Changes: Forum:Unblock AnselaJonla

Revision as of 00:08, 1 June 2015

Forums: Yew Grove > Unblock AnselaJonla

Over the past few months, I have come to realise that my previous behaviour on the RuneScape Wiki was unacceptable. There were users on here that I wasn't treating with any respect at all, and I deserved the block I received for my behaviour.

I would like to take this opportunity to apologise to those users, especially Ozuzanna, The Mol Man, Leon Art, Italay90, and Just Cute. My attitude towards you in particular, was wrong and should never have existed in the first place. I also want to apologise to the admins who were forced to mediate the disputes I caused and the problems I created.

At this time, I am requesting an unblock from editing. I do not want to be unbanned from chat currently. AnselaJonla 23:05, May 29, 2015 (UTC)

At this time I have no stance on this. @Gaz#7521 23:13, May 29, 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

Comment - For reference, original block thread: Forum:Problems with AnselaJonla v3 --Liquid^Talk 23:15, May 29, 2015 (UTC)

Support - I'm in favor of second chances, especially since it's been something like eight months and it seems that Ansela has recognized her previous behavior was not acceptable and is proactive about not putting herself into situations in Special:Chat where issues may arise. I would temper this with the note that if this is successful and she is unblocked, it should be clear that further violations will not be tolerated and will result in immediate blocks. --Liquid^Talk 23:18, May 29, 2015 (UTC)

I would like to dispute the fact that this would be her "second" chance. She has previously been blocked 6 times for similar behavior (UTP violations, edit warring, etc.), which is what eventually resulted in the final few block threads. As you can note from your link, there were 3 such block threads. In every single one of the threads you linked, those who opposed her being blocked hinged their argument on "she deserves another chance." Now, I'm not saying that you should necessarily feel one way or another about bringing her back. I'm instead asking: what has changed since then? Suppa chuppa ^Talk 17:58, May 30, 2015 (UTC)

I'm well aware that she's had several previous chances (I myself supported a block/desysop because it wasn't a "second" chance [1]). I see those previous chances as chances to edit the wiki. I view this thread, though, as a second chance to return to the community. It's a subtle difference, I think, but an important one. --Liquid^Talk 22:41, May 30, 2015 (UTC)

Support - Just want to recap - Been 8 months blocked, still wants to contribute after all of this, 3/5 of the conflicting users are AWOL. The fact that she still wants to help and that she wants to make sacrifices (Special:Chat block still remain) is a big +. She DOES want to help the wiki, and she still visits it every day, pings me about vandalism all the time and stuff to fix on the wiki. I believe she has changed enough to be unblocked, to have a second chance like Liquid said. User:Jr Mime/Signature _[VSTF] 23:21, May 29, 2015 (UTC)

Strong Oppose Would take sides and abused powers. Has kicked lots of people from chat, and banned people. I believe the punishment fits the crime. I'd support at least a 2 year ban. MaceyPants 23:27, May 29, 2015 (UTC)

I think it's safe to say you have no idea what's going on. Either what she will have/do when she's back, or what she was gone for in the first place. MolMan 23:28, May 29, 2015 (UTC)

Thanks,the mol man I really appreciate your feedback, it really help! I will look a little closer at all the things you pointed out! Thanks again! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Maceypants (talk).

She doesn't say she wants power back, she just wants to help the wiki as I see it. Furthermore, she said she wants to stay banned in chat. User:Jr Mime/Signature _[VSTF] 23:30, May 29, 2015 (UTC)

Thanks,jr mime I really appreciate your feedback, it really help! I will look a little closer at all the things you pointed out! Thanks again! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Maceypants (talk).

"Has kicked lots of people from chat, and banned people." What's wrong with using rights bestowed upon them? – Ozank Cx 23:49, May 29, 2015 (UTC)

Thanks,ozuzanna I really appreciate your feedback, it really help! I will look a little closer at all the things you pointed out! Thanks again! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Maceypants (talk).

