Talk: Style guide

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Redirects

Check for similar categories and articles before creating them. We do not need similar categories such as category:slayer and category:slayer monsters and category:Slayer assignments. Nor do we need addy med and Adamantite medium helmet and addy med helm and adamant helmet (medium).

This being said, what is the policy on redirect pages which might assist in user searches? For example would redirect pages, named for common slang terms (Laws or Nats, for example) also be on the forbidden list?--Curmudgeony 06:35, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

I have reworded it in an attempt to reduce confusion. Redirects will always be appropriate (when appropriate). Hyenaste^talk 07:29, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

English Spelling

"RuneScape is british and british spelling must be used at all times." ...so why is favourite spelled favorite? User:Carralpha

I dont think British should be spelled by everbody. Many people dont know the difference so chill out. --Whiplash 15:43, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

If favourite was ever spelled favorite, it should be corrected. JalYt-Xil-Vimescarrot 17:58, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Building floor numbering

The British and European first floor is the American, Asian, and former Soviet Union second floor. It could be very confusing when using some other fan site quest guides to figure out which floor you need to be on. While it is easy to implement a British spelling for this site, it would be confusing for non-British players to remember the floor numbering system. I suggest using the following guidelines:

• Ground level or first level
• second level (instead of first floor (British) or second floor (American))
• third level and so on....
• top level or whatever its number

and going down

• basement or first lower level
• second lower level and so on... Any feedback?

See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floor_numbering Chrislee33 23:55, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Normally I'm all for sticking to the British convention, but this would be confusing as hell for any non-Brit. The clarity that comes from using American/non-Brit conventions outweighs the pact to stick to the Brit version. Basically--Brits will be able to figure out what we mean when we say first, second and third floors...but non-Brits would have a lot of trouble with ground, first, second. Especially when they're intermingled in the same article... Endasil (Talk) @ 17:41, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I recently edited both the Wizards' tower and Wizards' Guild articles to be written with British flooring numbering. However, I included in American translation only once for each floor to avoid confusion. Do you like it?, or would you a tiny template at the top stating that there are differences between the American and British Englishes instead?--64supernoob 05:25, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Jagex uses the British convention in the Knowledge Base. So, articles should follow the British convention. A template at the top of articles using floors would be a great idea. Chrislee33 06:59, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Here is [[Template:Floor]] which looks like this: . Chrislee33 07:34, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Maybe we could use something like many of the RPG games that exist, where the "ground" floor is F1, and the floor below it is BF1 (Basement Floor 1). Oddlyoko 03:14, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Capitalization

"When referring to a skill (not an action), the name of that skill should be capitalised."

That's just silly ... Why make English capitalization even more complex than it really is? The skill names are common nouns. --Paania 16:29, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Because it's done like that in-game. JalYt-Xil-Vimescarrot 16:32, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

That's not very convincing. A game publisher is hardly the epitome of language and style. --Paania 16:45, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

We're a website based on RuneScape, and the terminology is unique to RuneScape (nothing else has such things as Crafting or Smithing as nouns instead of verbs) so we use the RuneScape version. JalYt-Xil-Vimescarrot 16:58, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

No, there's nothing "unique" about such terms, and even if there were, it wouldn't warrant capitalization. (They're more like the names of sporting events, such as "cycling", "slalom" or "triathlon".) I still think this is a nonsense guideline. (/me shrugs and says goodnight :-) --Paania 22:17, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Mmm k. It's still the RuneScape use, which is why we use it. Whether their language is correct or not doesn't really apply. It's not just in-game, they use it in their letters too. And crafting could refer to anything that you can craft (I don't know much about technical terms but I don't see why you wouldn't be able to craft a sword) wheras Crafting specifically refers to the skill of Crafting and what can be done with it. Am I making sense, it's nearly midnight...*yawn* lols goodnight :) JalYt-Xil-Vimescarrot 23:43, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

I think it doesn't warrant capitalization in a sentence like "I'm crafting some amulets" but if the sentence is "I'm training my Crafting" then it makes sense to capitalize it. . . .And yes, I know this discussion is several months old. -- Atlantima ^{talk trade contribs}

I second that. As a noun referring to the skill itself should be capitalised, but as a verb referring to using a skill then lower case is fine. Leevclarke 00:59, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree. Capitalise unless it is used as a verb referring to using a skill. "I am crafting tiaras." "I am training Crafting, a production skill." Prgmbeta 06:36, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

You or The Player? for quests/minigames

Moved from Talk:Sorceress's Garden

I know "the player" is our standard format, but to be honest I think "you" is more appropriate. Thoughts? JalYt-Xil-Vimescarrot 19:04, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

I was told to use "player". --Zkz100 21:59, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

That was the way it was per RuneScape:Style - Usage: Do not use the word you or your or any derivative, but rather a player or a player's. The next sentence "The exception to this rule is in quest guides." was added Jan 30 by Vimescarrot. I've moved this section to RuneScape talk:Style for further discussion. Chrislee33 22:14, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I was only really talking about changing it for Sorceress's Garden, I think it works fine for everything else... JalYt-Xil-Vimescarrot 22:19, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

