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Dorgesh-Kaan Thieving and Firemaking

I can find nothing to suggest that thieving and firemaking in Dorgesh-Kaan has even been designated as a specific activity by Jagex. The page seems to have been created by someone wanting to promote this as a training method. These days it is not a popular activity for players and a walkthrough on how to do it is not at all necessary. Relevant information can already be found elsewhere e.g. Dorgesh-Kaan Average Chest, Dorgesh-Kaan Rich Chest and Dorgesh-Kaan#Thieving.

Delete - As nominator. Magic logs detailIsobelJRaw rocktail detail 12:03, April 11, 2017 (UTC)

Delete - Disnae need its ain page Template:Signatures/Ciphrius Kane 12:07, April 11, 2017 (UTC)

Aye - There is nothing to recommend keeping this. Degenret01 (talk) 12:48, April 11, 2017 (UTC)

Delete - Kill it with fire! :P Salix of Prifddinas (Talk) 13:34, April 11, 2017 (UTC)

Merge - It shouldn't have its own page. Perhaps turn it into a skill training guide? I used to train Thieving in Dorgesh-Kaan and it's pretty good for mid-level thieves. Otherwise, if all information is already on the mentioned pages, get rid of it. 18px-Avatar.png Fswe1 26px-Brassica_Prime_symbol.svg.png 16:34, April 11, 2017 (UTC)

Delet this --Sucy_orb_2.pngScuzzy BetaLuna_Nova_sigil.png 16:55, April 11, 2017 (UTC)

Delete - --Deltaslug (talk) 12:31, April 12, 2017 (UTC)

Delete - I also never hear people talk about this training method. Santa hat Powers38 おはようヾ(´・ω・`) 12:40, April 12, 2017 (UTC) Keep - See below. Santa hat Powers38 おはようヾ(´・ω・`) 18:20, April 18, 2017 (UTC)

Delete - Eww. Temujin 09:47, April 13, 2017 (UTC)

Keep Thieving info - Temujin 01:58, April 19, 2017 (UTC)

Oppose in current state - Because the information is not currently duplicated anywhere else, and it would be foolish to delete it without thoroughly making sure we're not losing anything in the process. In particular, the map and Thieving walkthrough remain useful. "...these days it is not a popular activity for players" is an entirely unconvincing argument -- I have never felt that content obsolescence is a good reason for deleting guides in these sorts of situations. It remains (more or less, modulo energy considerations) the best way to do Dorgesh-Kaan Thieving, so why not keep that information? What tends to happen in RfDs like this is, we talk about how the information could go somewhere else (or maybe even point to fragments of it in other places), which convinces other people to support deletion...but in the end, the information that was unique to that page never sticks around. Don't be fooled this time. ʞooɔ 08:20, April 14, 2017 (UTC)

I might have agreed, if the activity itself wasn't so ... inefficient. For Firemaking, it was released at a time when log prices were higher and you didn't have bonfires. Now? Yew Logs are 1 gp/xp. Yes, lightbulbs give the same rate, but hunting down a spot with a burned out spot? "XP waste". In addition, as a thieving training method, again, going into each house to steal from a chest and then move on to the next, and the chests themselves have a respawn rate (so if someone else gets to it first ... ). tl;dr - poor training method, obsolete info. --Deltaslug (talk) 13:04, April 14, 2017 (UTC)
My point is that there's a distinction between a poor training method and obsolete information. ʞooɔ 19:27, April 14, 2017 (UTC)

Comment - Of course the relevant information should be moved to the appropriate locations. Salix of Prifddinas (Talk) 19:50, April 14, 2017 (UTC)

What information do you consider to be relevant? ʞooɔ 19:57, April 14, 2017 (UTC)
I don't know to be honoust. Information about the chests seem to have their own pages, a walkthrough doesn't seem relevant for other pages, and the XP rates for the logs and light bulbs could possibly be added to a page about the light bulbs themselves. P.S. I don't take the phrase "Make X Great Again" serious, it's overused. :P Salix of Prifddinas (Talk) 21:11, April 14, 2017 (UTC)

Comment - Cook_the_chosen_commander.png --Sucy_orb_2.pngScuzzy BetaLuna_Nova_sigil.png 20:00, April 14, 2017 (UTC)