No problem, I'm glad all the things I pointed out have been so helpful to you, and appreciate your genuine thanking! – Ozank Cx 23:52, May 29, 2015 (UTC)

o.o User:Urbancowgurl777/Signature 17:44, May 30, 2015 (UTC)

Support - Per Liquid and Mime Star ^Talk 23:29, May 29, 2015 (UTC)

Support - Coming from someone who previously had conflict with said user, I now believe that Ansela has improved in her attitude towards others and deserves another chance considering the time passed and the fact she PMs me and other users about RSW edits that should be reverted despite not being able to revert them themselves. I've been in somewhat contact with her for a good few month now and she seems like she's changed, as well as genuinely apoligising for her actions in the past against me. A lot of the aggro happened in S:C so if she's willing to accept a chat ban and unblock then I think it's the right move to unblock her for now as she made many good edits towards the wiki. – Ozank Cx 23:31, May 29, 2015 (UTC)

Weak support - Regardless of previous policy changes, confrontations, and aggressiveness, a user who wishes to contribute to the community in a respectable sense should not be prohibited from doing so. If Ansela is able to maintain civil relations and acknowledges constructive criticism (implied in her apology), I don't see any problems. --クールネシ^トーク 00:10, May 30, 2015 (UTC)

Weak support - At the time, I was one of the administrators, mentioned in AnselaJonla's user talk message, who often saw the talk page messages she left to others and stepped in to mediate her communications. She did sometimes seek mediation in Chat as well, with lines such as "someone tell person's name this for me please, or it will get ugly".

Being nothing more than a neutral observer now, I cannot support this as strongly as the current community.

Firstly, I understand that the community has decided that she should not stay a sysop before she was blocked.

Not being a sysop or chat moderator means she also can't undo the requested chat ban on herself. The request for staying banned from Chat shows restraint. Apologising to the people whose talk pages received her rude messages also shows remorse. ~~And then the fact that this unblock request is made 7 months after the block makes it more likely that she has changed than if it were made in the following days or weeks.~~

However, given AnselaJonla's actions outside of Chat and the particularly egregious messages she left to users, both in talk pages, user talk pages and snappy edit summaries, I feel that the community should also decide, if she should get unblocked, whether this is a clean slate (with the usual number of warnings to start) or a last chance as an editor. I will assume good faith, however, and support her unblocking.

a proofreader ▸

00:36, May 30, 2015 (UTC)

Her having continued to contribute by proxy during that time weakens the argument that 7 months have passed since her last contribution. It may have additionally posed procedural problems, i.e. block evasion, per Shockstorm. However, if all the contributions were vetted by the people she contacted, and they resulted in no violations of any policy for them, and if Ozuzanna and Jr Mime have been in contact with her and have seen her behaviour radically change off-wiki, then those will be my new reasons to continue supporting. a proofreader ▸ 20:34, May 30, 2015 (UTC)

Support - on the grounds that she gets banned immediately again if she starts acting like before. Eight months is enough time for a person to change, so here's to hoping that she won't. bad_fetus^talk 00:41, May 30, 2015 (UTC)

Support - Chat and the wiki are separate things and should be. She was banned from the wiki (and chat) mostly for chat behavior. --User:Saftzie/Signature 02:17, May 30, 2015 (UTC)

Support - Per Liquid. Temu jin 05:03, May 30, 2015 (UTC)

Support - If Ansela feels that she will now be able to interact with other editors civilly, avoiding the kind of behaviour that led to her being blocked before, then I support her being unblocked. Aside from this behaviour, Ansela made a great deal of positive edits to the wiki and I would like to see her given the chance to do this again. IsobelJ 08:56, May 30, 2015 (UTC)

Support - Ansela was a good editor and I think the main reason she was blocked was because of her behavior in Special:Chat. If she wants to have that block kept up, I am perfectly fine with her returning. ThePsionic 09:04, May 30, 2015 (UTC)

Support - People change over time. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Rhys ^Talk 09:23, May 30, 2015 (UTC)

Support - I'm willing to make a leap of faith. Ansela was never one to be dishonest, from what I remember anyway, so I can believe her apology is genuine, especially given Ozuzanna's comment about ingame contact. Obviously RS:BLOCK still applies and I don't want to go down the route of blocking via discussion, so I think it's reasonable to consider this a last chance. User:Cqm/Signature

If you mean her being in contact with me regarding letting me know of inferior edits, it was actually in another wiki chat (CC) not in-game. – Ozank Cx 11:26, May 30, 2015 (UTC)

And believe me, it's not only 1 message, it's a bunch per week. User:Jr Mime/Signature _[VSTF] 12:46, May 30, 2015 (UTC)

Support - I opposed a permanent block in the first place. Eight months seems enough. 5-x ^Talk 14:08, May 30, 2015 (UTC)

Question for Ansela - What do you plan to do if you have your editing privileges restored? I think we all know there were several areas that you were very strong in, but also those you were unfortunately weak in. How do you see yourself behaving in these areas (both strong and weak)? And give it an honest though: What do you still need to improve on? MolMan 14:29, May 30, 2015 (UTC)

I just want to do anti-vandalism, image work, spelling/grammar edits, and maybe work on new release pages after updates. Those are things that should, all being well, cause little to no conflict with other users.