It would apply to all walkthroughs for quests and minigames. I was using the word "player" instead of "you" when editing quest pages. It seems 'you' would be better for walkthroughs. But keep 'player' for all other articles. Chrislee33 23:11, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

After doing several guidelines for quests it find it fairly easy to avoid the use of both "you" or "a player". Simply using the imperative form removes the need to use the word "you" as it is implicit. Makes it pretty easy to comply with the style guide and avoid the rather awkward use of "a player". --Miw 11:17, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Great idea. Imperative, ??? (quickly looks up Wiktionary:imperative and Internet Grammar of English)... of course!!! Chrislee33 21:48, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Actually I thought that use of the imperative (i.e. telling our users what to do, even in quest walkthroughs) was discouraged, and the user of phrases like "players can" or even "players should" or "players must" would be preferred. Leevclarke 00:59, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

so whatever became of this?

The last I recall regarding the usage of the word "you" or even "the player" (or "a player"), it was deemed to be better if reworded into imperative formatting. True? yes/no? 97.76.17.23 23:42, October 6, 2009 (UTC)

item (#)

"If you are compiling a list of drops for a monster in the Bestiary pages, please do not use brackets to denote quantities - instead of Nature runes (5,17,35) it should be 5, 17 or 35 Nature runes. The reason is that brackets can be part of the in-game description, and a monster that drops 2 full waterskins would be very confusing if the brackets system was used (e.g. Waterskin (4) (2) ). The same problem applies to potions."

That's what the guide says about listing item drops, but I disagree. It wouldn't be Waterskin (4) (2), it would be Waterskin(4) (2). I don't like the way it looks with the numbers first. --Wowbagger421 23:13, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Dates

Should dates be in the format of "April 25" or "25 April" or "April 25th" or what? -- Atlantima ^{talk trade contribs}, 01:57, 26 April 2007

Jagex and most of the world use the International format (dd/mm/yyyy - 1 May 2008) rather than the American format (mm/dd, yyyy - May 1, 2008). Note that no commas are used in the International format. Chrislee33 07:56, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Here is a copy of a discussion I started on Category talk:Dates in RuneScape a couple of days ago, but I think this belongs here really.

1. Slightly horrified to find that the convention with dates on this wiki is date then month, rather than month then date as on Wikipedia. I know this wiki is supposed to follow British conventions, but I think this is just going to be confusing.
2. Can we make dates display according to preferences if the date and the year are linked, as on Wikipedia?
3. Should the pages for dates be in ascending or descending order of year? I have seen both here. Wikipedia is ascending (i.e. oldest at the top, newest at the bottom).

Leevclarke 23:32, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

I found this discussion after making an update to the Category:Dates in RuneScape page, as i wanted to see the dates listed in order It's not the prettiest thing in code but for a quick hack it works well enough I think. And now for my responses to your questions/comments...

1. Personally I'm comfortable with the format other than i dislike how it does not sort (thus why i put the table of dates in.)
2. No idea on this one, I too am curious as i would love to see a solution that is not hard-coded.
3. Do Wikipedia dates include the year? answer:yes This list is circular and will only ever have 366 entries max (although we could start a betting pool as to which dates will be filled in next;).

1. REDIRECT user:kytti khat/sig 18:14, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Check out June 27, and you will see events for this date ordered by year, with oldest at the top. Maybe I should bring this up on the yew grove. Leevclarke ^talk http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb290/leevclarke/RuneScape/Max%20Bulldog/Max_logo_mini.png http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb290/leevclarke/RuneScape/bulldog_puppy.png 09:57, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest we put them in ascending order in that case. Actually I'm strongly of the opinion that the dates should be listed in ascending order, the descending order seems counter-intuitive at best and just seems to breed more of that ever popular "newer is better" mentality, when the reality is that "Better is better" regardless of age. As such i believe reading the entries for the date should occur in the same order as the history occurred, and considering that this is not one of those negative-timespace universes time does indeed still flow forward.

1. REDIRECT user:kytti khat/sig 18:43, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia uses both date formats (month before day or day before month). The subsection Strong national ties to a topic states: Articles on topics with strong ties to a particular English-speaking country should generally use the more common date format for that nation. For the U.S. this is month before day; for most others it is day before month. Therefore, since Jagex is British, the format in this wikia should be day before month. wikipedia:Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates and numbers)#Dates. Chrislee33 20:54, October 8, 2009 (UTC)

Consolidation of articles

As a programmer, I follow the design pattern that code should never be duplicated. When you have the same information in two locations, it requires double the maintenance, which just isn't good. I follow the same philosophy on the wiki. We should never duplicate article content in another article, but should instead provide a link to the page on which the information belongs. Some examples:

• The list of furnaces and anvils were duplicated in the Smithing article before I deleted them.
• How Agility used to be...with articles for courses basically embedded in the article itself

Could we include a directive in the style guide so that when we come across duplicated information, we have the rules to back us up when deleting those sections. Endasil (Talk) @ 15:54, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

I have to agree. I quite recently formed a fairly complete and comprehensive guide to making flour under the Windmill article, but I am sure other versions exist under Pot of flour and probably other articles too.  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Leevclarke (talk) on 2008-05-15T01:59:59.

