The Events Team work hard to setup community events and boss masses using our image. As such, it's obvious that we have pages on the wiki dedicated to them, their upcoming events, and applications.
Recently, we (I) started advertising ET events on the main page just above the "recent updates" section to encourage more people to attend events, as the event info can be quite hidden away. I also took the initiative a little while ago to remove sub-items on the navigation menu of the wiki linking to each upcoming event, because it was clear that it wasn't kept up to date often enough and things can get confusing.
Confusion caused by information on our pages is my main concern for this thread. Sometimes, events get moved around and rescheduled, especially during a busy time where people may be doing exams. This causes inconsistent scheduling across our pages. For example, here's what RuneScape:Events Team looks like currently:
|Screenshot of the Events Team page|
Yet, according to Reddit and other platforms that ET events are advertised, there's no Deathmatch event today (15 April), it's a Vindicta event instead...
|Screenshot of a Reddit post|
Really, this is nobody's fault - people forget to update pages, and updating so many different pages is a lot of hard work. Here's what the average scenario would be to keep everything up to date for ET if events were added/updated/changed around:
- Update the Google Calendar events
- Edit RuneScape:Events Team
- Edit the event page (e.g RuneScape:Events Team/Vindicta)
- Edit RuneScape:Events Team/Notice
This isn't ideal. Obviously, I'm not a member of ET, which is why I'm making a thread to discuss this - and hopefully some ET members will give their thoughts here. But, in my opinion we should try to clean this up and make sure people can stay up to date on our events. We also shouldn't be relying on Reddit and our in-game clan chat as the main source of advertisement for ET, when we get so many visitors on the wiki each day.
- Remove the individual event pages
- They are literally just replicas of the strategy pages that we already have on the wiki along with some (usually inconsistent) event info. Using the wiki as a sort of calendar just doesn't work with how MediaWiki is intended to be used. And it's confusing - the info on the Vindicta page right now is completely different to the other pages.
- Replace the schedule on RS:ET with a table of upcoming events
- This means dropping the Google Calendar and the links and replacing them with an easy-to-read, easy-to-update table. I mean surely updating a table on the wiki, even if table lines were done using templates to keep it simpler (like drop lines), would be better and faster than updating multiple locations? Maybe something similar to this: (note that keeping our times consistent with game time/UTC avoids confusing people with a list of times in different timezones)
|Event||Date||Time||Friends Chat||Requirements||Drop distribution|
|Vindicta||15 April 2018||20:00 UTC||Corn Colonel||80 , a high combat level and appropriate gear is recommended||LootShare|
- Make RuneScape:Events Team/Notice update dynamically
- This allows us to still have a list of upcoming events on the main page without the need for people to manually update yet another page. If we're working with tables/templates in a consolidated location like described above, this should be straight forward to embed.
- Change the title format of ET's Reddit threads
- Okay, really this is kinda optional, but the wording for the threads we make on Reddit for ET events is something along the lines of The Runescape Wiki Events Team will be hosting a [name] event [at time]! Check the page to confirm your timezone and requirements!. This feels overly complex and doesn't get to the point immediately. It just isn't a good advertisement. I feel like something along the lines of "Join the RS Wiki for a [name] event [at time]!" linking to the ET page is more than good enough.
If anyone has other suggestions, shoot. We need to make it easier for both the ET to run events without extra hassle, and we need to make it easier for people to know what is going on without confusion. Right now, I wouldn't know there is a Vindicta event today unless I either saw the Reddit post or clicked through to the actual Vindicta event page (which would be unlikely given that it is incorrectly dated on the main ET page and Google Calendar). In my opinion, that needs to change.
I'm glad someone said it, I guess it took someone outside of the ET to speak up. I totally agree, the way we organise/advertise events is a bit of a mess mostly due to a combination of busyness, disorganization and (admittedly) some laziness. I'm generally in favour in a revamp of the events page, my specific thought are as follows:
1. Oppose/Neutral (Event pages) - I'm on the fence on this one - on the one hand having individual event pages could be replaced by the strategy pages, but on the offhand event pages differ in an important way: they're written with events specifically in mind. Strat pages are very detailed and mostly intended for people who want to learn to solo (or role, for group bosses) and I think this is a bit overwhelming and unnecessary for people wanting to join events. The reality is most people just need to know enough to survive in a mass situation which I think our current event pages provide. Furthermore, there are many non-boss events (Treasure Trails, Hide and Seek) which definitely require their own pages since they are player-created activities. These arguments probably don't apply as much to minigame events tho.
