceding the quote below.(5).

“

[06:41:23] :Warthog!~Warthog@wikia/Rhys-Jones JOIN #rswiki [06:41:39] :Warthog!~Warthog@wikia/Rhys-Jones PRIVMSG #rswiki :Is Cook_Me_Plox present? [06:41:42] :Immo!~immo@unaffiliated/immolation PRIVMSG #rswiki :THIS WILL GO WELL [06:42:01] :Immo!~immo@unaffiliated/immolation PRIVMSG #rswiki :EAT A DICK WARTHOG. THIS IS A PLACE OF BLASPHEMY, AND HORRORS YOU THINK YOU'RE ABOVE

”

Rhys ^Talk 23:25, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

Comment - I hugely agree with AndorinKato, and would give a vote to the thing, but since I created this article, I believe that I can't, so you have my mental applause/approval :)Ice Rush12^Talk_Hiscores 23:28, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

Support - Whilst I'm slightly sceptical of what appears to be a suggestion that someone who does not edit the wiki should be treated different to someone who does, I think Andorin has a point. When I first heard about this thread being in the pipeline (a couple of weeks ago) the fact that it was being created by Warthog and Ice Rush did dull the overall point of the message being stated here, and frankly the original execution isn't a convincing argument. I will concede that Immo does tend to provoke those with not particularly thick skins, but it's a lacking defence to a history of policy violations. I have no personal issue with him, nor do many of the regulars of IRC or clan chat as we can see by the archived discussion, but this isn't acceptable behaviour.

I'm not commenting on Releara's actions until he/she has commented here, or has at least been made fully aware of this thread and it's implications.

1. REDIRECT User:Cqm/Signature

Thick skins shouldn't matter. The fact remains that Imxor has been acting like Imxor.--User:King kolton9/Signature 23:53, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

Comment - With how light the moderation is in the IRC, I see no reason to permanently ban him from it. The CC and Wiki are other matters that I have no strong feelings towards his banning on. User:TyA/sig 23:42, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

The whole point of my post is that light moderation is part of the problem. If the ops actually enforced UTP against Immo when appropriate, we wouldn't have this issue. --Andorin (Talk) (Contribs) 23:49, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

You are one of the ops. You cannot complain about enforcement if you're the one not doing it. Immo Voted Worst Wikian 2013 06:34, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, he enforces things alright. Rhys ^Talk 07:51, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

Support - Per AndorinUser:King kolton9/Signature 23:53, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

Clarification - Relaera says that: She reinvited Immo after he said he'd left the clan. She had no knowledge of the circumstances he "left" under. ʞooɔ 01:08, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

Comment - Can we skip the imminent 'evidence in drabs' bullshit that's going to happen over the course of this thread. Warthog: Finish going through your 50mb log files, produce all the evidence you want, and lets finally start deciding. There's no need to keep fucking around. EDIT: You too Andorin/Ice Rush.

Immo Voted Worst Wikian 2013   10:15, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

Oppose CC ban, Neutral IRC - I've seen Imxor in Clan Chat plenty of times, the first thing I'll admit is that yes he can be argumentative, in fact, I think at any one point of time, most of the Clan Chat users (including Ice Rush, and myself) can be argumentative, there are some extremely passionate debates in the Clan Chat itself (I'll come to that in a moment).

First however, referring to 'the evidence', my take is that it's healthy debate, Imxor was curious as to Warthog's involvement in a Request for Rank after he left the clan chat, Warthog explained that he still had a vested interest (presumably because he still uses the Wiki, and the wiki community extends to the clan chat), and explained why he likes his new clan better. I don't see enough to sway me that Imxor's behaviour is inappropriate for the clan chat.

As for my second point, Warthog does have a point (in screenshot 2) about rules enforcement, I recall approximately two weeks ago a rather politically/religiously charged conversation between two parties (I can't remember who the second party was, so I won't name the other user's name out of fairness), about evolution, after two polite requests per the rules that they consider taking to a friend chat, I decided to turn off my clan chat, as it was bugging me after a bad week. If the rules were have been respected, and/or enforced as written then the argument would be moot. My point is, there are bigger fish to fry.