Another link policy

Hey guys, I'm wondering if we might come to consensus about an idea I had for another linking policy. Basically, I've been seeing a lot of linking going on that links to two targets from a single concept. Some examples:

• Barrows minigame
• Crafting skill
• The Desert Treasure quest

I really get annoyed when I see these, because you're basically redirecting a certain concept (such as the Crafting skill) to two destination articles. I would think the examples above should be

• Barrows minigame
• Crafting skill or Crafting skill.
• The Desert Treasure quest (or better just, Desert Treasure)

What are your thoughts? I kind of want to make a policy for this, as reverting the additions of these useless secondary links seems wrong without a rule in the style guide to back it up.

Endasil (Talk) @ 04:51, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Oops... Then I guess I've been getting on your nerves, huh? It's a habit... *puppy-dog eyes* Sowwy... Anyway, I'm neutral on this. =( User:Speckledorph/Sig 04:59, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Lol, perhaps, but I wasn't about to veto your changes based on my preference; I want to see what others think first. Personally, what worries me is that people will tend to click on the second word of something like crafting skill and naturally assume it'd go to the crafting article, not the "skills" article. Endasil (Talk) @ 18:10, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

I prefer the second part. Barrows minigame, Crafting skill, and just Desert Treasure.--Richard (Talk - Contribs) 18:46, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

I prefer a mixture of the two. I think there should be a policy of the link text being the same as the target article where reasonably unambiguous; indeed the two should differ as little as possible, to make it clear to the user where they are being redirected to when they follow the link. This is the policy in Wikipedia, and it makes sense. Specifically:

• Barrows, a minigame
• The Crafting skill
• Desert Treasure, a quest  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Leevclarke (talk) on 2008-05-15T01:59:59.

I really like the latter: The Desert Treasure quest (or better just, Desert Treasure). Prgmbeta 02:24, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

External links reference

Wikipedia has some guidelines on their use of external links which might be used here. Wikipedia:Wikipedia:External links . Chrislee33 03:22, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Numbers now using commas for xp

Jagex is now using commas in experience numbers in the Stats interface with the 12 November 2007 Update:Assist System and Skills Interface. Also, the RS Knowledge Base uses commas for thousands separators and period for decimal markers. Example: [http://www.runescape.com/kbase/viewarticle.ws?article_id=1883 Farming - Seeds]. Commas are also used in 4-digit numbers as well. Unless there are objections, the Numbers style guidelines will be changed from using a non-breaking space (type in " ", no quotes) to a comma to follow Jagex's usage which players will be exposed to in the game. Chrislee33 20:48, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

The KB [http://www.runescape.com/kbase/viewcategory.ws?cat_id=806 Quest Experience Pages] do not use either a comma or space for thousands separator which makes it harder to read the 5+ digit numbers. For Barrows equipment prices [http://www.runescape.com/kbase/viewarticle.ws?article_id=2364] the k is used for thousands; e.g. Barrows weapons: 100k. Most players will be using the Stats interface and the right justification and comma there make it easter to read the xps. Chrislee33 21:47, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Internationally, we are encouraged to use a non-breaking space, since users in continental Europe will see a comma as a decimal point. On this wiki I think the "correct" policy is to be in-keeping with Jagex's conventions, whether best practice or not. Therefore, use commas (against even my better judgement). Leevclarke 00:59, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Spelling of words, U.K. or American

Is there any way to open this topic up to potential change? Or is it too locked ? I believe that since most users are Americans ( I looked at about 20 user pages) and since wikia itself is based in America, American spelling should be prevelant. To counter the arguement that RS itself is based in the U.K., I would argue that the spelling is similar to translating to a native tongue. A site based in Mexico would use spanish.  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.136.67.74 (talk).

Yes, let's talk about spanish. There are MANY different dialects of the spanish language, where as someone from Ecuador would say or spell a word differently from someone from Spain. England and America are no different. Because the game is created and based out of England, whereas the company uses british versions of spelling in the game itself, it is my vote that we continue to follow the guideline as it is now. As I DK ^(talk) 06:20, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

I have to aggree with As I DK, because the in-game spelling is what we're aiming for. We shouldn't have a problem redirecting pages like "Rune armor" to "Rune armour" for error prevention, however, I don't think that using a differant spelling than what's in game would work out well. It would confuse users. Imagine looking for "Rune Armour Set (L)", and not being able to find it because it was "Rune Armor Set (L)".. wouldn't that annoy you, especially knowing you're typing it correctly RIGHT FROM THE GAME? Ben Ryfos^Talk 06:29, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Actually, no. I always check with the spelling as I know it before I look any other way. I am not trying to be argumentative.  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.136.67.74 (talk).

Check section 2 above, "English Spelling", which I think encompasses your point. The real issue is not UK vs. US spelling, it is making the spelling here correspond with the in-game spelling, which is usually British (for an exception, see Jewellery (item)). Leevclarke 00:59, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Ownership and bias

Regarding ownership and bias, i strongly believe this policy should be explicitly expanded to include images since they are another avenue of allowing player names into the wiki, which is already clearly spelled out as a no-no for articles.