As for my weaknesses, I know I struggle with communicating ideas to other users. I intend to limit my use of talk pages, and I will endeavour to mostly use the warning/information templates that exist on the wiki, some of which I created specifically to alleviate my issues regarding phrasing and tone. Edit summaries, my other main weakness outside of chat, will also be something I'll try to be better with; limiting myself to the facts of the edit, instead of my opinions will be my main goal there.

I still need to work on "live" communication, I feel. It is for that reason that I have requested the chat ban remain; I do not wish to put myself back into chat, where my temper will get the better of me at some point.

AnselaJonla

14:49, May 30, 2015 (UTC)

This was delivered in revision 13710455 by Jr Mime, and nothing on User talk:AnselaJonla as of 2015-05-29 23:05 UTC, which was the latest as of this new delivery, corresponds to it. Please clarify who wrote the text. a proofreader ▸ 19:30, May 30, 2015 (UTC)

I have tried contacting her, and she will post on her talk page when she's here. User:Jr Mime/Signature _[VSTF] 19:35, May 30, 2015 (UTC)

See here. User:Jr Mime/Signature _[VSTF] 19:38, May 30, 2015 (UTC)

Question for Ansela - Pages being written for new updates were one of your main sources of conflict. You were constantly enraged at people adding things with bad spelling and grammar, uploading duplicate images and creating edit conflicts. These are all things that happen during the period of hectic editing until a page stabilises. Right now, you have all the time in the world to think, but in this hectic editing environment, you will react differently.

How do you feel you have changed in this regard? a proofreader ▸ 20:34, May 30, 2015 (UTC)

I've been involved in the last few release updates on the Dragon Cave wiki. These are a lot more infrequent than RuneScape's updates, it's true, but I've learned to just shrug off minor mistakes and fix them where I can, and to accept that in the rush of edits following an update a certain number of edit conflicts are to be expected. I've especially learnt to ignore bad filenames, as they are inevitable when there are new editors involved, who don't know how to name a file.

AnselaJonla

21:00, May 30, 2015 (UTC)

Neutral - I honestly don't have an opinion. I would perhaps support per Chess on the grounds that she would be instantly banned the second she shows any signs of her previous behavior. I don't care how minor it is, we are not going to play that game ever again. User:Urbancowgurl777/Signature 17:44, May 30, 2015 (UTC)

The fact that it's been 8 months and she is still interested is exactly what bothers me. She wasn't able to move on, and it gives me the impression that this whole time she's just been waiting and waiting until the right moment when she could get unblocked and continue where she left off. I've thought more about this and I do have an opinion. I oppose an unblock because I don't believe anything good will come out of it. She's had more chances than any person deserves and she blew every single one of them despite the lengthy block times. Sure, she would be good for a few weeks or so, but she always returned back to her former self because that is the kind person she is.

She will never be ready to return here until she changes. She hasn't given me anything to think that she has changed. Okay, so she understand why she was blocked, but that was never an issue. She has outright told me she knows what she did was wrong but she didn't care because they deserved it. I want her to move on and get help, not to edit the wiki from behind the scenes and continue right from where she left off. TIME is not the problem. If she has come back after EIGHT months and still has the same attitude, which I assume since she has not said she changed, then a block length of any amount of time will not help her. User:Urbancowgurl777/Signature 18:21, May 30, 2015 (UTC)

Comment - Regarding how she contacted others to make edits for her - that's a bit concerning. Requesting edits to be made while being blocked is generally considered to be ban evasion. That sort of behavior shows that someone isn't willing to respect the rules and unblocking procedures in the first place. --Shockstorm (talk) 18:31, May 30, 2015 (UTC)

She wasn't forcing us to do the edits for her, she just linked them to us. Not "Please undo this edit for me". I could have refused if I wanted, and I don't see anything wrong with prompts for antivandalism. – Ozank Cx 18:36, May 30, 2015 (UTC)

