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This talk page is for discussing the Pay to PK Riot page.

Misc.

Cowboy2 00:44, 14 December 2007 (UTC)Zezima was there at w66 riot i post screenie later but add that people also bought pots at the general store and dropped them on the ground to form nazi symbols and near them people talked against jagex.

I cant find my zezima screenie but add this:a little hope

little hope

Yay!! i hope they change it back over 50,000 mems have quit o_O
No, it means they might add something else to make it better. Most staff have said that they not reverting the changes. --Drummer (speak) 10:53, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Possible renaming

"World 66 Riot" doesn't really have anything that distinguishes itself from other riots. I think this article should be renamed to something that can tell the reader before even reading the article what it basically was about. Any ideas? I can't think of any. :/. Dragon helmChiafriend12Granite body (old)Loon is best buttlord 03:48, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Uh, "December 10 2007 Riot"? --Drummer (speak) 05:23, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
This riot is generally known as the Pay to Pk riot. --Whiplash 05:28, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
Also good. --Drummer (speak) 07:11, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

I like Pay to Pk also.Rs4life07 12:14, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Moved. --Drummer (speak) 12:32, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
This title, "Pay to Pk Riot", hides an important part of the riots (the complaints about "balanced trades")... "10 December 2007 Riots" sounds much more appropriate, and we could merge all Dec 10 in game riots in one article (World 66, Mod Hasmo...). Second-abyssal-whipPatheticcockroachGuthan's platebody(Talk) 12:36, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Someone should add the fact that Zezima was present at the riots.--Rs4life07 02:22, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

He was? Zeldafanjtl 03:47, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Any proof? Like a screenshot or something? --Drummer (speak) 04:13, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Why is it called "Pay to PK"? Last time I checked PKing was an f2p feature. 128.198.172.144 22:16, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Because it was a chant most people said ("We pay to pk"). Read above about the requested move as well. --Drummer (speak) 10:51, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Most of the wilderness is only accessable on member worlds. The update made the whole wilderness smaller. White partyhat old C Teng talk 03:07, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

The worst of the situation is not the changes made, but the effect the jagex staffs response will have on the real world jagex economy. with memberships cancelled at record rates, and record low numbers of players loggod in, even at peak hours, the real dollars (ford motor company, and other adverts) will just drift away. if you look at the jagex sales pitch designed to lure in new advertisers, its claims of volume in both membership, and logged players, are 10 times or more greater then you can see now. and with the making of the changes permanant, the growth will be in full reverse for the company. Watching the coperate response and stubborn replies to membership concerns, one might wonder about the new C E O, and his motivations. what will be gained by taking on a new prospering company after leaving paypal in the dust and then creshing it into a brick wall? (thelvis)  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by THELVIS (talk).

Ok, so maybe that since it's now kind of over it's time to rename it to something less biased, like the date it started (there is a strong PK bias in this title, the rants were as much about PKing as about trading) Second-abyssal-whipPatheticcockroachGuthan's platebody(Talk) 07:48, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

I cant help but laugh at the nerds across the world who think that a riot is defined as people typing how they are upset.  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.107.227.138 (talk).

They did much more than just typing, the massive amount of membership cancelations are basicly a way of boycotting Jagex. Also typed verbal offensive is just as intimidating as shouting at one's face he is an <insert any insult here>. -- 84.245.20.230 19:09, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

wrong hours?

I dont know why, but last night it said the riot was in its 40th hour, a few minutes ago it said 35th, now it says 26th! whats goin on?!

Who knows? It was probably just a mix-up. I'm pretty sure that it's correct by now. Zeldafanjtl 00:31, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

No more pictures ?

We already have quite a lot of screenshots there... so I think it would be reasonable to stop adding them unless they really show some important information that was missing yet. Second-abyssal-whipPatheticcockroachGuthan&#039;s platebody(Talk) 14:11, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't see any reason to limit the amount of pictures, so long as most are placed in the gallery and aren't added in rediculous numbers. No matter how well written an article is, nothing quite tells a story like a picture. Morian Smith 02:39, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm not talking about limiting to some precise number, but just make sure they aren't, as you said, added in ridiculous number. Maybe I didn't express it very well though.Second-abyssal-whipPatheticcockroachGuthan&#039;s platebody(Talk) 06:45, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

leaders?

