This talk page is for discussing the Zaros page.
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Knowledge of Guthix

In the lore 'Twice Burnt' when Zamorak alters Perjour's journal he replaces the actuality for an approach on guthixians; therefore wouldn't Zaros have afformented knowledge of Guthix before this? -Kailx

It was never questioned that Zaros knew of a being that people called Guthix. At this point in time, however, Guthix had no activity in the world so Zaros probably thought that Guthix was a minor god or just a false god altogether. The big question is, does Guthix have any knowledge of Zaros. Xicor12345 (talk) 17:14, July 14, 2012 (UTC)
Yes. Re-read the god letters, Guthix categorically states he has no idea who Zaros is. Zaros operated while Guthix was napping. -Phoenixjo
Although, it would be very safe to assume that Zaros had knowledge of Guthix, as did everyone at the time during the Second Age. 23:28, February 27, 2013 (UTC)JeffGC64
It is unknown if Zaros knew Guthix infact, they don't know each otehr at all, no one knew of guthix, besides Saradomin when he met teh Druid, (AOG in Funorb) Guthix was unknown until he awokened durning teh gods war. So from all this information, Guthix is really unknown to Zaros, unless Zaros had another name, and was Mortal once like Guthix.Kinglink15 (talk) 04:18, March 29, 2013 (UTC)Kinglink15Kinglink15 (talk) 04:18, March 29, 2013 (UTC)
Even if Zaros was once a mortal he would have no information about Zaros at all because it was confirmed that he and Saradomin are over 10,000 years old.

Zaros' Allignment

I think I have a theory on Zaros' true allignment, well a few theories, and feel free to rule out any of these options.

1. Is it possible that Zaros' allignment quite literally could be nothing? He is very often referred to as the "Empty Lord", so could this be a literal meaning in which he has no allignment?

2. God of Power? Zaros appears to be very powerful, even his Ancient Curse prayers and Ancient Magics spells both seem to be very powerful and PvP oriented, could this be a possible meaning?

Does anyone else think that these could be likely allignments?

JeffGC64 (talk) 05:29, September 1, 2012 (UTC)JeffGC64

I second this, He is more known as Control, and Manipulated.Kinglink15 (talk) 04:26, March 29, 2013 (UTC)Kinglink15Kinglink15 (talk) 04:26, March 29, 2013 (UTC)

Zaros' allignment was likely kin to chaos, but i think the reason he's refered to as the "Empty lord" isn't because he has a neutral allignment, i think it's be cause all his promises were empty. he didn't do anything that he told the dragonriders or to the humans under viggoras' rule. 23:31, May 20, 2013 (UTC)anon

Um no.. it was Stated on the Video of Q&A lore by Jagex that his alligment is Control. Kinglink15 (talk) 23:43, May 20, 2013 (UTC)

BTW, Zaros was referred to as "The Empty Lord" before he even discovered The Dragon Riders in their Home-World. Also, What did he tell the humans under Viggora's Rule? Sliske symbol Draconis E Talk Illuminated Book of Balance 00:24, May 21, 2013 (UTC)

If I am correct nothing, it might have been teh guy's Theory, and he kept the promises, never showed he broke them. Kinglink15 (talk) 00:28, May 21, 2013 (UTC)

I just read some transcript from the Ancient book and it said: "Fighting oppression is the wisest way, To prove your worth to the Great Lord. Power to the Great Lord!". This could give us some insight to what Zaros' alignment or philosophy is. Maybe he was a benevolent god but, like Saradomin and Armadyl, had to use violence to achieve a greater good. Or, since all the other gods seem to hate Zaros for some reason, he told his followers to defend themselves from the other god factions. What do you think? Sliske symbol Draconis E Talk Illuminated Book of Balance 09:03, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

That's a good theory, but you seem to be forgetting, in the Q&A Video, he was stated to be manipulative, giving one of his philosophy is, Control (they stated it.) His followers, some are Chaotic, and a bit, or mostly evil(Chaer, Nex.) Zaros doesn't care the followers he has, it's as long as he has control (on how I see it) because he lets them do w/e they wish. He is those type of gods that allows his followers to be w/e they want, and allow their action to be their own downfall.Guthix symbol Adventurerrr Talk The Godless symbol 16:46, June 13, 2013 (UTC)
This Isn't about the alignment but it's about all the "Empty Lord" stuff above. Zaros was sometimes referred to as The Empty Lord because he was rarely ever seen, even by his own followers. It means "Empty" as in, not there, absent.  Sliske symbol Draconis E Talk Illuminated Book of Balance 00:36, July 13, 2013 (UTC)