1. REDIRECT user:kytti khat/sig 18:46, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

While I agree that "ownership" of articles is a bad thing when somebody refuses to allow others to add edits (I've had that happen more than once on Wikipedia) I don't understand what you are implying here with this image ownership expansion.

I have voiced my opinion of "personal images" on the Yew grove and unfortunately what you are complaining about here seems to be an outgrowth of the current (IMHO excessively) strict policy of no personal image uploads. Since users can't upload a picture of their P.O.H. or of an outfit that they think looks awesome, they have to somehow incorporate that outfit into an article.

So, what exactly are you trying to propose here that you think ought to be considered unacceptable in terms of image ownership? --Robert Horning 14:25, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

In particular I am referring to images that contain player names. For instance when i upload images i usually edit the names to be that of an NPC even if it means doing a little pixel manipulation (such as the ignore list example and this [[:File:Hvh intro.PNG|FoG related]] image).

1. REDIRECT user:kytti khat/sig 23:22, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Pluralizing wikilinks

Since I got chewed out on my user page about this issue, I'm rasing the point here.

The style guide, as currently written, recommends the following:

"Use efficient link formats, especially for plurals. For example, do [[lobster]]s instead of [[lobster|lobsters]]."

For myself, this is a pet peeve of mine to even see words broken up with only a part of the word hyperlinked. It also doesn't deal with things like [[wolf|wolves]] instead of [[wolf]]ves, which is not only a mis-spelling of nasty proportions but looks ugly too!

From an aesthetic viewpoint, I think the partial words linked simply look ugly. As a guideline, this breaks down in a number of ways when the "s" isn't the only way to pluralize the word, and this completely missing the point about how links can and should be used.

Even further, this suggestion about "efficient wikilinks" is something I simply don't get either. Where it says:

"When a skill is linked to, the name of the skill should be used, not a short form or a different spelling of it. Instead of saying "this item can be [[Mining|mined]] by..." you should state "this item can be obtained through the [[Mining]] skill by ...."

This is something that I also strongly disagree with on a more than one level. Straight-jacketing the text of the prose that is being written so that we can conform with the terms as the articles are named on the wiki is something completely unnecessary.

More to the point, this is an incredibly archaic suggestion that goes back to the early days of Ward's wikiwiki when CamelCaseHyperlinking was necessary to put the links into articles. And yes, I was one of the early users of Ward's wiki. It worked then, but it did create all kinds of problem... and that is precisely why the "inefficient" method of linking to content that has completely different spelling relationship to the content you are linking to was created in the first place, together with redirects and other editorial tools.

This is demanding efficiency when none is needed, and indeed forcing an editorial change when there are explicit tools to allow much more creativity in how you write the things you are writing. The few extra letters that are added to the database by making one of these "inefficient" hyperlinks is trivial... and something that clearly isn't demanded either by the Mediawiki software.

I consider these guidelines to be rules explicitly designed to be rules that can control the actions of others in a despotic fashion, and have nothing at all to do with writing good prose and developing a clean tool that can help share knowledge about Runescape. Far from agreeing with these rules, I would explicitly teach new users to do the exact opposite of what is recommended in this part of the style guide. I strongly disagree with this guideline, and indeed would prefer to see it simply removed altogether or suggesting the opposite guideline. --Robert Horning 14:12, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Piped link help page some good reading there. Seems to me that using pipes to insert links to similar pages in context is encouraged. If the link to the page doesn't fit the sentence, according to this, the pipe is used. Almost seems as if that's the sole purpose. Just what I understood though.

Karlis (talk) (contribs)

14:29, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

So why does this style guide seem to suggest such piped links ought not be permitted under any circumstance? I'm really trying to find a defender of this recommended style and what purpose it serves. Once upon a time, when CamelCase was how you provided links and other technical issues for hyperlinks, and such a guideline would not only be suggested but encouraged. But it has been years since such technical reasons for guidelines like these ought to even be followed. I'm strongly suggesting this is an archaic guideline that needs to go. --Robert Horning 23:40, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Directional Spelling

I am looking for some guidance. There are many references to directions in the Wiki but a seeming lack of consistency. I see the word "southwest" and "south-west" used throughout as well as the other cardinal points. Is there a guide rule for a consistent representation of these directions? I know this is a trivial point, but such is the nature of Wikis. Emerson said “A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds” which proves to me he would have loved Runescape! Please, post your thoughts on this. Hatchenator 14:58, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Since the wiki uses the British variation of spellings, I think its "south-west", and not "southwest". That's the British way.   az ^talk   18:31, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the note. I will adhere to the British spelling rule with my edits. Hatchenator 17:40, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Rules about linking to official RuneScape forum

I've checked the wiki guidelines as thoroughly as I could, but I still don't know... are we allowed to link to threads on the RuneScape forum, and is this the right place to ask? ._. I've hyperlinked to [1] to cite a source in regards to my edit of the Penguin H&S article. It seems important to ask, though, because hyperlinks to threads on most forums tend to end up as dead links... if it's against the rules or there's a consensus against it, I'll promptly remove the link. Lord Zurkov 22:39, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