I got to lead a huge riot(i kinda let it die) X warrior411 18:55, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

too anti-riot

Im rioting and and this article makes it seem pink is outnumbered and dieing and the riot in general. It's not, although it will becouase of us members are quitting! Just look at the nubmer of ppl playing. Oh and yes im a member Qwertyui606.

Soon.....

Soon Runescape wont be as popular and games like world of warcaft will probeley become better unless jagex can reslove this peacefully and restored Runescape to its oldself and making new fetures but carefully making sure that it will not launch runescape into a big riot like this one.Cowboy2 01:56, 13 December 2007 (UTC)cowboy2

Yeah, I hope they change it back soon. I hate bots even more now.. you're not going to see 200,000 people playing often anymore unless Jagex thinks of a better idea.White partyhat old C Teng talk 02:55, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

F2P Arena

Was the fact that the duel arena was now available to free players really part of the riot? White partyhat old C Teng talk 03:03, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't know, but I think it would be kind of silly to riot because something is now available to everyone. Dragon helmChiafriend12Granite body (old)Loon is best buttlord 03:15, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
I actually saw one single post kind of complaining about it... but that's all. So probably no :) Second-abyssal-whipPatheticcockroachGuthan&#039;s platebody(Talk) 06:47, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
Just proves some members are selfish little brats... --Drummer (speak) 10:47, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
The ones who were willing to riot over it, anyway. We're not all like that.
| Chocotard 10:08, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

I'll just delete that part, then. White partyhat old C Teng talk 19:34, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Is it true?

Is it true about people buying pink cothes and bule? Because I asked my friend and he said he did not see anyone wereing pink and bule so is this true?Cowboy2 00:25, 14 December 2007 (UTC)cowboy2

Yes, it is true. In the future, you should trust Wikia editors more than your friend. Zeldafanjtl 00:30, 14 December 2007 (UTC) Thanks for the tipCowboy2 00:44, 14 December 2007 (UTC)cowboy2

Cowboy, you don't have to type in four tildes and your username, just the tildes. They do it on their own. White partyhat old C Teng talk 19:36, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Put the hours bak in?

Before it said how many hours the riots been going on, like "the riots in its 72nd hour" couldsomone put how many hours the riots been oging on plz?--Vex 327 14:16, 14 December 2007 (UTC)Vex 327

Again, Vex, you don't have to type in your name, just four tildes. White partyhat old C Teng talk 19:38, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Rumor has it............

Rumor has it that players have killed themselves over this dumb update, most likely because it took out the things they liked the most. Is it true?--Pkthis 22:55, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

If you mean killing their characters, yes, that's very true. Rioters are sometimes trying to crowd Falador with gravestones. Though, if you mean in real life, I doubt it's true, and if it is, I doubt that it's plural. Dragon helmChiafriend12Granite body (old)Loon is best buttlord 23:01, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

I think that you're misinterpreting it. People have killed themselves in-game. I'm sure that there's a few weirdos who killed themselves in real life, but that's very few people. Zeldafanjtl 03:42, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Runescape cvil war

Now with people joining sides which are bule and pink it sounds to me like a cvil warCowboy2 23:07, 14 December 2007 (UTC)cowboy2

Ahem, yeah. Civil War. Whatever. Just keep Iron Man away from it. Rodtheanimegod4ever 03:56, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

The durial page has a video...

The durial page has a video why can't this page have one? I asked an admin and he said it was fine there. (gangsterls was the one i asked). Bandos godswordJmoDragon platebody, 04:28, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Yeah... A picture "tells a thousand words", so a video would tell even more. Elg's vid seems just fine. I say it should be added. Dragon helmChiafriend12Granite body (old)Loon is best buttlord 04:34, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Wont revert?

