Talk: Elder Artefacts

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Elder "Weapons"?

After all three articles were merged, what happened to the reference that the Elder Kiln is an Elder Artefact? And imo, the Staff of Armadyl and the sword used by Guthix are certainly Elder Weapons, but was the Stone of Jas explicitly called an Elder Weapon by jagex? The earlier classification of calling it an Elder Artefact seems more logical to me (and the Elder Weapons are a subsection of the Elder Artefacts). 134.58.179.35 06:41, March 8, 2013 (UTC)

Agreed.  Wahisietel (Talk) 10:32, March 8, 2013 (UTC)

Mod Osborne refers to the trio as weapons. As for the Kiln, it's a weapon nor an artefact really, but if it helped the TokHaar build mountains and such (at which they failed - even Galarpos and Arandar are puny) it can be added. And Wahi, stop quoting Hazeel. Fswe1 15:48, March 8, 2013 (UTC)

I agree with Wahisietel/Battleben. Artefact seems more reasonable/preferable than weapon (e.g.: Saradomin's crown, not really a weapon). However, if you were to ask me, I would not change it until we know more. (As it's the only official term we know, since Guthix named the SoA like that.) Maybe add a note on top that the word "weapon" is not the best term but the most up-to-date/official one. . . . _Yours, Enquidou ^Talk . . 19:30, March 12, 2013 (UTC)

Didn't Guthix' memories refer to the elder items as Artefacts? It's the closest thing to an official term we have.82.156.223.110 22:04, March 12, 2013 (UTC)

Frostenhorm trivia

could someone add a trivia or speculation subheading just so the continuing editing of the horn section for the frostenhorn can be put to rest? 109.255.120.22 23:06, March 12, 2013 (UTC)michael 23:00

Theres already a well clear warning which is viewable from Source mode of the edit that many I.P's missed.  TonyBest100 23:11, March 12, 2013 (UTC)

I protected the page specifically because people kept on adding that in - RS:NOT#CRYSTAL clearly states no speculation Template:Signatures/Ciphrius Kane 23:17, March 12, 2013 (UTC)

Well the Frostenhorn is known to amplify power. And what do we know about the Elder artefacts from the Guthixian memories?

“

These items were conduits for their power, used to refine, to create on smaller scales, to create perfection.

”

I also queried every page in the mainspace looking for "horn". The only viable candidate came back as the Frostenhorn. Then there's the point that it was in the possession of Zaros at one point.

I can edit the page to add that in, but someone will probably shout at me.

1. REDIRECT User:Cqm/Signature

It seems likely to me that the 'horn' is indeed the Frostenhorn. And that maybe the Elder Kiln is also an Artefact? Especialy since the Tokharr mention being created by beings who were around before your gods or something, I can't remember the exact quote but It's strongly implied they were created directly by the Elder Gods. The Guthixian Memories call the Weapons, Artefacts and I think that's the official name since obviously neither the crown nor the stone are weapons and arguably even the staff is not a weapon since it can be used merely to amplify your power and heal people and not only as a means to kill or harm someone. The only one that's obviously a weapon is the sword and that's broken now. If the Elder kiln is an Artefect that would make 6/12 artefacts on one world - Staff of Armadyl, Crown of Saradomin, (Frosten?)Horn, Stone of Jas, Sword of Guthix and the Elder Kiln. Anyway that's my rambling finished.

Oh wait, and if the Symbol on the Staff of Armadyl is actually the Symbol of the Elder God who made it and not Armadyl then it explains Saradomin's symbol being on the bottom of the Staff since it's actually the symbol of another Elder God who also made Saradomin's Crown and the Staff was made by 2 Gods or a secondary Symbol of the Elder God who made the Staff and also the Crown. 04ismailjj6 (talk) 10:13, March 13, 2013 (UTC)

The Kiln would appear to be a product of the Elder Gods, but I'm not so sure it could be considered an artefact. It's apparently never been contested in the God Wars. However, when the memories talk of the crown, it mentions the artefacts are in the possession of entities. The Kiln does not appear to be so portable that it could be considered possessed. Perhaps it was created using one/some of the artefacts, but not considered one of them?

1. REDIRECT User:Cqm/Signature

The Armadyl symbol on the staff isn't from Armadyl himself, when he used the staff, his followers adopted that symbol Thojohn22 ^{Talk HS} 11:47, March 13, 2013 (UTC)

With regards to the horn, what proof is there that it's been seen yet? After all, before the release of the slayer tower updates everybody that I talked to thought Frank from the Hallowe'en event was coming back, but it turned out to be somebody who we'd yet to see. Once there is definitive proof, not coincidental proof, then we can state that the frostenhorn is the horn. Template:Signatures/Ciphrius Kane 22:22, March 13, 2013 (UTC)

First off, I'd like to say that it is most likely the frostenhorn. The thing amplifies power like a lot of the other Elder Weapons. Also, it's the only horn with that seems to suggest that power. Also, we don't know much of it's history, like most Elder Weapons. Someone created it, and it doesn't seem like it was a regular god. Also, all of the other Elder Weapons referenced by Guthix have appeared in game, so it's likely this counts too. Though, I have to wonder if the stone, or barrows icon from temple at sennisten are elder weapons, as the barrows icon was apparently pretty powerful, and the stone caused prayer energy to be released more rapidly, so it could be like an amplifier. Finally, this is just pure speculatiopn, but could the godsword have once been an elder weapon. We heard that regular gods forged it, but it was capable of killing a god. So could they have found a broken elder weapon and fixed it? Again just speculation. However, the frostenhorn is almost definitely an elder weapon.