I don't think there are any rules against linking forums. However, I would personally discourage it since forums are constantly changing, and there is a high possibility of the link being broken after a while (unless it is a sticky post).   az ^talk   15:40, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Linking to such dynamic forums is not ideal, but if you're citing a source (e.g. for what a mod said in a forum post) then it is certainly preferable over having no source at all. Even though links tend to become broken, it is quite often possible to access an archived version (for example via Archive.org), but these usually take months to become available. Do use ref tags in conjunction with the Cite web template, and include as much information as possible (see the template documentation - it's essentially the same as it is on Wikipedia). Leevclarke ^talk http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb290/leevclarke/RuneScape/Max%20Bulldog/Max_logo_mini.png http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb290/leevclarke/RuneScape/bulldog_puppy.png 23:05, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Equipment Bonuses

What format should be used for a value of zero in Template:Infobox Bonuses Historical and Template:Infotable Bonuses header (etc)? Some articles use "0", which is mathematically correct as zero has no sign, whereas others use "+0", which is what is used ingame. Personally, as much as it's incorrect, I'm leaning towards "+0", since we try to use things as they are ingame. (Hence, I have been adding pluses to zeros whenever I find them.) Which do we think should be used, and a note hould be added to the style guide about it (after a decision is made).  @Gaz#7521 19:58, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

I vote "+0". It's a bonus to whatever it's applied to, and the "+" suggests that. Lord Zurkov 12:58, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Capitalisation

So I know that you need to capitalise certain words; skills, items, etc. But how many times in the article? Every time the word is mentioned or just once? Throne Room has many examples; do you capitalise player-owned house? Oubliette? Even throne room, which the article title is capitalised as but the opening sentence is not.

Thanks.~introspect. 14:07, October 7, 2009 (UTC)

This is an issue of a proper noun. The English language has some ambiguous rules (like everything else in English) in regards to how you use proper nouns, but typically they should always be capitalized. Some of it is how the word is being used in context, such as "The Player-owned House is a useful place for players to show off their skills".

As the Wikipedia article points out, the German language currently and pre-1800 English language usage capitalized all nouns regardless of their context. That generally isn't considered a good writing style in current style guides, but it is an interesting historical view to consider. From a linguistic perspective, 200 years is not really that much time.

Typically I capitalize all nouns that are linked to other articles, or are about specific examples of things in the game. The King Black Dragon is an example of a proper noun, but black dragons are found in several different places and are more ordinary. A good rule of thumb is to ask if you are making a reference to something specific and unique, or something that can be found in many places in the game. Taking a bucket to a well in order to get a Bucket of Water is another way to demonstrate how capitalization sometimes works.

Is this clear as thick mud? I suppose. That is one of the things that makes writing in English so enjoyable, and where even those who have spent the time to master the language still have opinions and attitude about how things should be done that aren't always consistent. --Robert Horning 11:32, October 8, 2009 (UTC)

I capitalize as the game capitalizes. I would say Black Dragons because you attack a "Black Dragon". http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu33/Psycho_Robot/Sigs%20and%20Avatars/kitty.pngPsycho Robot talk 06:39, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

Concerning a 'Common Grammatical Errors' Section

While editing the wiki, I find a lot of contributors, even veteran editors, misspell or use the wrong word. Example: "there sword" when they mean "their sword". Something along the lines of what Necrohol from Dark Runescape Wiki did... What do you guys think? Prgmbeta 02:19, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

then and than

Despite their pronunciations being very similar, they are different in meaning.

then is used in one of the three following cases:

1. at that time; at the time in question

e.g.

I was living in Cairo then.

2. after that; next; afterward

e.g.

She won the first and then the second game.

3. in that case; therefore

e.g.

If you do what I tell you, then there's nothing to worry about.

Well, that's okay, then.

Whereas than is used in either introducing the second element in a sentence (He was much smaller than his son.) or in expressions introducing exceptions or contrasts (He claims not to own anything other than his home.).

its and it's

Yet another common error is its and it's.

Its is a possessive adjective, meaning it describes an object or anything that associates with an item and/or animal.

e.g.

He chose this area for its atmosphere

On the other hand, it's is a contraction (shortcut) for it is OR it has.

e.g.

it is - It's my fault.

it has - It's been a hot day.

 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Prgmbeta (talk).

If this is something that bugs you and you find annoying, Be bold and fix it. I agree that these are all common grammatical errors, and may even be useful to invoke a 'bot to scan articles and suggest pages that could be edited for improvement. For myself, I don't mind it at all when somebody helps me with copyediting to improve my grammar... and often I even learn a little bit myself in terms of future content that I write. I may not always agree on the changes, but at least I do try to learn from my mistakes and find out why somebody is complaining. A list of common grammatical errors would be useful to put into this style guide as well. Thanks for bringing this subject up. --Robert Horning 20:46, November 25, 2009 (UTC)

Jagex Customer Support

I removed this from the style guide, as it is not only unnecessary, but legally not true either:

• Do NOT upload images of messages you receive from Jagex Customer Support. "Messages sent to you by Jagex are strictly confidential and are intended only for the owner of the account to which they are sent. The contents of these messages must not be disclosed to any other person or copies taken."