Is he a good guy? - Depends on your perspective

It has come to my attention that Zaros has little information, and it is hard to tell rather he is a good god, or a bad god. Based on his actions during the God Wars, I look at Zaros as a terrbile god. Sure, he is VERY powerful, but did he use this said power to good use? Also, based on his KNOWN followers (I'm reffering to Nex and other God Wars-related enemies), he is thought to be a bad guy. He seems like the kind of guy who you would lie to a little kid saying "Zaros is a good god! The Great Lord will save us all!" and then he turns out to be a bad guy. So, who knows if he is a good guy or not? I'm not sure yet. God of the Forge 15:45, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

To correct somethings, Zaros was never in the Gods War, the Gods war happened after his death, when Zamorak returned, It was stated that some followers do things that are not needed, just for the sake of Zaros, (Nex, Char, and Sliske) Zaros might be a Good god, but then again, he can manipulate a lot of people, and could be a bad god. All that is known, is that he had a powerful empire, so of course he would have a lot of enemies.Kinglink15 (talk) 04:24, March 29, 2013 (UTC)Kinglink15Kinglink15 (talk) 04:24, March 29, 2013 (UTC)
It's been said many times.. god or bad, or even evil... entirely depends on your perspective/alignment. Jagex said this... and even Saradomin hinted this when he talks about Guthix ideas are flawed, while agreeing in principle.. or something like that. . . . Yours, Void Knight banner Enquidou Talk Quest Icon Crest . . 10:31, April 18, 2013 (UTC)
wrong on some part, it is our choice, but it was stated he is control, manipulative, so he could be good, but in his way manipulates, or he is evil. Saradomin only talked about Guthix also looking for peace, like Saradomin is, but disagrees on how Guthix viewed and wanted the peace. Saradomin by his followers is Order, but we all saw his way of order was by force. Yes, it is our choice to pick if he is good or not. But until we see Zaros return, and know his true side, Like I do, I see him as a control side, maybe good. --Kinglink15 (talk) 23:22, April 18, 2013 (UTC)
So... please explain further.. how my statement was wrong, because I'm lost - or were you not responding to me, Kinglink15? ;) . . . Yours, Void Knight banner Enquidou Talk Quest Icon Crest . . 12:43, April 19, 2013 (UTC)+
Just the Saradomin part. Kinglink15 (talk) 16:58, April 21, 2013 (UTC)
...So how?-- . . . Yours, Void Knight banner Enquidou Talk Quest Icon Crest . . 17:10, April 21, 2013 (UTC)
Saradomin agreed with the Idea of peace, but disagreeing on how Guthix wanted it, both in the Gods letter, and the quest showed it, as he did state it. I pretty much tell you on what on my respond.Kinglink15 (talk) 17:15, April 21, 2013 (UTC)
You say that you only corrected my on the Saradomin part.. but in that part you actually agree, when you seemed to disagreed with me on the part of good/evil being depended on your own point of view.. Btw, you do know the God letters are not considered canonical, right? . . . Yours, Void Knight banner Enquidou Talk Quest Icon Crest . . 17:31, April 21, 2013 (UTC)
I doKinglink15 (talk) 19:19, April 21, 2013 (UTC)

Zarosian Teleport

I recently bought the Zarosian War Teleport from solomons general store and (If you haven't seen it, it should be somewhere on this wiki) whenever you activate it 3 dragon heads come up and you turn into some vampyre-type creature with no legs but instead a tail. Then I zoomed in the camera and realised that the Dragon heads actually look more like Dragonkin! I showed it to my friend and she theorised that the dragonkin (or at least some of them) allied with Zaros for some time hoping that, since Zaros is the most powerful of the young gods, Zaros would break their curse in return for their Service. Can someone please tell me what's happening? Sliske symbol Draconis E Talk Illuminated Book of Balance 01:57, April 18, 2013 (UTC)