138.210.246.59 01:17, March 14, 2013 (UTC)Leafbladie

You have highlighted the exact reason why we can't add it in: "...it is most likely...". Find me evidence that says it is the elder artefact mentioned and I'll add it, not this coincidental anecdotal evidence. And saying the horn is already ingame because we've already seen 2 of the other artefacts mentioned is a bit like saying Zamorak is ingame cause we've seen other gods - A equalling X and B equalling X does not mean C equals X Template:Signatures/Ciphrius Kane 15:09, March 14, 2013 (UTC)

Are the Dragonkin Artefacts?

If the Tokhaar are Artefacts because they were created by the Elder Gods to shape Gielinor does that make the Dragonkin Elder Artefacts too? We know they were created by the Elder God Jas to protect the Stone of Jas but maybe they don't count as a separate Artefact and should come under the Stone of Jas heading as it's protectors?04ismailjj6 (talk) 12:00, March 13, 2013 (UTC)

I think being a protector of an Artifact does not necessarily make you one, the Balance Elemental also isn't regarded as a Yonger God Artefact. . . . _Yours, Enquidou ^Talk . . 12:06, March 13, 2013 (

Weren't the Dragonkin enslaved by Jas, rather than created by him/her? ^T_H^A_R^K_O^N 17:12, March 14, 2013 (UTC)

Barrows icon

Is the Barrows icon a artifact? From the quest Temple at Senntisten. [ unsigned ]

That would be making an assumption. Just because the Frostenhorn might be an artefact doesn't mean the icon and the relic are artefacts too. Jampolo 22:08, March 13, 2013 (UTC)

I agree, on top of that, the barrows icon only adsorbs/absorbs power (from prayers), and that does not mean it had power of its own, like the Elder Artefacts do. . . . _Yours, Enquidou ^Talk . . 17:07, March 14, 2013 (UTC)

Skargaroth or Guthix sword

It was originally Skargaroth's sword, should we refer to it as Skargaroth's or Guthix's. Thojohn22 ^{Talk HS} 00:31, March 14, 2013 (UTC)

Well, I would say we should not name then after any younger god, whether it's "The Crown of Saradomin", "Guthix's Sword", or "The Oder of Bandos" for all I care. They're Elder Artefacts, maybe we should call then "Elder Sword", or just "Sword", like Guthix did in his memories (Stone, Staff and Horn). . . . _Yours, Enquidou ^Talk . . 17:11, March 14, 2013 (UTC)

We could list all names it is known by perhaps, similar to Stone of Jas, Fist of Guthix and Eye of Saradomin. The other artifacts were probably known by many names. If we know for certain who created the artifact, we should name it after him or her. But otherwise we could either pick the first known owner, the owner who made it most known, or the last known owner. In the case of the stone that would be Jas, Guthix and Lucien respectively. ^T_H^A_R^K_O^N 17:17, March 14, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, but that will give many problems, e.g.: Staff of Jas > Staff of Guthix > Staff of Armadyl > Staff of (all the people in the Ghostly robe mini-quest) > Staff of Lucien > Staff of the two Dragonkin > Staff of Sliske > Staff of ...

I think it's better to just name it "Elder Staff" (or "Staff of the Elder gods" if yo want to be really fancy), no-one owns the staff (or the other artifacts) they're merely used (remember: "FALSE USER!"). But the Elder gods made them. And unless they have a name, I vote to just call them like this "Elder [item type]", or "[item type]" to avoid all the "Elder..". . . . _Yours, Enquidou ^Talk . . 17:27, March 14, 2013 (UTC)

To be honest, I have a habit of calling the Stone of Jas, simply the Stone anyway. Though this is mostly to avoid spoilers, since anyone that would not understand me should not understand me when I say I am using the power of The Stone. I do suggest we use definite articles though, so The Stone, rather than Stone. And since they're still somewhat proper nouns it should be The Stone rather than The stone. This will work out well until there are two different artifacts that are both stones, or both staves, etc. Knowing Jagex this is unlikely. Also I move that the TokHaar should be removed for the same reason as that the Frostenhorn should not be added, there is no conclusive evidence. I do think that neither The Staff, nor The Horn were created by Jas. Three Elder gods created Gielinor, three artifacts were left on it. It might be coincidence but I think that each of the three gods left one artifact there. And finally the term "FALSE USER!" does not imply there is no owner, in fact, it implies that there is, for only the (in the eyes of the Dragonkin true) owner would be the TRUE USER. ^T_H^A_R^K_O^N 17:56, March 14, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, yes, "The Stone"/"The Staff", etc. I agree with that (also that it seems unlikely there are multiple Staffs or Stones). So you, too, suggest on naming them here like that too. And I think I have to disagree with you on the TokHaar, allow me to quite the memories (where Guthix doesn't seem to capitalize, hmm.. well, we could still do this, much more clear imo): "Many of the elders' artefacts were here - a staff, a horn, a stone - but I knew their power and kept them hidden.". The word Many suggests there are more than just those three. And although the TokHaar can sound a bit down-talking I don't think they would lie about being created by the Elder gods as an Artefact - see that quote on the page. And lastly, the point about the USER. I think that user does not mean OWNER perse. You could be perfectly well allowed to be a user, while not owning it. If only gods are allowed to use it (like it seems Guthix and Saradomin were allowed to, and I would think Zamorak too - see The Origins of Gielinor video) but Lucien wasn't, then I think that's the criterion. And if you don't meet it, you're using it falsely. . . . _Yours, Enquidou ^Talk . . 18:17, March 14, 2013 (UTC)