The fact is that anything sent to you, in your "player" in box, your e-mail account, in your home postal mail box, and elsewhere is up to you on how you want to deal with that information. It is not "strictly confidential" and certainly not illegal for you to disclose that information to anybody else, or even to make that public. If you are personally worried about the issue, you can ask a lawyer yourself, but I've seen sufficient legal opinion on this topic that I am confident for myself... and in fact I have disclosed content from the Jagex customer service reps to the wider Runescape player community when I've found it to be appropriate.

The one reason to not include screen captures of persosnal messages from Jagex would be the problem with verifiability... as should be the case for messages that have come from any other similar source: If others can't verify that the image or content is genuine, then it can't be trusted as a valid source of information. This is incredibly easy to "fake" in so many ways that it can't be trusted. This is akin to the "screenshots" of the Sailing skill that indeed was faked. If we want to have a policy here or a suggestion about verifiability that would include an exclusion of any kind of personal communication (not just from Jagex), I'm fine with that. But don't make up law here, and I should note that Jagex is also out to lunch in trying to scare you into keeping personal messages from being shared. The only possible exception is if you as a player have formally signed a non-disclosure agreement with Jagex and may be subject to legal prosecution on that basis. That does not apply to most messages that are sent via the customer service interface to ordinary players. --Robert Horning 14:24, December 14, 2009 (UTC)

Academic style

Minimalism is the style of academia. This should be punctuated in the style guide, as it possibly the most significant part of style:

- The use of "you" is inefficient and is easily avoided.Substituting "you" with "the player" does not improve style. - The shorter, the more to the point a sentance is. - Accurate terminology should be used where possible. Terms like "gets" "is" "gives" "shows" should be used with caution - Where a complex word and a simple one may be used, the simple one should be chosen. - "The" should often be "a/an". There are often multiple items in question, not a specific specimin. - Consistency should be used wherever possible. Similar sentances, sections or items should have pages of similar stucture - Listings should be given in lists, not paragraph form, clearly showing all items related in the same list. - Prepositions must be used with care. Idiomatic use is important, where in doubt, check. - Unneccessary words should simply be removed.

Examples:

a section from the http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/Armour[armour] guide:

Attaching a Spirit sigil to the blessed shield gives an additional bonus - the Arcane sigil increases the shield's magic attack bonus, making it the best sidearm available for magic attack; the Spectral sigil increases the shield's magic defence, making it the best sidearm available for magic defence; the Divine sigil gives the shield the special effect of "30% - or as much as if possible if 30% is more than your current amount of Prayer points - of any damage you take is removed. Half of this 30% is deducted from your Prayer instead, while the other half is ignored completely." ; the Elysian sigil gives the shield a special effect of "70% chance of reducing the damage you receive by 25%".

- Using this technique, the below section shows clear improvement:

Attaching a Spirit sigil to the blessed shield gives additional bonus:

- An Arcane sigil increases the shield's magic attack bonus, making it the best sidearm for magic attack.

- A Spectral sigil increases the shield's magic defence, making it the best sidearm for magic defence.

- A Divine sigil adds an effect where 30% of damage taken is reduced. Half of this 30% is deducted in form of prayer points, less damage is reduced with insuficcient prayer points.

-An Elysian sigil produces an effect with a 70% chance of reducing the damage taken by 25%.

Note the removal of semicolons as they would impediment consistency due to the compound effects of the divine and Elysian sigils requiring explanation, -"The arcane", "The spectral", "The divine" and "The elysian" have been changed to "a / an" as many exist, -"You" and "your" have been eliminated as they complicated the sentences, - Inacurate terminology has been removed, such as "gives the shield" where the shield produces an effect, -The clumsy the special effect of "30% - or as much as if possible if 30% is more than your current amount of Prayer points - of any damage you take is removed. Half of this 30% is deducted from your Prayer instead, while the other half is ignored completely." has been completely rephrased using the above principles, -available has been removed twice as it is self-explanatory, - "gives" has been changed to "produces" as effects are idiomatically produced,

Examples by category:

- The use of "you" is inefficient and is easily avoided.Substituting "you" with "the player" does not improve style.

"if a player would walk into the fire they will get the reward" becomes "The reward is recieved walking into the fire."  

"The fastest way to mine gold is to locate your Player-owned house in Brimhaven" becomes "the fastest way to mine gold is by relocating the player-owned house to Brimhaven." (each player only has one house, fascillitating the use of "the")

"a nearby ferryman who will take your gold ores to the bank" becomes "a nearby ferryman takes gold ores to the bank"

"If you use the building where you kill the dwarf cannoner early on in the quest you can bypass using the boatman and get to the bank fairly quickly." becomes "Using the building where the dwarf cannoner is killed early in the quest, bypasses using the boatman shortening the time taken to bank" (here alterations for presicion are also used)

- The shorter, the more to the point a sentance is.