Why wont jagex revert this horrible update? Sure, maybe it is to stop real-world traders, but do you realize that the loss of players playing because of this is way more than the cost of real-world traders? It seems like jagex doesnt understand this at all........blasted communists...........--Pkthis 20:27, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

This is not communism, it's just dictatorship (and I do wonder why I see lots of ppl calling this communism on the official forums)... but this should rather be discussed on the forums, the talk page is more for talks related to how to improve the page. Second-abyssal-whipPatheticcockroachGuthan&#039;s platebody(Talk) 21:57, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

January 2, 2008 protests

I was in World 66 and I saw a group of protesters ranting "We pay we say". Note this in the article.  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 194.46.175.166 (talk).


i saw it too it was in world 1 varrock(96.231.120.81 20:07, 20 March 2008 (UTC))

I added a small section at the bottom about how the riots picked up for a couple days before and after the updates. I don't have a whole lot of info. on it, though, so contributions to that paragraph would be great. Morian Smith 00:44, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Its over

I guess the riot it pretty much over now but for those who where in it I know it is sad but sometimes things change and you gotta live with it those who supported jagex you guys i guess hadle it well for those who didnt really cared im with you im not hurting any feelings but sometimes things i this happenCowboy2 00:46, 6 January 2008 (UTC)cowboy2

I just don't understand why they didn't change the wilderness back. If there's now a new trading limit, the wildy resize is no longer needed anymore. White partyhat old C Teng talk 23:42, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
There is, actually. If the Wilderness was brought back, gold sellers would get killed by gold buyers, thus transacting the sum. Dragon helmChiafriend12Granite body (old)Loon is best buttlord 05:23, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

It is not over yet

I saw riots on worlds 17, 18, and 152.(96.231.120.81 20:07, 20 March 2008 (UTC))

16 pics

Do we really need 16+ pics of the riot? ‎PumpkinAtlandy 01:56, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Reference to Loss of 2 Million Customers

The article formerly said that Jagex lost 60,000 customers in the immediate aftermath of the update; now it says that 2 million players were lost in all. Unfortunately, the citation to this new info. is a broken link. If this can't be fixed, I'm going to revert it back. I hope someone can fix this problem, and I have no objection to its inclusion so long as it can be cited. =) Morian Smith 23:37, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Jagex didn't even have 2 million customers. Well, I can't say that as fact, but they had just achieved the one million member mark on May 4th, 2007, so I don't think they lost 2 million. All of their profits would have been gone. Rollback crown Kudos 2 U Talk! Edit count! Contribs! 02:28, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

I felt pretty much the same; I tried to figure in all the members that could have quit since then, and maybe the free players that became inactive soon after... but I don't know how they would even figure that out, and even then it's a rediculous number. Morian Smith 04:05, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm member and quit too, and saw a lot people who quit (and I'm see the riot too). Not 2 million but a lot. (More than 60k...) But I go back, in the second half of 2008. --Fullmoney91 11:32, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

JaGEx dropped their customer support

I am 100% sure JaGEx stopped allowing players to contact them and ask questions through their customer service/support around the same time the riots took place. Should we add that the possible reason for this was due to the massive amount of spam they were most likely receiving? Bttb333 06:09, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Jagex removed Customer Support and replaced it with a single FAQ page, and I'd say that it was within a couple of months of the changes. I would think that the aggressive messages they recieved were probably atleast a contributing factor. It probably ought to be mentioned, although as a possibility rather than fact. Quest Morian Smith Saradomin crozier 17:42, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Removal of Information

A player has recently decided to cut the article's content in half without getting any kind of outside opinion or consensus on whether these major changes are necessary or in any way beneficial to the article. I understand the Community Wikiproject felt that the article, as it was, was the best in the scope of the project, and no other player has ever expressed any view that the articles' content needed to be cut. I intend to revert the article to its previous state, although the changes made will be still available should the community decide that this is necessary. Quest Morian Smith Saradomin crozier 19:35, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

What I cut out was information regarding to the updates that caused the riots and not the actual riots themselves. In addition I did not cut any content regarding to the riots themselves. I cut out around half the words. I did my best to maintain all important aspects of the riot while still making it smaller. I realize that this article is your pet project, but that doesn't mean you get final say what does or does not happen to it. After all, we're all equal here, and no one can own articles. If your only reason for reverting the edits was because it was done without consensus and that you didn't like it, then you had no right to revert it. No one needs consensus for any edits to the mainspace. If, however, you reverted them because you honestly and truly felt that I removed too much information from the article, then by all means I'll take it to the yew grove. I don't want to turn this into a revert war, but I think that you're being unreasonable. Yes I understand you worked hard on this article, but the wiki is supposed to be dynamic. kitty.pngPsycho Robot talkSilver bar 20:54, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