Not really I respect your theory but not really lol. Don't forget he had dragon riders following him. That's one. Two Guthix was the strongest. Zaros was strongest known because of him being more active during his empire age. The dragonkins wouldn't do anything with anyone unless it has to do with the stone of jas. again the dragon head u see could just be dragons due to Zaros having dragon riders as him followers as well. Kinglink15 (talk) 13:20, April 18, 2013 (UTC)
Just like the God letters(confirmed) and Postbag from the Hedge(not confirmed or denied actually, but likely, imo) are not to be considered canon, I think SGS and SoF are also not really canon. I agree it's an interesting thought, and I can see Zaros pulling a trick like that - God of Control as he is... But I wouldn't really think much of it. :(
Such a damn shame that quests take more time to develop nowadays :P CAN'T WAIT!! . . . Yours, Void Knight banner Enquidou Talk Quest Icon Crest . . 12:50, April 19, 2013 (UTC)
I know Guthix was the strongest young God lol, I just thought that if they really were allied with Zaros for some time then maybe they did so because they either; possessed no knowledge of Guthix at the time or simply couldn't locate his resting place. Sliske symbol Draconis E Talk Illuminated Book of Balance 00:12, April 21, 2013 (UTC)
True, BUT like I said, they wouldn't, and it might be dragon riders. Dragonkin only respond to the "stone Touchers" that miss use the stone.Kinglink15 (talk) 17:12, April 21, 2013 (UTC)
Hmm I don't think you could know that they wouldn't. The only thing we really do know is that they respond to 'stone touchers' that are.. 'false users', aka non-gods (if non-false user means: elder/younger god, or is even more strict: the three Gielinor creator gods, or even only Jas - we don't know). We also know that they get pain if the stone is touched by a false user, and that the pain stops when they prevent it. They want to get rid of the pain... so that's why e.g. Kerapac tried to get rid of the pain. They're not gods themselves, the Dragonkin, so they might trust Guthix, Zaros or other gods to be able to help, like Kerapac tried. ... Anyway we don't know, there's nothing to suggest this, so... all we can say is: nice idea, maybe Mod Osborne can work with it. . . . Yours, Void Knight banner Enquidou Talk Quest Icon Crest . . 10:21, April 25, 2013 (UTC)

Zarosian Colours

Shouldn't there be more zarosian colours put up on the article? The colours I know of that DEFINETLEY are Zarosian are the colours at the Temple at Senntisten. I think they're Purple, Teal Black, White and Gold. They're all at The Temple at Senntisten so they must be Zarosian colours. Sliske symbol Draconis E Talk Illuminated Book of Balance 01:13, April 26, 2013 (UTC)

Godhood Tier

Ok, I got no problem adding that to all the gods now but, where and whem did it state his Godhood Tier is 2? it is still unknown what the God Tiers are. I can understand it would be 2 due to him being out of a body, but the Tiers are still unknown and be best left alone until further quests can be shown about it. Kinglink15 (talk) 16:10, April 28, 2013 (UTC)