Reading this I would also go for "Stone", "Staff", "Crown"... And then specify the most common name as Main article. And there should be 12 items in total as seen in Guthixian Memories. Thojohn22 ^{Talk HS} 17:33, March 15, 2013 (UTC)

Good :) Also the new FAQ mentions this "the most powerful item in the multiverse resides here" [on Gielinor], and that item is one of "The Elder Twelve". So it seems they have some sort of official name too, besides just being described as Elder Atefacts. We also might want to use part of this[1] image for The Sword: . . . _Yours, Enquidou ^Talk . . 18:23, March 15, 2013 (UTC)

God dammit, how many times will they change the damn name?! Jampolo 05:25, March 16, 2013 (UTC)

I still want to know what the criteria is for the wildly different "Stonetoucher" and "ARGH FALSE USER!" categories are. Any takers? --195.59.160.126 18:05, June 28, 2013 (UTC)

Elder Crown

Isn't there a bit much info on Saradomin in the crown section. I know he wears it, but a lot of it isn't relevant. Also: I believe a part of it is even incorrect. I vaguely remember Saradomin saying he confescated the Stone of Jas from Zamorak, and not the other way around. (Flashback from touching the stone during ROTM) Rsshadow (talk) 21:35, March 18, 2013 (UTC)

Who's to say he didn't get it back afterwards? Jampolo 03:50, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

No-one, and that would be the point. One is known (RSshadow's comment, the other is speculation (your comment). . . . _Yours, Enquidou ^Talk . . 08:12, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

TokHaar confirmed

TokHaar are artefacts as stated by Mod Osbourne: "You can guarantee it. Some artefacts have been found, while others have not. Some are in the hands of gods, while others are walking around in volcanoes." Fswe1 14:22, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

He also specifically named the TokHaar in a later question, cannae mind which Template:Signatures/Ciphrius Kane 14:41, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

So are the TokHaar artifacts, or they an artifact collectively? Since TzHaar were originally TokHaar, are they too artifacts then? Or is instead the Elder Kiln the artifact and are the TokHaar an extension of it. The TokHaar have a collective mind and are basically one with the kiln. To me it makes more sens if the Kiln as a whole is the artifact. ^T_H^A_R^K_O^N 03:18, April 1, 2013 (UTC)

Well, I think that the TzHaar aren't elder artefacts, they are too mortal for it, elder artefacts need to have some immortality alongside them. Maybe it's better to give the collection TokHaar and Elder Kiln the title of Elder Artefact, since the TokHaar can become mortal if they're too far away from it. (Personally I think the Elder Kiln would be a better recipient of the title.) But.. Mod Osborne decides in the end :P . . . _Yours, Enquidou ^Talk . . 10:34, April 1, 2013 (UTC)

Davey could make a mistake though. Like he confused Ikov with Iban. Fswe1 11:53, April 1, 2013 (UTC)

I know, but that way we could start doubting everything. Also the confusion with Ikov and Iban is more... reasonable, since the lore was correct, but the names changed. The TokHaar already called it out ingame, Osborne sort of confirmed it, and it would be a more fundamental lore mistake, rather than a mistake in words or something like that. (And of course the Artefact could actually be the Kiln, and the TokHaar are just projecting and reinterpreting... like Juna mixed her own views wiht those of Guthix). . . . _Yours, Enquidou ^Talk . . 12:21, April 1, 2013 (UTC)

7th Artefact?

In one of the late questions mod osbourne states that the majority of the Elder Artefacts are on gielinor which given there's 12 of them mean's at least 7 are on gielinor. Does anyone have any thoughts on the seventh?04ismailjj6 (talk) 23:15, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

It is quite possible for them to be on Gielinor, yet not in the game. ^T_H^A_R^K_O^N 03:26, April 1, 2013 (UTC)

I am fairly certain Mod Osborne said in one of the FAQs (they really need to group them together more) that one Elder Artefacts on Gielinor is something that we frequently see, or walk past.. or something like that. . . . _Yours, Enquidou ^Talk . . 10:22, April 1, 2013 (UTC)

Validation: The Elder Kiln & the TokHaar

See Mod Osborne's statement here ;) . . . _Yours, Enquidou ^Talk . . 14:12, May 3, 2013 (UTC)