The event happened almost two years ago. A huge number of new players have entered RuneScape since then, and obviously anyone that's just joined is not going to have a decent understanding of what the situation at the time was like. To anyone that wasn't around back then, a lot of the riot's purpose and background is going to sound like giberish. You recently argued that you want to clean up the Wiki, but not to take information away; merely re-organize it. Without that info., the page becomes more difficult to read and even more difficult to fully understand. Now, what you did here is delete an immense amount of information that cannot be found anywhere else on the encyclopedia. Admittedly a lot of the info is not directly a part of the riot, but to my knowledge there aren't a whole lot of other places it can be moved. If you've got any ideas, I'm happy to hear them. My problem here is that this article is nearly two years old, has been nominated for featured status atleast once (turned down due to its controversial nature, not its lack of quality), is the featured article on the community WikiProject, has a five-star article rating, and in all its hundreds of edits and multiple discussions, nobody but you has ever found it too long. But you want to to take away from what has already been accepted by most anyone vocal as a solid article. Its your opinion against theirs. Regardless, a recent Yew Grove discussion leads me to beleive that this and all other community event pages are going to be deleted soon, and I've nearly given this page up for dead. Quest Morian Smith Saradomin crozier 22:17, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

If you are referring to this, then I think you're being a tad melodramatic. No one has posted in support of deleting this nor any other riot article, merely merging them into the Riot article. You need to stop taking things personally. Times change and articles are no longer as relevant as they once were. If you're opposed to change, then you're in the wrong website because a wiki is supposed to change quickly and frequently. Additionally, I maintain that I deleted very little on the subject of the actual riot. I'll just go ahead and list what I removed and why. The first thing I deleted was the introduction:
During the later half of 2007, Jagex had been making many updates to control the macroing and real world trading problems. Updates such as the changes to the Party Room, Lootshare, the Grand Exchange, the assist system, the addition of new random events, and the changes at the Duel Arena had all been designed ultimately to stop macroers and real-world traders, while at the same time giving players alternative methods of playing that were intended not to hinder gameplay. However, many players felt these updates did in fact hurt gameplay.

The tension had been growing, with an increasing anti-Jagex air beginning to surround the forums and game. Already, there had been many rants and several riots, including the Duel Arena Riot. Some players were also inviting others to join. When the Behind the Scenes for December was released, some players feared that the removal of the Wilderness would occur, although these concerns were generally dismissed as unlikely. Tension was growing greatly between players. On December 10, Jagex released the updates listed above, prompting an unprecedented response from players.

All of that information is relevant only to update that caused the riot, not the riot itself. If people really want to know the background, then they'll simply click on the update link at the top and read about them. Just because we can repeat ourselves doesn't mean we should. In the body paragraphs that followed, I removed unnecessarily detailed lists and descriptions of what was done, "fluff" language that is impossible to verify, such as "Nearly everyone on the worlds were involved with the riot" and repetitions of the same basic premise: Players were made at Jagex and were spamming anti-update messages. One such message was "There was much flaming of Andrew Gower and other Jagex moderators and those who attempted to break up". Of course they were flaming Jagex, that's not necessary to re-iterate so late in the article.
The next set of information I removed was a blow-by-blow account of how the riot dyed down over the following days. You devoted a lot of time and space to describe what could be and should be expressed with much more brevity. For example, the 7:00pm log out following the riot. Not only did it fail, but its impossible to verify how many people actually logged out due to the log out, so its not really noteworthy. The following paragraphs basically followed this pattern: Riot calmed down, Jagex announced something, riot calmed down some more, Jagex announced something, until you finally conclude it. That amount of detail is in no way no way necessary and is indicative of a newspaper article rather than an encyclopedic entry. kitty.pngPsycho Robot talkSilver bar 00:12, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

You know what? Do whatever. I'd put up more of a fight if the whole page wasn't on its way out already. Quest Morian Smith Saradomin crozier 00:36, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

666 hidden message

you know, the "F" in falador is the 6th letter, along with world 66.

just an idea but what do some of you think?

I think that is a coincidence... kitty.pngPsycho Robot talkSilver bar 20:40, November 25, 2009 (UTC)
RETURN OF THE WILDERNESS AND FREE TRADE

____________________________________________________________________________

Looks like in the end, the protesters did get what they wanted. The vote has pretty much been secured with an enormous majority voting the return of the wilderness and free trade. I look forward to it.