yeah... you do have a point... Osborne only said that [Guthix] and [Zaros at the peak of his power] (just before Zamorak bitch slapped him) were on tier 2. What Zaros is now, during his outer body experience, we don't know -- I'm sure he's not as strong. For the rest we only know three tiers in total: 1, 2 and 7, and not much is known about those actually. So caution is advised :3 . . . Yours, Void Knight banner Enquidou Talk Quest Icon Crest . . 16:24, April 28, 2013 (UTC)
Then in the article, it should be stated some where his tier use to be, and I was surprised when he said both are in tier two, due for Guthix being the strongest of teh youngest god, and Zaros being second strongest, meaning the rest of the gods are tier one. But then again, this would be said the tier before Guthix awake, after all, being strong enough to open portals with out teh sword, is impressive. Kinglink15 (talk) 16:30, April 28, 2013 (UTC)
No.. Tier 1 is the strongest and 7 the weakest: 1=elder gods, 7=(some - all?) desert gods. And if they are both classed on the same tier, they could differ in power, just like you would be classed with boxing. Or maybe a better example is the weapons you can use in RS: tier 50=rune, but with lvl 56 att&str you're still more strong that some one with 53 att&str. And go figure, if you have to place something like 20 gods in that system it would seem odd to me if they're all just as strong when they occupy the same tier, and get a sudden increase in power if you rise a tier: I think you should see the tiers are more fluid/gradient rather than imagine it in strong borderline fashion. . . . Yours, Void Knight banner Enquidou Talk Quest Icon Crest . . 16:40, April 28, 2013 (UTC)
Damn my ear plugs needs changing, ook, thanks for tellnig me then. Then we should add their Tier, and for the others, we can add 3? (maybe not, due for bandos being weakened after teh Chosen Commander) But for the rest, what do you thin kwe can do? Kinglink15 (talk) 16:48, April 28, 2013 (UTC)
Well we don't know what Bandos' tier is we don't even know where Saradomin would fit (I imagine 2, since Osborne said he was probably one of the or the oldest of the younger gods) but that's not mentioned anywhere. And also Bandos was not weakened for as much as I know. His ways of contacting where simply eliminated (the necklace/amulet/what-ever-it-was got destroyed if I'm correct, only his Avatar got defeated. . . . Yours, Void Knight banner Enquidou Talk Quest Icon Crest . . 16:57, April 28, 2013 (UTC)
IDk if he was also, the cave goblin's were statting it. But yes, i guess we can wait for the other, and even if Saradomin is oldest, he could be in tier 3. I mean, who knows, he was with teh crown more, and less with the jas. Kinglink15 (talk) 17:00, April 28, 2013 (UTC)
idk... Sara could be tier 5 too... who knows what happened in the meanwhile :P silly rhetorical question, Mod Osborne knows... . . . Yours, Void Knight banner Enquidou Talk Quest Icon Crest . . 17:28, April 28, 2013 (UTC)

Why does this page describe Zaros as evil now? I thought in the livestream it was confirmed he was neither good or evil.

PindaZwerver (talk) 22:58, June 1, 2013 (UTC)

it describes his ACTIONS to seem evil, and Saradomin to seem evil, and His followers, some to have been doing "evil" but he isn't said to be evil. In teh livestream he is said to be the god of control, and with the new Update, also Fate. Guthix symbol Adventurerrr Talk The Godless symbol 23:11, June 1, 2013 (UTC)

Well it seems one person wants Tier of Zaros to be how it is now. I talked to a admin once and it was suggested that keeping it "Before defeat" would look better. But it seems that it went on for some time, so, I ask you all, Would you want it before defeat? or just leave it how it is?Guthix symbol Adventurerrr Talk The Godless symbol 20:11, June 9, 2013 (UTC)

We have no idea what his tier is at the moment, so leaving it as his 'before defeat' tier, with a disclaimer that he could be considerably weaker now, is what I would go for. Snowskeeper---Till Hell Freezes Over. (talk) 21:01, June 9, 2013 (UTC)

Ok, anyone else like to be a voice?Guthix symbol Adventurerrr Talk The Godless symbol 01:10, June 10, 2013 (UTC)

The Warring

You guys are warring to much! Stop reverting the page you are brining out the miss spelling words and taking off information given. Keep his Tier, remove the rest. Period. I talked to a few admin and they told me to keep the Tier in wording of "Before Deafeat" Because that's how far we know of him. Guthix symbol Adventurerrr Talk The Godless symbol 10:16, June 4, 2013 (UTC)

