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Forums: Yew Grove > Universal drops revisited
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This thread was archived on 26 January 2014 by Suppa chuppa.
Part 1: Forum:Remove universal drops

Barely over a month may seem like too short a time to be revisiting a topic, but with the latest bullshit that TonyBest100 has copied over, it's suddenly become very relevant. A one sentence synopsis of this update's relevance: Spin tickets are being removed and replaced with keys.

Here's some numbers to show how large of a change this is:

  • There are 1323 pages in Category:Bestiary
  • 852 monsters in total use {{DropsLine}}
    • So 471 don't use it
  • Currently, 248 (give or take) monsters have a {{DropsLine}} for spin tickets

I'm not sure how good of a guess those numbers can make on their own, but I'm certain at least 1,200+ pages could use a {{DropsLine}} for spin tickets; so almost 1,000 to update for us.

Here's some rhetorical questions you should consider:

  • Because we'll definitely have to change spin tickets in drops tables to keys, shouldn't we be adding the new drop to tables that are missing it as well?
  • Isn't it implicit that monsters drop spin tickets/keys? I mean, almost literally everything does. There are also certainly more monsters to come that will drop the item as well.
  • If it's a given that you can obtain this as a drop? Does it need to be listed? I don't think spin tickets (or any other universal drops) are even programmed into drops tables; I would assume a separate mechanic determines the drops because:
    1. They are dropped along with every other drop, so they are most certainly not part of any main drop tables.
    2. Observation leads to the conclusion that these drops include a time release in their mechanic; i.e., if you just got one as a drop, there is a period of time that must pass before you even have a chance to get another.

This seemed more or less irrelevant back in January, because it seemed like this rule would only ever end up applying to temporary additions like spirit wolf blood or baubles. It's a different story now, and unless this goes down the same road as spirit gems (which I doubt it will), this update and our decision here will affect a whole ton of pages permanently.

Something needs to be done. Seriously. I can only think of 3 viable options, but maybe there's more, so don't hold your tongues:

  1. Remove the drops from everywhere. A good idea because we can assume that, unless stated otherwise, the drop is there on the table. You can't argue too strongly that this removal will hurt because:
    1. We already don't have this on an overwhelming majority of pages that "should"
    2. We don't benefit from being explicit about the implicit
  2. Create a template with the same purpose as {{Rare drop table}} for universal drops. This is honestly a really good idea, and I'm ashamed I opposed the idea at first. The best part about this, is it will allow for immediate change across every page with a single edit. For example: what if we had already implemented this for the spin ticket? Then the Treasure Hunter update would be no big deal at all. A single, trivial edit on the aforementioned template would have most every page up to date. We can also allow ourselves to include temporary drops because a single, simple edit would update all pages, and a simple, single revert would remove it when it's gone. Good job, fartwall, I hope this idea gets the consensus.
  3. Update every page statically, no template or anything and everything will have explicit mention of the universal drops. I don't like this at all, because:
    1. It's assuming this change to the Squeal is permanent. What if the Treasure Hunter update doesn't meet Jagex's expectations and they reimplement the Squeal 2 months later? We'd have had to make over 1,000 edits just to add the drop everywhere and another thousand just to revert it.
    2. We doesn't have the option to include temporary stuff. We may find little reason to actually include them, but if we use fartwall's idea, we can add them in so easily there'd be no reason to oppose. On the other hand, if we did want to add them for some reason, it'd be 2,000+ edits just to add then remove it.
    3. It's not immediate. With fartwall's template, we'd only have to add it to pages once, after that, we're all set. Any change to the template would be immediately visible on pages that use it if we assume a fresh cache. On the other hand, explicit {{DropsLine}}s take time to add to/remove from page after page, even with a bot.
I think it's genuinely a bad idea, and only really mentioned it so I could debase it and convince you it's not worth it.

Again, something needs to be done. I really thing the universal drops template trumps all other ideas. It's a once off edit to pages, after which, large scale updating of articles is simple. It also keeps us documenting even what might seem like the most useless, implicit information. So, honestly, let's just do that. Unless we decide to remove the drops all together, I may just do the template thing anyways. There's absolutely no reason not to; it has so many benefits with no meritable harm.