I can't speak for Imxor's IRC behaviour, as I have only recently rejoined the IRC channel, but in summary for the request for a Clan Chat ban, it comes down to: Did the argument/discussion spill into Clan Chat? Unknown/No Proof. Are there worse violations of the rules in the Clan Chat? I think so. Would it be fair to single out & punish Imxor in the CC for something said in private? Based on previous answer, I don't think so. Finally, does the Clan Chat need big arguments like this, no. --RSDaftVader (talk) 10:26, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

This is stupid - I have spoken to both Wahkesitel/IceRush and Imxor Solmo about this, and have spent quite a lot of time in the CC when both were there. This whole "issue" is just a personal feud between the two which has nothing to do with the wiki. I suggest Wah/Rush and Imxor sort their issues out personally (with a mediator if necessary) or try out the new Duel Arena to decide who is right.

IceRush, the RSW has nothing to do with this fight and you know it. Bringing something like this to the Yew Grove is a waste of time for all of us. Oil4 ^Talk 11:59, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

Also, what the hell is "If you don't think that Imxor is as harsh as he is, please don't say anything." supposed to mean?! Oil4 ^Talk 12:10, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

I don't usually voice my opinions on clan chat issues like this, but I feel like I should post my opinion on this one. Regarding Immo, I think Cook summed up what I would say. In addition, Ice Rush and Rhys should have both added Immo to their ignore list long ago (and made use of ignore features in their IRC client as required). Rel, I can't fault - if he didn't know, he didn't know (since Immo was not on the clan banlist).

As Immo said (and I commented on) above, ranks decide how to deal with rulebreakers as they have passed a process where the wiki decided that it trusts them to act out the rules on its behalf (be that a RfA or RfCCA). Bringing every tiny discussion to the 'grove is just a waste of everyone's time, so the ranks are there to moderate. Again, if you disagree with how an admin dealt with a/some situation(s), then you should speak to them about it, or make a review thread about their actions if necessary. I would also encourage other admins to be open to criticism or review - if you have a problem with how I have dealt with something or my actions in general, please chat with me about it.

Finally, the moderation aspect. Yes, sometimes I agree that the moderation could be better. It doesn't help that surprisingly often, when people are asked to drop their discussion or move elsewhere, they just ignore the admin - I know that this has happened to me several times, as well as to others (Rel jumps to mind). If people want the moderation to be effective they need to actually listen to the moderators, and respect the rules. (If you really think this is an issue then it should probably be its own thread.)  @Gaz#7521 13:08, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

Wait, if he was never supposed to be re-invited, then why is he still here? Shouldn't that end the argument?User:King kolton9/Signature 13:38, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

Being kicked without being added to the banlist implies the kick was not meant to have any permanence. A slap on the wrist without an extended time away.  @Gaz#7521 16:42, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

Is enforcing the rules against the rules? For every YG I've seen related to a user in IRC or the clan chat, it always seems that the underlying issue is that the moderators are not moderating. User:Urbancowgurl777/Signature 15:55, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

Maybe it is worth making another thread to discuss the issues with the moderating in the clan chat?  @Gaz#7521 16:42, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

Moderation thread has now been created here. --Shockstorm (talk) 19:19, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

Comment - I returned to RS a few weeks ago, and a few days in I became wary of Imxor. While he has been showing hostility towards Ice Rush inside the CC he does normally stop after a warning - at least when I'm there, anyway. That said, Imxor is not always the instigator here - I have seen Ice/Wahi start fights too; I don't have screenshots for this but it has happened. With regards to the exceptionally vague proposal, I'd suggest that Ice Rush clarifies what he means by a "tighter leash", since that could mean anything from an official warning like the one issued to Parsons a while back, to a ban. Without a concrete idea of what action would be taken there is little to nothing to support here. User:Real Not Pure/Signature 16:41, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

Comment - This thread is shocking... The wiki blatantly has an obnoxious user, that has violated rules many times in different areas of the wiki's community. You have allowed him to repost responses in the thread that aren't exactly any nice, and yet you're making User:Ice Rush12 look like the enemy in this case. If you have a problem with him, take it to another thread about him, it shouldn't be here. Things like this are primary reasons into why I left the clan chat: If you're within this group of people, you've got special rights over everyone to be an obnoxious and malicious twat to others, with no repercussions. This thread is just a waste of my time now. Bawble was banned for reasons nowhere near this severe. Rhys ^Talk 17:41, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

This thread is shocking? Calling another user an "obnoxious and malicious twat" is therefore not, I assume. Nobody is making Ice Rush look like an enemy, only questioning his evidence and the rather peculiar "If you don't think that Imxor is as harsh as he is, please don't say anything". I agree entirely with Cook and Oli in that this discussion is entirely based on a personal vendetta between you and Imxor, which Ice Rush entered for some strange reason we have yet to find out. If this is so, please keep it that way: wiki drama is unnecessary and not nice. Hey, here's a great idea: use the ignore list! I'm sure you know what it is, so apart from the intention to deliberately instigate conflict I really am in the dark as to why you have yet to implement it.

