FANDOM


Forums: Yew Grove > Updating RS:IMG
Replacement filing cabinet
This page or section is an archive.
Please do not edit the contents of this page.
This thread was archived on 31 July 2017 by Liquidhelium.

Our images policy is somewhat outdated since the release of the NXT client: the content section describes standards based upon the graphics settings that are available in the Java client. Since we are aiming to use the NXT client for images going forward, I am propose that we update this section of the policy so that the criteria are applicable in the new client. Magic logs detailIsobelJRaw rocktail detail 15:09, July 24, 2017 (UTC)

Keep

These are the criteria that I think still apply and should therefore remain in the policy as they are currently:

  • Interface
  • Stance
  • Costumes
  • Gender
  • Cutscenes
  • Equipment
  • Customisable items
  • Setup images
  • Text
  • Glitch images
  • Ground decoration

Discussion

Keep all - Magic logs detailIsobelJRaw rocktail detail 15:09, July 24, 2017 (UTC)

Keep all - per Iso Superiosity the DragonriderQuick chat button: User:Superiosity/Signature chat 05:29, July 26, 2017 (UTC)

Keep all - xHR7zpA.png6encXAo.png 14:01, July 26, 2017 (UTC)

Keep all - Abyssal vine whip TonyBest100 Bandos chestplate 18:33, July 27, 2017 (UTC)

Keep all - Completionist cape Audx the WikianRunecrafting master cape 08:01, July 29, 2017 (UTC)

Keep all - x5sQGus.png  αšΌ 𝕷𝖔𝖗𝖉 π•Έπ–†π–“π–•π–†π–Žπ–“π–™ ᚼ (t)(c) 14:41, July 30, 2017 (UTC)

Remove

These criteria are no longer applicable to taking images with NXT and therefore can be removed from the policy:

  • High detail (dates back to when RuneScape High Detail was released in 2008 and was an alternative to the pre-existing standard detail. Use common sense: when taking images graphics settings should generally be set high)
  • Fog (no longer available as an option in NXT, can adjust draw distance using common sense)
  • Water images (describes using DirectX vs. OpenGL - these options are no longer available in NXT; adjust water setting using common sense)

Discussion

Remove all - Magic logs detailIsobelJRaw rocktail detail 15:09, July 24, 2017 (UTC)

Remove all - per Iso Superiosity the DragonriderQuick chat button: User:Superiosity/Signature chat 05:29, July 26, 2017 (UTC)

Comment - Leaving draw distance to common sense isn't really working in practice; probably best to explicitly mention the draw distance should be sufficiently high or low for the entire subject and relevant surroundings to be visible, but nothing else in the background that might distract. 18px-Avatar.png Fswe1 26px-Brassica_Prime_symbol.svg.png 07:34, July 26, 2017 (UTC)

I guess I didn't exactly mean common sense - I should have called it a judgement call. Because what is relevant surroundings? What would be distracting enough to warrant decreasing draw distance? Magic logs detailIsobelJRaw rocktail detail 07:47, July 26, 2017 (UTC)
I concur, but regardless it isn't really happening. I recall the replacement FIMG nomination for the Taverley stone circle, which had too much draw distance such that WWM was distractingly visible in the background. 18px-Avatar.png Fswe1 26px-Brassica_Prime_symbol.svg.png 09:06, July 26, 2017 (UTC)
Having another area visible in the background is not distracting in my opinion, I don't think we should be reducing draw distance for this reason. Magic logs detailIsobelJRaw rocktail detail 09:22, July 26, 2017 (UTC)
If the subject at hand is the stone circle, then fog or a skybox is most definitely preferable to something else that interferes with the visibility... Since reducing draw distance takes two clicks, that's definitely worth it. 18px-Avatar.png Fswe1 26px-Brassica_Prime_symbol.svg.png 09:46, July 26, 2017 (UTC)

Remove all - I also agree that draw distance should be left to common sense xHR7zpA.png6encXAo.png 14:01, July 26, 2017 (UTC)

Remove all - I also assent with the opinions of IsobelJ and JaydenKieran concerning the draw distance policy being resigned to the judgment of the image creator. Considering that the parameters would likely be too dynamic to be able to state in particular what depth of draw distance would be preferable for each kind of subject matter, I would instead encourage placing emphasis on the content which the image is intended to represent presenting as much of the subject within the foreground as possible. (The obvious exception to this might be scenery-specific or location-specific images, which could benefit from a greater depth of draw distance by allowing as much of the location to be shown within the image.) For instance, an image of a building within Taverly should not be panned out so much that it includes parts of White Wolf Mountain and Catherby within the image. Completionist cape Audx the WikianRunecrafting master cape 08:30, July 29, 2017 (UTC)