Admins are normal people... their opinion and behaviour counts just as much as any-one else's. We know know Zaros tier before his defeat (or better worded: at the height of his powers) , which is 2; but we also know that after his defeat he lost power and is at least a tier lower, but we don't know how much. IF the latter claim needs a source, the first needs one too - and to the same degree. . . . Yours, Void Knight banner Enquidou Talk Quest Icon Crest . . 10:37, June 4, 2013 (UTC)
Actually, no, for the purposes of this wiki Admins are NOT normal people, and if they tell you to stop doing something, you should really listen. There is no definite information about how much power, if any, Zaros permanently lost. And by the way, there is no 'tier' system that I know about in existence--just the systems of Elder vs. Younger gods, the latter of which Zaros was originally a part of. To me, it sounds a lot like you're using stating headcanon as fact.
The fact that "Jmods haven't said he didn't lose any powers" does not mean that he lost power. It doesn't mean that he didn't, but they haven't said he lost permanent power either.
Don't get me wrong; I agree with you. Having Zaros be drastically more powerful than the other Gods would be unfair for all involved, since it would mean that when he finally does re-enter the affairs of Gielnor fully he'll basically kick everything's collective asses. But there is no proof yet, so until there is, don't edit the information in. Or if you do, make it a kind of disclaimer in the Trivia section: "Zaros may have permanently lost some of his power due to the effects of the Staff of Armadyl." This would be fair, and I doubt it would provoke nearly as much debate. Snowskeeper---Till Hell Freezes Over. (talk) 14:13, June 4, 2013 (UTC)
there is a tier system, something yet given by Jages ad they are still working on it. Zaros and Guthix were in tier two( before Zaros defeat, and before guthix died. It was stated that guthix beings the powerful Zaroa was second powerful but not powerful enough to take all the Gods on his own one on 3 or more. The Tier system is yet to be stated because it is something their looking at them selves. They already told us some of the gods tier but not all of them. But really this warring needs to stop because not only do I get spam emails from silly things that was stated and proven in Rune Zone radio but fact that it goes back to the error of typos and spellings..Guthix symbol Adventurerrr Talk The Godless symbol 14:46, June 4, 2013 (UTC)
Alright, thanks for the correction. I wasn't aware of it, and it certainly doesn't seem that it's developed properly yet, all things considered. Guthix was powerful enough to banish all of the Young Gods involved in the God Wars without the assistance of the Stone of Jas, so wouldn't that mean that Zaros would be that powerful as well if he's on the same tier?
In any case, the admins have said 'stop,' so it needs to stop or this page will be edit-locked. Snowskeeper---Till Hell Freezes Over. (talk) 15:34, June 4, 2013 (UTC)
No, as I stated before, Zaros wasn't strong as Guthix, to be able to do something like that. They are in the same tier, but one is stronger than the other. It is unknown of Zaros powers, and the kind that he has, we know he has a few, but it is unknown all of his abilities. Note, Guthix banned every god, even those who weren't in teh Gods war, he made a magical barrier around Gielinor to prevent teh gods from walking  on Gielinor. Only exception are the Desert gods. (Not Tumeken from theory.) They are low tier gods, being 7-6, weakest of the Tier. Even Seren, who was not involved with the war was also bound by the Edict.Guthix symbol Adventurerrr Talk The Godless symbol 21:27, June 4, 2013 (UTC)
  • According to Mod Mark, in his friend chat, a Zaros Godsword won't be created because Zaros is too powerful for a godsword. The only appropriate weapon for him would be to literally wield "a god that was holding a sword", implying that Zaros may be much more powerful than originally thought.

Would this "god that was holding a sword" be Sliske? Azzandra believes he still works for the good of Zaros. Perhaps Sliske is Zaros' Perfect Weapon. 14:05, June 20, 2013 (UTC)Anonymous Proxy

No, Mod Mark was just stating that Zaros just doesn't need a Godsword, because it isn't "To cool" for him. Sliske got nothing to do with this. Pretty much meaning a Godsword would be a waste of their time Making. And if they did make him one, it would overpower the rest of the Godsword Guthix symbol Adventurerrr Talk The Godless symbol 15:05, June 20, 2013 (UTC)

Hey do we have details as to the exact location the Betrayal to place?

No, no information was given to where as far as I know, also, please Sign when you are done posting.Guthix symbol Adventurerrr Talk The Godless symbol 05:11, June 21, 2013 (UTC)
Origins of Gielinor video shows the betrayal occuring just outside of Ghorrock, while the Zaros section in The Book of The Gods states that the betrayal happened in Zaros's palace. Persoanlly, I think the palace one is correct cos the book of the gods was released after the origins of gielinor video. Sliske symbol Draconis E Talk Illuminated Book of Balance 07:23, August 11, 2013 (UTC)


Well Where is the Q&A? I mean, I am not saying you are wrong, but I wish to see it. Thing is, placing him the god of ambition wouldn't really make sense (on how I see it), ambition means when a person desires something badly, WE can put that that he is a ambitiousless God. With proof of Osborne saying he is, (Unless he said "god of ambition.") So I think it could be better changed to "An ambitiousless."Guthix symbol Adventurerrr Talk The Godless symbol 20:23, June 26, 2013 (UTC)