Sorry for the rather aggressive post, but I just had to get it out of myself. β (t&c)Oil4 I made this 18:01, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

"Use the ignore list" - I keep hearing that... So what... The wiki approves of their members verbally assaulting other users... And when someone is at fault, it's the other user for not using their ignore list? So much for policies... Hey, admin, don't like what that guy is saying in the clan chat? Don't enforce rules and punish him, use your ignore list instead! Rhys ^Talk 18:12, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

I wonder, why do you so vigorously refuse to use the ignore list? I cannot see what is so difficult about clicking a button and pressing some keys. Yes, it's not your fault that someone's harassing you, but your argument against that person becomes so much better when you do everything in your power to either resolve the issue or stop it from happening, and using the ignore list is the first thing I can think of to do with that. Conversely, the fact that you refuse to try to calm it down by ignoring Imxor makes your position much weaker and might as well be you saying that you don't really care about getting the conflict resolved and over with, and all you want is, on the contrary, to create as much drama as possible. You're like the bullied child who refuses to ignore the bully and walk away from the situation, and instead provokes him, and then complains about it. Tl;dr: if you actually tried to resolve the issue by ignoring Imxor and didn't refer to him this obscenely, I can guarantee you there would be significantly less arguments against you in this thread. β (t&c)Oil4 I made this 18:29, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

Whether or not I use the ignore list is completely irrelevant in this argument. I'll put this a simply as I can: Imxor is breaking rules. Imxor is not being punished for breaking said rules. Rather, others are being made to be at fault for a decision that wasn't made by them. Rhys ^Talk 18:44, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

Whether you do as much as is possible to reduce the need to complain is most relevant. β (t&c)Oil4 I made this 18:52, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

It doesn't constitute a defence for the person in question, however. Rhys ^Talk 18:58, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

1. If someone was complaining to you and requesting action against a person, you'd want to be sure that the had at least tried to resolve the issue, right?

2. Can you please answer the question I had posed earlier: why do you so vehemently defend your right not to use an ignore list instead of going ahead and using it? β (t&c)Oil4 I made this 19:10, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

Sadly, the ignore list doesn't spill over to the IRC when I'm being asked to "Suck a dick" by Imxor, nor does it spill over on to my talk page in which he has kindly asked me to "Blow" him. Ignoring him in-game doesn't stop potential contact elsewhere. Rhys ^Talk 19:15, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

Wth dude? If someone is being disruptive, they should be removed from the clan chat. Asking all users to put the disruptive user on their ignore lists is ridiculous, and that is basically what you are asking because, from what I've seen on this thread, Rhys isn't the only one being "bullied". User:Urbancowgurl777/Signature 19:17, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

What Fergie said. Bluefire, why are you defending Immo's behavior? If he's breaking the rules, the onus is on him to not be a dick, not on everybody else to put him on ignore. You might claim it's private harassment only (and therefore, somehow not enough of a violation of UTP to warrant disciplinary action), but it became public when Immo posted that comment on his talk page. --Andorin (Talk) (Contribs) 19:32, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree with Fergie. If someone is being obnoxious and is asked to stop, the response is certainly not "Ignore list me or put up with it." User:(wszx)/sheeeeple 19:54, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

I'd be interested to hear the reasoning behind linking to that screenshot. This discussion concerns Imxor, not Rhys. User:Real Not Pure/Signature 20:19, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

It's pretty obvious that I wanted to point out that Warthog is a ghastly hypocrite who wants people he annoys to add him to their ignore but when someone annoys him, that person needs to be banned. User:(wszx)/sheeeeple 20:33, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

Okay, but let's not get off topic again. User:Urbancowgurl777/Signature 20:34, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

←It's not actually offtopic. It pretty clearly shows that vendetta is what's driving Warthog, not genuine disinterested concern. If it were, Warthog would surely apply the standards to himself that he wants to apply to everyone else as regards the ignore list. User:(wszx)/sheeeeple 20:40, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