"This is because there are not many money-making methods involving Mining in Members that are not also available in Free-to-play, while Members opens up many money-making methods in other skills. " becomes "Members opens up many money-making methods, but few new methods involving mining."

"Initiate Armour has the same statistics as its Mithril armour counterparts, but with a large Prayer bonus (comparable to Monk's robes, but with a Helmet and good Melee and Ranged defence bonuses, making it superior) and much more efficient in battle against higher level enemies." Becomes "Initiate and mithril armour have the same bonuses except initiate's large prayer bonus. This prayer bonus is comparable to monk's robes, making it efficient in battle against higher level enemies."

"The enhanced spirit shields are currently some of the most expensive items available; this is due to the fact that the parts are only dropped by the level-785 Corporeal Beast. " becomes "Only dropped by the Corporeal Beast (785), enhanced spirit shields are some of the most expensive items in runescape."

Accurate terminology should be used where possible. Terms like "gets" "is" "gives" "shows" should be used with caution

"walking into the fire gets the reward." becomes "The reward is recieved walking into the fire."

"The Amulet of Fury gives the same stab attack bonus" becomes "The Amulet of Fury has the same stab attack bonus"

"The Fighter hat from Barbarian Assault gives the same slash attack bonus and also requires 45 Defence." becomes "The Fighter hat from Barbarian Assault has the same slash attack bonus but requires 45 Defence."

Where a complex word and a simple one may be used, the simple one should be chosen.

"Players must also fight several other monsters before fighting TzTok-Jad, resulting in a high usage of food, potions, ammunition, prayer, etc" becomes "players must also fight several other monsters before reaching TxTok-Jad, requiring high supplies of food, potions, ammunition and prayer."

"TzTok-Jad slams down his forward legs" becomes "TzTok-Jad slams down his front legs"

"The" should often be "a/an". There are often multiple items in question, not a specific specimin.

"TzTok-Jad uses all the three types of combat to engage the player" becomes "TzTok-Jad uses all three types of combat to engage the player"

"The four Yt-HurKot spawn when Jad reaches below half hp" becomes " Four Yt-HurKot spawn when Jad reaches below half hp"

"If Jad spawns in the position where he cannot attack you" becomes "If Jad spawns in a position where he cannot attack you"

Consistency should be used wherever possible. Similar sentences, sections or items should have pages of similar stucture

• Please edit in examples here, there are bound to be plenty*

Listings should be given in lists, not paragraph form, clearly showing all items related in the same list. See Sigil example above.

Prepositions must be used with care. Idiomatic use is important, where in doubt, check.

"his proficiency at magic is far higher than" should be "his proficiency at magic is far greater than"

"He will constantly hit 5s on you" becomes "He will probably deal 5 damage to you constantly"

Unneccessary words should simply be removed.

"Use melee up close with Protect from Magic prayer" becomes " Use melee with Protect from Magic prayer"

"He is extremly godly" becomes "He is godly"

"The Duel Arena or similar safe pvp minigames works well for this. " becomes "stat-restoring minigames are efficient for this"

Please comment on where and how in-depth this should be included in the style guides, also the ones for quests and other guides. --Tortilliachp 06:47, December 25, 2009 (UTC)

New section: Academic style.

I just placed a new section called "academic style" at the top of this article, because it comments upon general style, rather than mistakes.

This section will need discussion, and editing as it is raw in its present form.

The issue of academic style is something that needs improvement on almost all articles. Simply editing "you" and "the player" on every article is a massive yet important undertaking. minimalism is a lot more important than that again, where convoluted sentences are improved upon so information is conveyed more directly.

Comments? ----Tortilliachp 15:33, January 1, 2010 (UTC)

I like it.  @Gaz#7521 17:50, January 1, 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for the format update. I added information on exclamation marks, extremes and personification. I think the list should now be somewhat close to complete. ----Tortilliachp 06:49, January 2, 2010 (UTC)

Academic style section removed. Why??

Now why would someone take the time to remove the academic section of the style guide? Seriously now, why is that neccessary? A discussion before removing it would maybe be a good idea? Tortilliachp 15:51, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

British English spelling and format -- discussion.

I find the policy of correcting American spelling and date format distasteful. Why can't we just follow the Wikipedia policy, which is simply to keep an article that has already been done in either American or British English consistent? The systematic application of British spelling and convention is actually possibly confusing, as well, since floors in England start with the ground floor and floors in America start with the first floor, and sometimes people will forget to mention both conventions in articles.

In my opinion, the argument that "we must spell in British English and use all British conventions because Jagex is based in England" is possibly ridiculous, because perhaps 90% of the players are actually Americans! Good writers should aim to write for the audience, not in some arbitrary fashion.--Agamemnus 21:47, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

I completely agree with you. --Liquid^Talk 21:48, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

RS:YEW --Aburnett ^(Talk) 21:58, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

I didn't know about this. I'll move the discussion over, ok?--Agamemnus 22:07, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

Er, how do I list a discussion over there? :\--Agamemnus 22:09, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

Never mind, I missed the button... --Agamemnus 22:11, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

Edit: I moved this to a Yew Grove discussion format here: Forum:British_English_spelling_and_format --Agamemnus 22:13, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

Jagex

Just a thought, but Jagex stands for JAva Gaming EXperts... Should the letters which stand for the full words be capitalized, making it 'JaGEx'? Again, it's just a thought... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.177.58.204 (talk) on 03:58, 2011 February 13.