Remove all - Per Isobel and Jayden Abyssal vine whip TonyBest100 Bandos chestplate 12:11, July 29, 2017 (UTC)

Comment on DD - As you all probably know, RS game world is set into 3 planes of existence, since most content was designed with Java client Draw Distence in mind, so stuff are relatively close together, so I think for old stuff - especially if it display something not related to the subject of the picturae (i.e the thing that have a mini-game icon on the mini-map of Naragun), I know some Jmod job was to add invisible walls but heck, even in Java in obscure quest areas you can see things that you aren't to see. So I, propose that for the "overworld" we should require max DD except maybe in some particuliar case but for the "outer world" (basicly everything that ain't on surface) should be left to common sense. x5sQGus.png  αšΌ 𝕷𝖔𝖗𝖉 π•Έπ–†π–“π–•π–†π–Žπ–“π–™ ᚼ (t)(c) 14:41, July 30, 2017 (UTC)

Additions/amendments

These sections are ones that I consider to need updating for the newer client:

Anti-aliasing

The new modes for anti-aliasing are off; MSAA; FXAA; or FXAA+MSAA. There are also quality options of low, medium, high or ultra.

Personally I see little difference when adjusting the quality of AA in NXT; however I do see a noticeable lack of AA quality when using MSAA. Therefore I propose that the new criteria be for players to use either FXAA or FXAA+MSAA when taking images. Any images uploaded without AA or with poor quality AA would be tagged using {{AA}} as before.

Discussion

Support - Magic logs detailIsobelJRaw rocktail detail 15:09, July 24, 2017 (UTC)

Comment - MSAA is better than FXAA in most cases, but MSAA does not work correctly in some places, usually evolving transparent textures, such as the leaves of the Grand Tree. In these cases, MSAA+FXAA should be used. Wahisietel rejuvenated chathead Wahisietel (Talk) Quest map icon 16:18, July 24, 2017 (UTC)

Support/oppose/comment - Like Battleben mentioned, MSAA is better than FXAA except for things like transparent textures - MSAA+FXAA does fix this, but it causes a slight blurring as well. So instead, I propose that MSAA be used by default, MSAA+FXAA where otherwise appropriate(like for transparent textures). Also just for clarity make sure AA quality is on Ultra. Superiosity the DragonriderQuick chat button: User:Superiosity/Signature chat 05:29, July 26, 2017 (UTC)

Suggestion - If MSAA is better in some situations what about allowing all three (so the criteria would be "have AA on")? Magic logs detailIsobelJRaw rocktail detail 07:47, July 26, 2017 (UTC)

MSAA is always better except for the situations mentioned, and FXAA (by itself) never, so the policy should probably mention that, allow all three but discourage FXAA. 18px-Avatar.png Fswe1 26px-Brassica_Prime_symbol.svg.png 12:07, July 26, 2017 (UTC)

Support. Allow MSAA and MSAA+FXAA, disallow FXAA - We need to maintain a standard here. xHR7zpA.png6encXAo.png 14:01, July 26, 2017 (UTC)

Lighting detail

Area lighting is much more dramatic in NXT. This section has already been updated to mention skyboxes. I think that to bring this section completely up to date we should remove references to high/low lighting detail. The guidelines would be:

  • Area images to use the area's natural skybox/lighting.
  • Use a daystone or the midday skybox to obtain neutral lighting for single subject images.