"ambitiousness god"? Ambitiousness is not an adjective. MolMan 20:41, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
ambitionless is what I meant to type, My PC must have auto corrected. I'll correct that, but, Do you agree with me Mol Man? or were you just here to correct me?Guthix symbol Adventurerrr Talk The Godless symbol 20:47, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
The latter. Well, I'm all done here. Have a good one. MolMan 20:49, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
'twas in the Mod Osborne's Lore Answers thing or the November lore video. Either way, ambition goes well with control and makes much, much more sense than 'fate'. 18px-Avatar.png Fswe1 26px-Brassica_Prime_symbol.svg.png 07:05, June 27, 2013 (UTC)


I don't understand how the words "Zaros also represents shadow, emptiness, evil and absence." has Bias when it came from this website. RS players may have edited it but if Jagex Mods/Employees saw there was Bias and speculation on the page then the edit would have been reverted. If it's still there then Jagex obviously approves of it. Sliske symbol Draconis E Talk Illuminated Book of Balance 00:45, July 13, 2013 (UTC)

The RuneScape wiki is not considered to be a reliable source for referencing. Although it may be run by Jagex that does not make it 100% true or reliable. Just look at the bottom of the article: "Possibly Glarial (as, although she was an elf, her coffin has the symbol of Zaros on it)". If the wiki were really approved would the Jmods want to have something like that on the page? Also, it's been stated before in the past that he is NOT the god of evil Template:Signatures/Ciphrius Kane 00:59, July 13, 2013 (UTC)
It never said Zaros was the god of evil, that's an entirely different argument. They put "Possibly Glarial" because either jagex doesn't wanna reveal it or it's irrelevant to the other/upcoming storylines. And Jagex made Runescape so.... Sliske symbol Draconis E Talk Illuminated Book of Balance 01:07, July 13, 2013 (UTC)
Or it's unreliable. As far as I know they have 2 Jmods managing the wiki. Do you really expect them to be able to check and approve every single edit? And if they don't want spoilers or it's irrelevant, why not remove it? Template:Signatures/Ciphrius Kane 01:12, July 13, 2013 (UTC)
They put a warning that there's spoilers and they put it in the trivia because "trivia" is interesting to note but not really relevant pieces of information. Sliske symbol Draconis E Talk Illuminated Book of Balance 01:15, July 13, 2013 (UTC)
Yes, in relation to what has already happened. They're leaving the warning for those who haven't done quests like TTAS or ROTM so that they can enjoy the quest without it being ruined. I highly doubt they're going to put what's going to happen on the wiki Template:Signatures/Ciphrius Kane 01:22, July 13, 2013 (UTC)
Glarial has been confirmed to be Serenist in the November lore video. Also, saying "Zaros represents evil" is totally not biased. </sarcasm> 18px-Avatar.png Fswe1 26px-Brassica_Prime_symbol.svg.png 07:36, July 13, 2013 (UTC)
Mod Crow posted it Here so.....
"A La Sombra is an uncommon prize won in the Squeal of Fortune. Like the other masks, it is themed on a god, in this case Zaros, the God of fate and Control. Its name is in Spanish, and translates to "The Shadow"." Further proof he represents shadow. Sliske symbol Draconis E Talk Illuminated Book of Balance 10:20, July 26, 2013 (UTC)
Doesn't matter what Crow said. Jmod bias doesn't make it non-bias. As for the mask, that refers to Zaros being mysterious and controlling from the shadow. Doesn't mean he's evil. 18px-Avatar.png Fswe1 26px-Brassica_Prime_symbol.svg.png 15:00, July 26, 2013 (UTC)
Let's get rid of the evil thing, i'm saying he represents shadow. How does a Jmod's basic rundown of Zaros mean he has bias? Jagex makes Runescape and it's lore, Jmods work for Jagex, meaning they help make the game, meaning unless they're proved to be wrong/have bias then what they say is true. Jmods have made mistakes in the past but as far as we know this isn't a mistake. Sliske symbol Draconis E Talk Illuminated Book of Balance 00:02, July 27, 2013 (UTC)
I just noticed this argument we had ages ago, just to be sure, do you agree with the shadow thing or not? I can provide more proof from Mod Osborne if you like. Sliske symbol Draconis E Talk Illuminated Book of Balance 07:18, August 11, 2013 (UTC)