Keep/Merge - Okay, at first I was just doing this for the memes, but Cook raises a valid point. We keep historical info on this wiki for a reason, I don't see why this should explicitly be deleted - Just merge it. --Sucy_orb_2.pngScuzzy BetaLuna_Nova_sigil.png 23:34, April 14, 2017 (UTC)

Strong oppose merging walkthrough - I don't particularly care if we delete the page but for the love of god please don't merge the walkthrough onto a different page. I literally can't think of a good way to merge the walkthrough onto any other page. It's way too long to go onto the main Dorgesh Kaan page. It's not relevant enough to the chests to put onto the Average or Rich chest pages. It's not relevant enough to put on articles about the light bulbs either. It's not a good enough training method to put on the thieving or firemaking training guides. If I had to find somewhere to put the walkthrough I would probably create a subpage of Dorgesh Kaan and stick it there, which is functionally equivalent to what we have right now.

The salient point is whether the information contained in the walkthrough is relevant enough or significant enough to actually stick somewhere on the wiki. I'm inclined to believe that it is, but I do find arguments that it's not relevant or significant enough to be persuasive. Ultimately, we should either get rid of it altogether or leave it where it is - there's literally no other place that's appropriate for the walkthrough. --LiquidTalk 23:49, April 14, 2017 (UTC)

Why can't it be merged onto the training guides? It may not be the best method ever, but still pretty good at certain levels, at least Thieving (I've never done Firemaking there). It's also good to have alternatives for what is presumably almost entirely pickpocketing. As for the Firemaking training, this seems especially nice for ironmen, who might not want to chop trees beyond measure. 18px-Avatar.png Fswe1 26px-Brassica_Prime_symbol.svg.png 06:48, April 15, 2017 (UTC)
I don't think it's great at any one category (such as xp rates, afkability, profit). I'm extremely skeptical you can get 230k/hr like cook claims. I don't think training guides should be listing every possible training method, since that would make them extremely bloated. Noting a few methods that excel at one of the criteria is better. --LiquidTalk 18:14, April 15, 2017 (UTC)
Try it out! You can do two chests every 20 seconds, and each chest gives you 650 experience. ʞooɔ 19:07, April 15, 2017 (UTC)
230k/h sounds absolutely brilliant, especially at the target levels. 18px-Avatar.png Fswe1 26px-Brassica_Prime_symbol.svg.png 06:52, April 16, 2017 (UTC)
I can't believe it. I literally can't believe it. It actually does give 230k/hr. The downfall is that given respawn times only 6 people can use this at any given time (though when I was testing it I never found a world that was already looted, probably because no one trains thieving this way). Also, it's very click intensive and relies on quickhopping for maximum efficiency.
I should also point out that this isn't really pertinent to the discussion over whether or not this article should be deleted,
since the training method outlined in the article is definitely obsolete whether or not rich chests are good thieving xp as a standalone method. --LiquidTalk 03:50, April 18, 2017 (UTC)

We Made Dorgesh-Kaan Great Again - So, it turns out that looting rich chests and world-hopping at 78 Thieving is about 230,000 experience per hour, which (as far as I can tell) is the best experience until dwarf traders at level 90. Not exactly a poor training method, eh? At this point I would recommend putting a section on Thieving training about this method, while possibly also leaving up the holistic walkthrough (on the page we're discussing) that includes both Firemaking and Thieving training. ʞooɔ 17:11, April 15, 2017 (UTC)

Keep, but split into training guides - Honestly, I would not have believed it to be a good(?) training method until Cook(?) and Liquid (?) tested it (I logged on and I think they were just about finished discussing it, so going by comments here). If it is possible to achieve 230k exp/hr, then it would be good to keep and update the article, as currently, it doesn't list how to train it optimally. It gives us details about thieving in Dorgesh Kaan, but not in-depth guide (such as world hopping and list of loot obtained). I think we should split up the thieving and firemaking section though. If we assume players are going to world hop, then it doesn't make sense to add in a firemaking. I was wondering if cook can test out firemaking part too. If so, we can probably update that too. Santa hat Powers38 おはようヾ(´・ω・`) 18:20, April 18, 2017 (UTC)

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