2. Support (Events table) - Yeah, honestly I don't know why we haven't done this sooner - it's a much better system and nicer looking. Using templates would be ideal depending on how they're implemented. The purpose of the google calender was to provide a nice visual representation of when events are but this new table takes care of that problem so I'm happy to get rid of it (also since I was the only one updating it :P)
3. Support (Events Team/Notice dynamically update) - Sure. I don't know too much about how to do this but if its no trouble for whoever does then why not.
4. Support (Reddit title) - Also yeah. Another thing I kinda wanted to do earlier. The feral community that is r/runescape has no time for our frivolous wording. Keep it concise.
10:46, April 15, 2018 (UTC)
To echo what super said above: A storm of busyness, disorganization, and some laziness causes a bit of a problem in how we organize events. I'm happy that someone is speaking out on it.
Proposal 1: Remove the individual event pages Strong Oppose0
Quite a few events, such as the Hide N Seek event, contain information relevant only to that event. Others shorten or remove unnecessary information on the strategy pages---Such as information that isn't relevant to masses. Equipment tables are also changed (IIRC) to reflect masses. Plus, it simplifies things for people wishing to join events.
Proposal 2: Replace the schedule on RS:ET with a table of upcoming events Support
Honestly, I never really understood why we had the Google Calendar on the page. I've occasionally had problems with the ET page (And only the ET page) loading, and out of a complete guess I'd say it's related to the calendar and caching. I thought that people were getting use out of it—although I personally didn't—but that might not be true.
For what it's worth: When events are changed, a lot of the time it happens only on the ET-only spreadsheet. That's almost ALWAYS accurate and up-to-date, but we should be doing a better job at updating our other pages.
Proposal 3: Make RuneScape:Events Team/Notice update dynamically Strong Support
This needs no explanation, imho. This should have been done a while ago.
Proposal 4: Change the title format of ET's Reddit threads Support
I agree, the title is a bit drawn out; everyone's mostly just copy-pasted. For the past few events, I've been advertising with a shorter title. User:King kolton9/Signature 11:18, April 15, 2018 (UTC)
Comment - How would people feel about instead of outright removing the event pages as suggested, we simply change them to not refer to any specific dates? That way, we can keep the strategy/guidance on the pages and have one less page to update in favour of RS:ET 13:09, April 15, 2018 (UTC)
- Also oppose, it's easy to read and nice to have all the full information on one page - as well as having all the timezones available 19:27, April 15, 2018 (UTC)
Comment - The difficulty is that there appears to be no authoritative source of event information. It used to be that the individual pages had info on how a particular event was conducted (e.g., this is how we conduct a Zamorak GWD event) and the RS:ET page had links (with dates) to the individual pages in the order the events occurred. Setting aside the past changes to wiki page formats for a moment, at some point the ET decided to start using Google and Reddit in addition to the wiki. Then it seems it became Google and Reddit instead of the wiki. Now it appears to be nothing. Remember, the wiki ET is the wiki ET. These are wiki events, not some team independent of the wiki that sometimes posts its events on the wiki. If we're not using the wiki (a real-time web collaboration tool) as the authoritative source for information on wiki events, that is the first problem. If keeping the wiki and Google in sync is a problem, then the solution is to delete Google. If keeping the wiki and Reddit in sync is a problem, then the solution is to stop using Reddit. Wiki page formats or whatever are not the problem. Figure out page formats once the priorities are resolved. If you think Google and Reddit are nice-to-have, that's fine, but the wiki is have-to-have. Have-to-have comes before nice-to-have. If nice-to-have gets in the way of have-to-have, nice-to-have gets the ax. --User:Saftzie/Signature 17:28, April 15, 2018 (UTC)
- ??? we do still use individual pages on the wiki for events, with links from the RS:ET page ??? Google is also on the wiki, in addition to this, and Reddit is for advertising so people actually come, so two extra things don't hurt (and I don't think keeping either of them 'in sync' is a problem?)
19:02, April 15, 2018 (UTC)
- Yes, but the info in them is wrong. Hence this topic. --User:Saftzie/Signature 23:59, April 15, 2018 (UTC)
- As far as I can see, the info on the pages currently matches the ET spreadsheet, which is what we use internally.
- Yes, but the info in them is wrong. Hence this topic. --User:Saftzie/Signature 23:59, April 15, 2018 (UTC)
Comments - Looking at the front page now, I can't see any advertising for the current events? Also, afaik, I/other ET members don't know how to edit this in ourselves, so it's not just you doing it.