Discussion

Comment - With the second point I think there is some room for discussion: should use of the daystone/midday skybox be mandatory for all single subject images or should it be required only when lighting interferes with an images' subject and is distracting/obscures details? Magic logs detailIsobelJRaw rocktail detail 15:09, July 24, 2017 (UTC)

Support/comment - Support the daystone skybox policy. When it comes to lighting deatail (not the skyboxes) and I think its best just to use common sense. Superiosity the DragonriderQuick chat button: User:Superiosity/Signature chat 05:29, July 26, 2017 (UTC)

Support - Per Super, encourage usage of daystone or midday skybox for all things that require transparency etc. and natural lighting for locations. Unless the natural lighting is much too dark (e.g. see Shattered Worlds FIMG nomination), in which case use common sense to turn off LD or use a different skybox etc. 18px-Avatar.png Fswe1 26px-Brassica_Prime_symbol.svg.png 07:43, July 26, 2017 (UTC)

It's disappointing that we apparently now have an image featured that doesn't even properly represent how content looks in game, and I don't want to see this become the norm for images on the wiki. We should be capturing images of how areas actually look in game: area lighting/skybox is a part of how areas look now. Changing the skybox because we don't like how the natural lighting looks is silly and I am opposed to us putting in any condition where this can be done. Magic logs detailIsobelJRaw rocktail detail 09:22, July 26, 2017 (UTC)
The image featured does have its natural lighting. :P Anyway, I disagree; an image that's e.g. extraordinarily dark is hardly better than no image at all. Artificially increasing brightness/contrast in GIMP or simply changing the graphics settings has been common practice here. 18px-Avatar.png Fswe1 26px-Brassica_Prime_symbol.svg.png 12:11, July 26, 2017 (UTC)
I actually really dislike that we are using images, let alone featuring them, when they aren't representative of their true in-game nature. I wasn't aware of the FIMG nomination, but looking at it now, the photo looks horrendous. It doesn't accurately display what it looks like in-game. We are a wiki, not an art club, we don't need to manually be adjusting brightness/contrast to please people when it looks nothing like that in-game. I would even go far enough to nominate it for delisting, but considering it was only featured today it feels like it would be silly xHR7zpA.png6encXAo.png 14:01, July 26, 2017 (UTC)

Support - Remove all references to LD, use natural lighting where possible, neutral lighting for single subjects using the daystone or midday skybox. xHR7zpA.png6encXAo.png 14:01, July 26, 2017 (UTC)

Minimaps

Having worked on maps recently these are the criteria I've used for them:

  • Map images should be taken from the world map, using 100% map zoom.
  • Images showing something's location should be cropped to 250x250px. A blue translucent marker 75x75px should be used to indicate the location.
  • Images should only be taken from the minimap if it is not possible to obtain them from the world map. Player, npc and item dots should be edited out of the image and it should be marked up in the same way as images using the world map.

Discussion

Support - Magic logs detailIsobelJRaw rocktail detail 15:09, July 24, 2017 (UTC)

Support - per Iso Superiosity the DragonriderQuick chat button: User:Superiosity/Signature chat 05:29, July 26, 2017 (UTC)

Support - I think it would be useful to use less lenient language with this part of the policy though (must be instead of should be). I think this is more important for the marker, on our current policy it says:

β€œ (...)with a maximum dimension of 75x75 for the blue marker ”

We should make sure that they are all at 75x75, rather than using 75x75 as a maximum. And at risk of being a little pedantic, we should clarify that we mean pixels there too as a unit of measurement. xHR7zpA.png6encXAo.png 14:01, July 26, 2017 (UTC)

Any other discussion

Java image template

While we're here anyway, I propose to only use {{Java image}} for location/scenery images that would actually benefit from NXT graphics. When it comes to chatheads, NPCs/monsters (that don't benefit from improved NXT textures or whatever), DIIs, equipped item images and animations, allow either, on the ground that there is no difference. The exception is chatheads, which actually look better in Java, so we could even prefer Java for those kinds of images (note that Java might be discontinued in a few years' time or so - all the more reason to 'get it while we can'). In all cases, use common sense. Currently, these images are to be tagged as requiring retaking, which is an utter waste of time (e.g. File:Hans.png) - time better spent retaking images that have actual flaws.

I doubt this will get much support since some people seem to have become some kind of NXT zombies that abandoned common sense (don't kill the messenger), but can't say I didn't try. Cheers, 18px-Avatar.png Fswe1 26px-Brassica_Prime_symbol.svg.png 08:37, July 28, 2017 (UTC)

Comment - I would like to point out that it's not might, Java will be discontinued and I doubt it will take years, if not this year, it'll probably be next year. @Fussy, Java might look better, but eventually NXT will be the only client, and then the images will always look like that. Salix of Prifddinas (Talk) 08:55, July 28, 2017 (UTC)