I guess with my adamant stance on the template over explicit {{DropsLine}}s, this can be considered more of a "notice of intent" thread than something seeking deliberation; however, I'm willing to give the "remove it" idea a second chance for discussion and will refrain from implementing a universal drops template if removal somehow ends up winning the consensus.

Discussion

But why am I bothering with a forum? The Wiki has been doing a terrible job for discussions... c'mon gais MolMan 16:22, January 20, 2014 (UTC)

Support a template - Because it'd be easy to update and stuff. Although wouldn't it only have two permanent drops on it? (Spin ticket/key and Anagogic ort) Wahisietel rejuvenated chathead Wahisietel (Talk) Quest map icon 16:29, January 20, 2014 (UTC)

No, anagogic orts are a separate mechanic. They are not dropped by literally everything. MolMan 16:30, January 20, 2014 (UTC)
Aren't they? I generally get them from whatever I kill. Also, spin tickets are dropped by all non-dungeoneering monsters with more than one drop (so more than just bones), right? Wahisietel rejuvenated chathead Wahisietel (Talk) Quest map icon 17:39, January 20, 2014 (UTC)
Some monsters that otherwise only drop bones, can drop Spin tickets (e.g. Double agent). And ort is always and only dropped together with a Rare drop table drop (see Jagex' wiki's definition of a Rare drop table; herbs have their own Rare drop table, as do seeds, etc.). Thus monsters without access to any RDT will never drop ort. IP83.101.44.209 (talk) 17:47, January 20, 2014 (UTC)

Support 3 because yolo lolwat 2 - Easiest, cleanest, fartiest. 18px-Avatar.png Fswe1 26px-Brassica_Prime_symbol.svg.png 17:11, January 20, 2014 (UTC)

Support 2 - Creating a template like the rare drops table template was immediately what popped into my head while reading this thread. Seems to be the most logical choice by far. Gets all necessary information across and is easy to manage. User:Urbancowgurl777/Signature 17:20, January 20, 2014 (UTC)

Support--Deltaslug (talk) 18:07, January 20, 2014 (UTC)

Support 2 - Keeps the pages accurate with less hassle. No chance of a few pages having wolf blood left in them for weeks after it's been removed. Law rune Samberen Nature rune 19:21, January 20, 2014 (UTC)

Support 2 - I agree that there should be a separate template for the spin token drops, as they do tend to drop alongside other drops that you would have received. Abyssal vine whip TonyBest100 Bandos chestplate 15:29, January 21, 2014 (UTC)

That argument is not applicable just to Spin tickets. Effigies, for one, are also dropped alongside normal drops; as are Clues (or at the very least Elite clues at Mutated jadinko males). IP83.101.44.209 (talk) 16:26, January 21, 2014 (UTC)
No, clues are drops of their own. Level 1 to 4, all of 'em. 18px-Avatar.png Fswe1 26px-Brassica_Prime_symbol.svg.png 08:41, January 22, 2014 (UTC)
Then how come I got Elite clue drops alongside a normal drop at Mutated jadinko males? Every time. IP83.101.44.209 (talk) 08:55, January 22, 2014 (UTC)
Tertiary drops always stack. You could get an ancient effigy, a bauble, a spin ticket, a clue scroll, a spirit gem, and a normal drop all at the same time theoretically. But it doesn't matter, so stop arguing. We're talking about universal drops, as in, dropped by literally everything outside of dungeoneering and 1 or 2 exceptions. MolMan 13:27, January 22, 2014 (UTC)

Support 2 - I wasn't expecting Jagex to change these drops so often. Now that they are doing it, a template seems like the easiest solution. Ancient talisman Oil4 Talk 19:04, January 21, 2014 (UTC)

Most serious question ever - What should the header for this list of drops be? MolMan 19:16, January 21, 2014 (UTC)

"Universal Drop Table"? "Bonus Drop Table"? Ew, no. 18px-Avatar.png Fswe1 26px-Brassica_Prime_symbol.svg.png 19:36, January 21, 2014 (UTC)
"Universal drops" Ancient talisman Oil4 Talk 20:43, January 21, 2014 (UTC)
"SoF Crap" I support universal drops. --Jlun2 (talk) 13:24, January 22, 2014 (UTC)

Closed - A template will be created for universal drops. Suppa chuppa Talk 22:25, January 26, 2014 (UTC)

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