People sometimes try to capitalize the letters, but Jagex itself does not.

1. REDIRECT User:Urbancowgurl777/Signature 05:03, February 13, 2011 (UTC)

They go by Just About the Game EXperience currently actually. Regardless names should be written as those that go by that name prefer.^T_H^A_R^K_O^N 17:19, September 7, 2011 (UTC)

Capitalisation (again )

Should we add a section about general capitalisaion conventions. At the moment, there is only a capitalisaion convention for article titles (and a tiny mention later on that RuneScape should have capital R and S), but a full subsection should be added to section 4 I think. And it should be decided what should be capitalised cause not everyone seems to agree^[2] on for example if items should be capitalised when not in the title. ^T_H^A_R^K_O^N 17:19, September 7, 2011 (UTC)

I think the general rules are along the following lines:

• All item names, and most monster names, are normal nouns - that is, always lowercase (except at the beginning of a sentence etc): helm of neitiznot is the example, despite it containing the place name Neitiznot, its still lowercase (may or may not have anything to do with the system Jagex uses to store names)
• All place names, NPC names, quest names, task names, (etc) and skills are proper nouns - always uppercase, per ingame (also certain monsters, like Sigmund, Nomad, King Black Dragon)
  • Care is to be taken in certain cases, in places where the name is a verb, like mining, smithing, fletching, etc. "The queen can be smooshed by mining the pillar, requiring level 10 Mining."
• Other things should be have UCS applied on a case by case basis. Normally easy to work out what to do.

I can't remember if there was a discussion on this or not, but this is what I generally do. Some formal definition would be nice though.  @Gaz#7521 19:37, September 7, 2011 (UTC)

Should I try to get consensus somewhere else, in User Help, in Yew Grove, or is here ok? Your guidelines seem OK to me. However, until now I've always kept item names as ucfirst as I thought that was the convention but then realised the convention only applied to titles. Having every item title start with upper case probably doesn't look as good though. I think proper nouns contained within items start with uppercase in the game though, if not the case with helm of neitiznot, that may be an exception. I notice the article about that helm has conflicting case info, I'll check ingame and fix that. ^T_H^A_R^K_O^N 19:18, September 8, 2011 (UTC)

I think it would be better to go via the YG for a policy that covers such large numbers of articles, just in case.  @Gaz#7521 19:41, September 8, 2011 (UTC)

To be continued here: Forum:Capitalisation policy ^T_H^A_R^K_O^N 17:03, September 9, 2011 (UTC)

Policy on redirects and linking

One thing I have noticed on this wiki is that linking to redirect pages is super common to see. It doesn't make much sense to do. And it is very confusing when you're looking at a URL that says one thing and an article title saying another. I was very surprised there wasn't already a link policy regarding redirects.

Some examples of what I mean Example one, Example two, An even worse example (I fixed this one, but the fact that it exists in the first place boggles my mind, and I'm sure it's not the only one of it's kind.), This one is even used in a userbox, creating boatloads of redirect links.

Anyone have any thoughts on the matter? Viruzzz 20:33, August 18, 2012 (UTC)

I know this is old, but I was also wondering about this and I didn't find any policies/discussions on this. Most Wikia-based wikis seem to prefer avoiding redirects when linking, while Wikipedia is pretty adamant about not fixing the links (see here). Not that we should necessarily make a decision based on that, but it's just some info I found. --Shockstorm (talk) 18:49, March 18, 2013 (UTC)

I tend not to fix redirects in articles, unless I am editing other things as well. If there is potential for that link to become an article by itself (i.e. "Penguin points" in the example above) I don't fix the redirect. If the redirect is a misspelling, capitalisation error, etc., I tend to fix that redirect.

For other namespaces (such as Template:, File:, etc.), the wiki community generally fixes the redirects, although there is no valid reason to do so. The redirects should be fixed only if the templates, files, etc. are doing to deleted. My two cents. User:Azliq7 01:30, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

Over-usage Internal Links; What's the standard?

Recently I was looking at the Thigat longbow page and thought a few things should have internal links, such as "Fletching" and "Daemonheim" but as I became more picky I asked myself, "what is going too far; should I link shield, bow, or abilities?" I can't find any mention of this on the Wikipedia itself or this Wikia, so a link to this policy or if someone more confident on this would comment, I'd appreciate it. --User:Borithel/Signature 06:17, June 19, 2017 (UTC)

I just looked at the page, tweaked a few links. Changed the first letters to lower case, swapped Bowstring > Bowstring (Dungeoneering), and added one to abilities. I don't personally feel that shield or bow requires linking. The infoboxes at the bottom contain links to the overview pages for Dungeoneering longbows and Ranged equipment, so adding them in the body of the text is unnecessary. AnselaJonla 06:40, June 19, 2017 (UTC)