The recent Zaros post in this topic makes me wonder... Many followers are explicitly listed, Sliske isn't? Yes, he has his own faction all to himself, but can this be taken as some sort of confirmation that he is no longer loyal to Zaros? IP83.101.44.209 (talk) 16:21, July 15, 2013 (UTC)

What we know about Sliske's intentions is that we don't know his intentions Template:Signatures/Ciphrius Kane 16:23, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
Sliske's allegiance and status (god or not) are currently under great debate, and Jagex wants to maintain that uncertainty for a while (I would imagine until Missing, Presumed Death). So it would be foolish, not just because Sliske has a faction at the moment and it would create confusion to list him under the followers, but because it would dissipate that uncertainty prematurely. Also, bear in mind they also didn't list Wahisietel, Torva, Pernix, Virtus, Dagroda, Lamarinta etc, yet we know of their Zarosianism. Besides, they only provided a small sample of names, not the full list. They also didn't include Bilrach or Moia or Zemouregal on the followers of Zamorak list, but we know of their allegiance. I wouldn't take it as confirmation, basically. 16:33, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
Aren't Torva, Pernix, and Virtus all dead and six-feet-under? Not sure on the others. It makes sense not to list past followers. IP83.101.44.209 (talk) 16:38, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
(Edit conflict). Agreed, but an exclusion from a list of known followers seems like a big thing... This isn't exactly a case of "us watching Sliske being secretive"; this is a lore post made outside of the actual story. Ah well, then again, including him would either be false or could be seen as a revelation all the same. Couldn't they have semi-included him at least? :P . IP83.101.44.209 (talk) 16:37, July 15, 2013 (UTC)

Mod Jack on Zaros

I've cited an thread with posts by Mod Jack in them about and on the subject of Zaros. Here's the link: To quote him, "Zaros was not nice."

-- 01:51, September 2, 2013 (UTC)
"Is not nice" Pretty much he is saying that Zaros is the type of god who wants best for the world, and if who agree that the world should be in mortals in like Guthix/Godless, he would help, but he isn't a nice God, he would put you down with words if he can. Seems Legit.Guthix symbol Adventurerrr Talk The Godless symbol 02:06, September 2, 2013 (UTC)
Zamorak isn't nice, Bandos isn't nice, Saradomin is definitley not nice (He's short tempered), Tuska isn't nice, Skargaroth isn't nice, The Freneskae creatore god isn't nice. Lord Nexius 00:49, September 25, 2013 (UTC)
Idk about the Creator god, was it confirmed by Mods that Mahjerrates rumor were true? Anywho, yeah, all Gods besides Seren, is not nice, well I mean the big ones. The smaller ones are okish.Guthix symbol Adventurerrr Talk The Godless symbol 00:58, September 25, 2013 (UTC)

Zarosian Haze

Hi all. Does anyone have a piccy of the Zarosian haze above his podium during MPD? I have one, but it's quite poor quality so I am loath to upload it. Cheers guys --Akthanakos camel chathead Karimabuseer Talk Azzanadra ghost 22:33, October 17, 2013 (UTC)

Here is a picture of the haze, if anyone wants! It's a simple print screen with a very zoomed out camera --Akthanakos camel chathead Karimabuseer Talk Azzanadra ghost 22:37, October 17, 2013 (UTC)

Image removed. We've had that uploaded a few times, and due to the lack of quality (sorry) of every upload, it's been decided that words will suffice for the haze. Small recharge gem AnselaJonla Slayer-icon 23:14, October 17, 2013 (UTC)

Zaros 'Race'

So, I looked, seems that his race is "Ancient", um, where did it say he is that, and that "Ancient" is a race? for all that is known he was never mortal, better off saying his race is a god.Guthix symbol Adventurerrr Talk The Godless symbol 15:50, October 18, 2013 (UTC)

Zaros concept art correction

At exactly 2:18:04 in the livestream on Twitch that is 4:35:01 hours long, Mod Mark states that this is what Zaros will look like when he returns with the quote " And throughout the quest you'll be faced with different choices. And the choices that you make, the choices on whether you want to support Zaros, or rather, that you're against Zaros; will change the kind of form that Zaros will take. If you work really hard, he might look something, like this" And then at exactly 2:18:17 he showed us that concept art. So this concept art is Zaros's 6th age form, NOT his second age. However, his 2nd age and 6th age forms can be identical... have we considered that? --Runic Lord (talk) 10:44, November 3, 2013 (UTC)

Work really hard as in, return him to his original body. And that is DEFINITELY his original body, hence the SOA wound. That form of Zaros was what he looked in like Mod Jacks (admittedly uncanon) comic, too. Wahisietel rejuvenated chathead Wahisietel (Talk) Quest map icon 15:50, November 3, 2013 (UTC)

Zaros and Seren being the same race?