So your saying she shouldn't have poked us the vandalism and bad edits she found on her own while visiting the wiki? She isn't vandalising or anything, just helping the community remove vandalism. User:Jr Mime/Signature _[VSTF] 18:37, May 30, 2015 (UTC)

No, I didn't say anything like that. I'm simply pointing out that she has asked people to make edits for her. As Mime Jr. said above about the frequency of her messages: "And believe me, it's not only 1 message, it's a bunch per week". This calls into question her willingness to accept her block on this wiki. --Shockstorm (talk) 21:21, May 30, 2015 (UTC)

Asked? No, she's merely posted revision ids to our PMs at times. – Ozank Cx 21:25, May 30, 2015 (UTC)

Neutral - Ansela has contacted me over time about reverting vandalism/blocking someone on RS (for example). The fact that her hostile tone seems imminent tells me maybe she hasn't changed, yet. Haidro ^(talk) 11:52, May 31, 2015 (UTC)

Where's the imminent hostile tone? "idiot" is hardly hostile

Oil4 ^Talk 15:50, May 31, 2015 (UTC)

It's kind of subjective to me, there's no context to the conversation or the incident itself. User:Cqm/Signature

Support - From in-game conversations I know she is genuinely annoyed by grammatical mistakes, vandalism, etc. and will, as she has in the past, effectively deal with those kind of things. As long as she, as intended, stays away from the chat and is civil on talk pages and in edit summaries, all should be fine. Ansela is a valuable asset to the wiki community - if she doesn't let her temper get the better of her, we're good. Fsw e1 17:14, May 31, 2015 (UTC)

Comment - I will be honest here. I am not sure what to think, for I may be incorrect in my thinking. But personally, I would like to see you back. Neutralino (talk) 18:15, May 31, 2015 (UTC)

Comment Regardless of being productive in the community previously. She was given 2 warnings, one with a "If you don't stop you will have your admin power removed", along with a "you get a 2 week block". She disregarded both of those and continued being toxic for the community. Even if she "is ready" to be back in the community, I believe the block should remain as a punitive punishment rather than a reform opportunity. On a second note, she was still communicating with current administrator lackeys. This isn't a matter of "Well they didn't have to do what she said" but a "she doesn't understand she was blocked". IF she is unbanned due to incompetence for how a punishment works, I would say after her first offense, back to the gulag of block. TL;DR: She still needs to have her punishment of a ban. MaceyPants 18:26, May 31, 2015 (UTC)

>lackeys

>gulag

kek MolMan 18:27, May 31, 2015 (UTC)

Questions for Ansela:

What made you contact other users regarding vandalism? For ease, I'm assuming it was just vandalism from here on. If not let me know :)
What kind of edit would typically cause you to contact someone? Was it blatant vandalism, or were there times it was more ambiguous or perhaps a misinformed/confused editor?
How did you communicate the vandalism to users? Was it always revision ids as mentioned above, or could it be more detailed?
Who would you contact about vandalism on the wiki if you saw it?

User:Cqm/Signature @Cqm

After I took a break of ~3 months from RuneScape, I came back and when looking for things on the wiki, sometimes I'd see vandalism sitting there untouched for some time. If I realised that it just hadn't been noticed for some reason, I'd poke someone about it.

Usually it would be blatant vandalism. Sometimes it would be because an edit confused me, such as when I noticed some wikilinks added to character names in the most recent lore.

I communicate with Mime and Ozu on Community Central mostly, or via in-game pm with sysops if neither of them are in CC chat. For the former I post revision differences and the latter I mention page names. I try not to phrase it as a demand, but I accept that sometimes it probably comes across as such.

AnselaJonla

00:01, June 1, 2015 (UTC)

Comment - Over Christmas I was working at a distribution centre as a picker/packer. While there I encountered a very unpleasant woman and I had the nasty realisation that I was turning into her, if I wasn't her already. She was snobby, rude, and pushy for no reason at all. I saw the way people tried to avoid working with or near her after a while. I didn't want to work near her, even before she threatened to hit me. And I realised I didn't want to be her. I had to change.

I didn't have that much time for the internet in those months, but I was working closely with people. I began to curb my temper, and to walk away from a situation, requesting a section change if necessary, if I felt myself starting to get too angry or annoyed. By working with people for whom English was a second or third language, I gained patience and acceptance that not everyone has the ability or knowledge to be good at English, and I should just shrug off mistakes and, where it is acceptable, correct them. Some of the best conversations I had there were studded with things like "Ah, how you say?" and "What is word for that?"