"Really, this is nobody's fault " - well, yes it is, it's the responsibility of the people who make the events/edits/hosts of the events to update these things
Edit RuneScape:Events Team/Archive is also on the list for people to edit, although that is for after the event has occurred.
"We also shouldn't be relying on Reddit and our in-game clan chat as the main source of advertisement for ET, when we get so many visitors on the wiki each day." - well in an ideal world, no we wouldn't, but we've tried a ton of different things advertising on the wiki wise (obviously front page, navbar, I think the bubble, and sidebar as well) and these are still the most popular sources of advertising. I'm inclined to believe that people don't come to the wiki to see our community things, and mostly block out anything that isn't the guide/page/whatever thing they're reading - unlike Reddit and the CC. I don't see why this is a bad thing. We also use Twitter (inconsistently) and Discord - maybe this is the place for a discussion to happen about an opt-in role to be pinged for our events?
- Strong oppose point 1 - no lol
- Support point 2 - if I'm honest, I'm not really sure why we added the Google calendar in the first place.
- A note to this would be that some events are specifically aimed towards Australians, so idk how they feel about UTC being used for such events
- Another note about updating dynamically - can this be used to automatically update the individual event pages (or vice versa)?
- Support point 3 - of course, why not
- Sidenote, is there not a way this can be done for the community sub-items in the navigation menu? I wasn't aware that you "took the initiative" to remove them (even though it's good to have when kept up to date, current updates are often updated so I can't see why this can't be)
- Sure? point 4 - sure? I feel like this is more personal preference as I think (?) I mixed things around a bit wording-wise when I advertised events on Reddit - e.g., pretty sure I did something like "The Runescape Wiki will be hosting a [name] event [at time/in x hours]!" , which is also fine. "Check the page to confirm your timezone and requirements!" is definitely unnecessary.
- Another point about Reddit posts, I don't think it's necessary for two to be posted for each event. We already know that Reddit think they're spammy, so having 4(!) each weekend doesn't help our case - one on the day of the event (3? 6?) hours prior is plenty.
Although these are all certainly improvements, and there is a lot to update, the improvements will still need editing, and ultimately it is down to whom I said earlier (people who make the events/edits/hosts) to keep everything up-to-date.19:27, April 15, 2018 (UTC)
|“||Another note about updating dynamically - can this be used to automatically update the individual event pages (or vice versa)?||”|
- Yes, in the same way that money making guide works. And regarding the nav menu, no it's not really possible to have that be dynamic, and the reason I removed the sub-items is because people just weren't updating it. I'd rather just have a link to the 'events' page that has the correct information than misleading sub-items. We have to remember that the nav can only be edited by admins, not ET, so it'll be updated much less than RS:ET.
- With regards to your point about the improvements still needing editing, yeah I agree, but by taking some steps we can consolidate information rather than having many different pages needing an update, reducing the work on ET and providing an easier experience for those wanting to attend events. 21:53, April 15, 2018 (UTC)
- I'd like to comment/expand on a few more things here, Star.
- "...unlike Reddit and the CC." and "...We also use Twitter (inconsistently) and Discord."
- To be honest, I'd like to push for more advertisement in the CC. Normal ET members cannot add to the noticeboard, and have to ask someone else to do it for them, so they can be a bit annoying to get set up. A push to add things to the noticeboard would be nice, since CC advertisement tends to draw a few more people.
- I think the same goes for Twitter! I'd love to have more consistent advertising on twitter, but it suffers from the same problem as the noticeboard; ET members have to go through someone else, so it's a bit of a pain, or they forget to ask.
- I definitely support a role for pinging people who wish to be notified about events! That would be awesome!
- "We already know that Reddit think they're spammy, so having 4(!) each weekend doesn't help our case - one on the day of the event"
- Just for posterity's sake, to echo what I've said before, I don't think it's so much that the users on Reddit think its spammy. It's unlikely that the same people are seeing both advertisements for the same event. Since it's links to the same website, coming from the same group of people, with similar titles, I think it's Reddit's anti-spam/anti-bot mechanism working its magic, since we did have quite a few upvotes after a lull in advertisement.
- In any case, you are correct that we shouldn't do the second reddit post, especially if we're taking advantage of other avenues for advertisement. User:King kolton9/Signature 22:13, April 15, 2018 (UTC)