Well, I guess that disproves my assertion, and evidence thereof, that Immo is a dick. --Andorin (Talk) (Contribs) 20:43, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

I didn't say anything about you, Andorin, except this just now: Immo is indeed a dick, but so are you. Should we ban you as well? User:(wszx)/sheeeeple 20:45, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

Well, I guess that makes three of us. I, however, am "being a dick" because I'm trying to enforce this wiki's rules. You are being a dick just because you can. Kindly stop plaguing this thread with your pseudo-trolling and post something constructive or nothing at all. --Andorin (Talk) (Contribs) 20:49, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

Support - Per Andorin. If there is any justice left in the policies laid out by the community, you would learn to listen to the consensus that you created as a community. Rhys ^Talk 19:02, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

Ya'll screwed up. Big time. - This petty arguing and gross misrepresentation of justice is why I left the CC and joined the one Wart/Rhys is in. People cannot be elitist assholes all the time...but I see it anyway. Too bad, really, but it is what it is. If someone's a dick to someone else, you don't defend that someone, you look for ways to correct it, not punish others. I was hoping not to get involved in an idiotic decision for a cold-hearted community, but meh. That's all I can say, really. https://i.imgur.com/7kyt1iT.gif --WINE OF GOOD HEALTH _{(Actually Stinko)} 20:54, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

Oppose- This honestly seems like more of a feud between Immo and a few other users than an issue that would affect the Wiki and the clan. If you're really this upset, just add him to ignore.  Also, "If you don't think that Ixmor is as harsh as he is, don't say anything", that right there is an obvious attempt to stop any opposing votes from being posted. Megadog14^Talk 22:53, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

You don't think the fact that Immo is pissing off multiple people is a sign that he's a problem for the community as a whole? Also, don't forget I have called out the community as a whole in my post for tolerating Immo's UTP violation in an apparent double standard. We enforce UTP for everyone or for no one, and Immo has flat-out admitted in IRC that he has no regard for it. --Andorin (Talk) (Contribs) 23:01, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

I don't consider 3 people to be multiple, especially when 1 of them isnt even in the clan or the CC. Also, could you please link a picture or something showing Immo saying he has no regard for UTP? Megadog14^Talk 23:33, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

From evilbot's logs:

[22:43:36] :ty!ty@wikia/vstf/TyA PRIVMSG #rswiki :rules smooles

[22:44:07] :Immo!~immo@unaffiliated/immolation PRIVMSG #rswiki :Thats long been my policy about UTP, ty.

--Andorin (Talk) (Contribs) 07:43, April 25, 2013 (UTC)

Obvious Oppose - I have talked it over with the Overlloyd and promise to be good Immo Voted Worst Wikian 2013 22:56, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

Oppose - As others have said and is not irrefutably incorrect information, Immo is a dick. His sarcasm is wet and he generally hates incompetence. PMs are supposed to be private, by leaving them open you accept getting anything from anyone. That being said, he is not anymore lynching to members as most of the worst offenders we've had come by and even some of the own (myself included at times). I've been a friend with him for a few years and he generally is a nice guy to talk to, you just need to find common ground and have a sense of intuitive speaking. Let bygones be bygones. Lashazior^talk 01:35, April 25, 2013 (UTC)

Comment - Imxor was kicked from the clan, and was reinvited by Relaera, who was unaware of the fact he was kicked. If he was kicked for a reason, shouldn't he stay kicked? -- Spine^Talk 01:51, April 25, 2013 (UTC)

If a user is kicked, but not banned, he is eligible for an immediate reinvite at the discretion of the ranks. Obviously, the kicking administrator isn't going to reinvite, but unless there is some sort of list on the wiki for temporarily banned people (and I would oppose creating one, it'd be too annoying for every recruiter to check that every time he wanted to invite), then at least from a legal standpoint this action is fine. The other possibility is to ban him for a short amount of time (an hour, a day, et cetera), but that requires fairly diligent bookkeeping on RS:BLOCKED (which has been very spotty) and a subsequent unbanning action. --Liquid^Talk 05:51, April 25, 2013 (UTC)

It wasn't really at Rel's discretion since she thought he had just left. ʞooɔ 08:06, April 25, 2013 (UTC)

Support - If someone violates a policy, shouldn't that be that, regardless of who it was that brought it to anyone's attention? From what I've seen here, you have people ignoring this, because of how this was worded and over the validity of some pictures. You have IRC logs, and multiple people backing them. Why is this still going on? Jagex named me Able Tis (talk) 02:38, April 25, 2013 (UTC)

Comment - Firstly, Relaera did nothing wrong. Without a ban, there is nothing wrong with reinviting a kicked user (even if Relaera was present when Immo was kicked and decided to reinvite immediately, a situation that did not occur).