I'm no longer working there, but I've continued to try and apply those changes online. As some of you may know, Community Central chat can be somewhat of a madhouse at times, with conversations and arguments about the randomest things possible, but I've honestly tried to keep out of conflict in there.

I wouldn't be requesting an unblock if I didn't think I had changed and matured. AnselaJonla 00:01, June 1, 2015 (UTC)

@@ Line 13: / Line 13: @@
 At this time I have no stance on this. {{Signatures/Gaz Lloyd}} 23:13, May 29, 2015 (UTC)
-'''Update''' -
-<div style="border: 2px green dashed; margin-left: 1.5em; padding:2px;">
-Over Christmas I was working at a distribution centre as a picker/packer. While there I encountered a very unpleasant woman and I had the nasty realisation that I was turning into her, if I wasn't her already. She was snobby, rude, and pushy for no reason at all. I saw the way people tried to avoid working with or near her after a while. ''I'' didn't want to work near her, even before she threatened to hit me. And I realised I didn't ''want'' to be her. I ''had'' to change.
-I didn't have that much time for the internet in those months, but I was working closely with people. I began to curb my temper, and to walk away from a situation, requesting a section change if necessary, if I felt myself starting to get too angry or annoyed. By working with people for whom English was a second or third language, I gained patience and acceptance that not everyone has the ability or knowledge to be good at English, and I should just shrug off mistakes and, where it is acceptable, correct them. Some of the best conversations I had there were studded with things like "Ah, how you say?" and "What is word for that?"
-I'm no longer working there, but I've continued to try and apply those changes online. As some of you may know, Community Central chat can be somewhat of a madhouse at times, with conversations and arguments about the randomest things possible, but I've honestly tried to keep out of conflict in there.
-I wouldn't be requesting an unblock if I didn't think I had changed and matured. {{Signatures/AnselaJonla}} 00:01, June 1, 2015 (UTC)
-</div>
 ==Discussion==
 '''Comment''' - For reference, original block thread: [[Forum:Problems with AnselaJonla v3]] {{Signatures/Liquidhelium}} 23:15, May 29, 2015 (UTC)
@@ Line 123: / Line 113: @@
 * Who would you contact about vandalism on the wiki if you saw it?
 {{User:Cqm/Signature|22:04, 31 May 2015 (UTC)}}
+@Cqm
 :After I took a break of ~3 months from RuneScape, I came back and when looking for things on the wiki, sometimes I'd see vandalism sitting there untouched for some time. If I realised that it just hadn't been noticed for some reason, I'd poke someone about it.
 :Usually it would be blatant vandalism. Sometimes it would be because an edit confused ''me'', such as when I noticed some wikilinks added to character names in the most recent lore.
 :I communicate with Mime and Ozu on Community Central mostly, or via in-game pm with sysops if neither of them are in CC chat. For the former I post revision differences and the latter I mention page names. I try not to phrase it as a demand, but I accept that sometimes it probably comes across as such. {{Signatures/AnselaJonla}} 00:01, June 1, 2015 (UTC)
+'''Comment''' - Over Christmas I was working at a distribution centre as a picker/packer. While there I encountered a very unpleasant woman and I had the nasty realisation that I was turning into her, if I wasn't her already. She was snobby, rude, and pushy for no reason at all. I saw the way people tried to avoid working with or near her after a while. ''I'' didn't want to work near her, even before she threatened to hit me. And I realised I didn't ''want'' to be her. I ''had'' to change.
+I didn't have that much time for the internet in those months, but I was working closely with people. I began to curb my temper, and to walk away from a situation, requesting a section change if necessary, if I felt myself starting to get too angry or annoyed. By working with people for whom English was a second or third language, I gained patience and acceptance that not everyone has the ability or knowledge to be good at English, and I should just shrug off mistakes and, where it is acceptable, correct them. Some of the best conversations I had there were studded with things like "Ah, how you say?" and "What is word for that?"
+I'm no longer working there, but I've continued to try and apply those changes online. As some of you may know, Community Central chat can be somewhat of a madhouse at times, with conversations and arguments about the randomest things possible, but I've honestly tried to keep out of conflict in there.
+I wouldn't be requesting an unblock if I didn't think I had changed and matured. {{Signatures/AnselaJonla}} 00:01, June 1, 2015 (UTC)