So as I said, all the more reason to get as many Java chatheads as possible before they're discontinued. :D But that aside, the other subjects mentioned look exactly the same in both Java and NXT so it doesn't matter. 18px-Avatar.png Fswe1 26px-Brassica_Prime_symbol.svg.png 09:06, July 28, 2017 (UTC)
Having discussed this to death already, NXT is preferred now for all times of images. Therefore {{Java image}} was created and is being used to indicate when an image has been taken in java so that it can be replaced. There is no reason we should be "getting java images while we can"; this is against the already established consensus. I am opposed to any change either in the current stance on NXT or use of the template. Jagex are still set on discontinuing the java client in the future and we need to be prepared for this. The more images we can take in NXT now, the less are going to look obsoleted when NXT becomes the only client available. Whether we objectively think images look better or worse in NXT/Java isn't relevant: the aim of the wiki is to document how things are in-game and sooner or later NXT will be the only version of how things look in-game. Magic logs detailIsobelJRaw rocktail detail 12:24, July 28, 2017 (UTC)
Our aim is to display how the models look; if by whatsoever graphical bug all chatheads suddenly became purple in NXT, we wouldn't be uploading that either. But, chatheads aside, the other categories of images don't discriminate between Java or NXT, so to speak. Encouraging retaking literally thousands of those images with absolutely no discernible difference between versions is plain stupid... 18px-Avatar.png Fswe1 26px-Brassica_Prime_symbol.svg.png 13:21, July 28, 2017 (UTC)
If there is a graphical bug in NXT we wouldn't take an image of it and upload it, as our image policy states that NXT versions of images must be materially equivalent to Java ones. Images taken in Java are simply discontinued. They will need to be replaced at some point whether you like it or not, and having a template/category encouraging this is useful. xHR7zpA.png6encXAo.png 13:42, July 28, 2017 (UTC)
I'm sorry but are you quite mad? They will not. NPCs etc. look EXACTLY the same. You cannot be seriously claiming we should aim to retake thousands of images with ABSOLUTELY NO benefit whatsoever. >_> Nobody in their right mind would embark on that, mate... No, but really, what the hell? 18px-Avatar.png Fswe1 26px-Brassica_Prime_symbol.svg.png 07:12, July 29, 2017 (UTC)
We should have images on the wiki that represent how things look in-game. If an image taken in the Java client does not represent how the game looks in NXT, it should be replaced. I can't even count the number of times that this discussion has been had and I struggle to see why it is such a difficult thing to understand xHR7zpA.png6encXAo.png 13:13, July 29, 2017 (UTC)
Some of them probably don't look any different and won't need retaking, but I'd rather tag them all and review that myself for each image (or someone else can if they feel like retaking the images in that category). Magic logs detailIsobelJRaw rocktail detail 08:07, July 29, 2017 (UTC)
My two cents on this issue: (disclaimer: I hate NXT, though granted I can't tell apart NXT vs Java images. I hate NXT cause it won't stop fucking with my camera angle and it's really really annoying.) I never really thought of the template as "encouraging" us to retake images. I see it more as categorizing a particular set of images as having been taken in the Java client. Yes, I know what the template says, but like does anyone who works with images really pay attention to that stuff?
I really don't see the harm in keeping the template. I don't give much weight to the argument that it's a waste of time/effort to retake lots of images, since the wiki is a collection of volunteers, not an assembly factory that can direct the efforts of its users. If someone is really motivated about replacing all the Java images with NXT ones, and they're willing to put in the time and effort to do so, then we shouldn't discourage that by any means - we can't just assume they'll be willing to put in as much time and effort into some other project. Lastly, have you seen the number of pages with maintenance templates on them? I haven't really bought into the idea that the templates do much of anything. Anyone who wants to replace the images is not going to be stopped by the lack of a template, and anyone who doesn't care isn't going to be bothered by the presence of a template.
TL;DR: the template is fine. --LiquidTalk 16:38, July 30, 2017 (UTC)

Closed - Going through the list:

  • All the sections under "Keep" will be kept.
  • All the sections under "Remove" will be removed.
  • MXAA and MXAA/FXAA can both be used. FXAA images can be treated as "obsolete" (similar to how most Java images are done now).
  • Natural lighting for locations, daystone/midday for things.
  • Maps should be 250x250 100% zoom world map images with a 75x75 blue box to mark specific location; minimap images are acceptable when the world map cannot be used.

--LiquidTalk 19:52, July 31, 2017 (UTC)

Community content is available under CC-BY-SA unless otherwise noted.