My personal opinion on this thread mirrors Gareth's. I see this back-and-forth as more of a personal vendetta than a clanwide issue. Yes, Immo is a dick sometimes (or all the time, depending on who you are). No, Ice Rush is not the most innocent person when it comes to baiting. However, I feel that an immediate permanent ban would be a hasty rush to judgment. If we are to deliver him a stern warning, this thread does that job wonderfully. Beyond that, a kick wouldn't solve much.

I have no opinion on the IRC ban or the wiki ban, as Immo is usually civil in the IRC and I have not interacted with him on the wiki. --Liquid^Talk 05:58, April 25, 2013 (UTC)

Arbitrary section break

About the rage - comment - Why is this so undecided? Vendetta or not, clanwide or not, CC or IRC or S:C or RSW, he is clearly BREAKING THE RULES! We have perfectly clear evidence of that! Someone is voilating one of the most firm rules of RSW unitl it looks like precautions in a cookbook! He is breaking rules, that is clear! By trying to hide him with "I haven't seen him be mean in the CC" when you are in the CC maybe, what, once a month? IRL that would obstruction of justice! It is clear that he is plainly in need of a very long ban, so bloody ban him and stop dancing around the Imxor!Ice Rush12^Talk_Hiscores 16:14, April 25, 2013 (UTC)

lol. User:(wszx)/sheeeeple 17:47, April 25, 2013 (UTC)

β (t&c)Oil4 I made this 17:54, April 25, 2013 (UTC)

It's undecided because this is a 'discussion'. Where people 'discuss' the merits of both sides. Just because you posted doesn't mean it was all going your way. I remember you being a large component in many incidents, including the one Cook kicked me for. Also, please stop making analogies. They're ridiculous and don't even make sense. If people haven't seen me do anything, Why *shouldnt* they say so. They're not obliged to believe everything you say off the bat.

Secondly, you've got no concept of obstruction of justice. These people aren't flagrantly blocking the judicial process.

Thirdly, why am I in need of a long ban now. Your initial post merely specifies that you wanted to keep a closer eye on me.

Immo Voted Worst Wikian 2013 19:36, April 25, 2013 (UTC)

Id just like to point out that you think that allowing someone who is not always in the clan chat to voice their opinion and state what they've seen is obstruction of justice, but yet you directly tell people who oppose your post not to say anything?!? Megadog14^Talk 22:25, April 25, 2013 (UTC)

p

I said that nobody that disagreed with this post should be quiet, because, despite all that those higher up say, RSW is still a bureaucracy, and should certain people voice disagreement, it would mean not only that this post would be abandoned, but the fact that Imxor needs to have a tighter leash, would be abandoned. Immo, since Gaz already expressed that he approved of this forum, and that he hasn't expressed otherwise, basically means that you were lying when you said you had talked to Gareth. That, and promising "to be good"; I don't trust you, why would I trust your 'promise's? A kick is basically a promise, and yet you avoided that! Regarding adding you to my ignore list, people request more evidence; if I ignore you, then there goes the evidence! Hello? If I only cared about not having to put up with Imxor, and not about the clan as a whole, I would have added him to my ignore list long ago, or quit the clan.Ice Rush12^Talk_Hiscores 23:51, April 25, 2013 (UTC)

No, you said, and i quote, "If you think that Imxor should have a tighter leash, please leave a "yes" as a reply. If you don't think that Imxor is as harsh as he is, please don't say anything." Meaning that if you dont think Immo is harsh (AKA disagreeing with your thread) dont say anything. That right there is telling people who disagree to be quiet!  Megadog14^Talk 01:49, April 26, 2013 (UTC)

No - Even if Ice Rush's arguments were valid (which they are not), or his evidence solid (which it is not), his incredible lack of judgement, Blindness to his own (innumerable) faults, and general immaturity rob his opinions and comments of any semblance of weight. There's no way that something this superficial and asinine can be taken seriously.--Cheers, Yoda 01:58, April 26, 2013 (UTC)