Ok, so I studied concept arts for incorporeal Zaros and Seren and they have surprisingly much in common. They have similiar patterns of their faces, nearly identical spiky things attached to their arms, elbows, hips in almost the same manner. Also, both were tier 2 at one point and both can still live without their bodies. It's of course a theory, but it might be worth noticing somewhere. Just have a look at this image.--Mariobaryla (talk) 11:06, November 3, 2013 (UTC)

I completely agree... there's only one problem: this would make Zaros less unique. I remember Jagex saying that Zaros would be one of a kind (and I think they meant this regardless of gender/s3x, although I could eb wrong about this and I will have no point to argue with :P). Although they said Zaros would be crystally, or somethign like that, and Seren is... widely known to be crystally too, I still think the point of one-of-a-kind stands. . . . Yours, Void Knight banner Enquidou Talk Quest Icon Crest . . 11:11, November 3, 2013 (UTC)
I disagree, this is a good theory, but the problem is this, they stated Zaro was never mortal, and he never accended to godhood. Seren was hinted and stated she has accended. So they wouldn't be in the same race.Guthix symbol Adventurerrr Talk The Godless symbol 16:01, November 3, 2013 (UTC)
Ah.. well said! Sort of forgot about that :P another problem. But... Jagex can still change that if they want to. It's not set in stone. Elder gods were male, now female. Sara & Zammy were T3 before BoL, now they changed that to T4. That said: I would them to not change this. I would like the choice to give Zaros a male or female body, though :P  . . . Yours, Void Knight banner Enquidou Talk Quest Icon Crest . . 16:11, November 3, 2013 (UTC)

It would be foolish to say they aren't related in some manner, it's quite obvious that they are. Perhaps Seren is a part of Zaros that split off from the rest? The part with emotions, of which Zaros has none. Who knows. Wahisietel rejuvenated chathead Wahisietel (Talk) Quest map icon 16:13, November 3, 2013 (UTC)

Zaros was created by the elder gods it seems, plus they never stated Zaros history or lore about him until this year where gods are far more interesting now. And I think the only relation they would have, is the same power to leave their body. Other than that, nothing else besides the same tier. But yes, they could change the lore, but for now, all is unknown.Guthix symbol Adventurerrr Talk The Godless symbol 16:22, November 3, 2013 (UTC)
Oh, we know from a podcast that Zaros has some kind of relationship with another god. In Twice Burnt, Zaros is worried about Seren. And they look really similar. So I'm saying, they were originally the same being, created by the elder gods, split in half, with Zaros being the controlling, dominant side, with Seren being the emotive, peaceful and submissive side. Wahisietel rejuvenated chathead Wahisietel (Talk) Quest map icon 16:42, November 3, 2013 (UTC)
Hmm... "they were originally the same being"... do you mean you know (source?) this, or are merly speculating? We should be clear about that xD  . . . Yours, Void Knight banner Enquidou Talk Quest Icon Crest . . 17:03, November 3, 2013 (UTC)
Also could you quote the part about him being worried about Seren, please? . . . Yours, Void Knight banner Enquidou Talk Quest Icon Crest . . 17:05, November 3, 2013 (UTC)
It's speculation. Also, I was wrong, it's actually from the Book of Char: "He was curious of the activity of the ‘goddess’ Seren, hidden away in her crystalline city, and wished to send a party of the most trusted followers to scout the area, or so he claimed. When he told me, something seemed wrong, Zaros was troubled, I could feel it." Wahisietel rejuvenated chathead Wahisietel (Talk) Quest map icon 17:10, November 3, 2013 (UTC)
Ah, I thought so :P I remember that line too.. that's partially why I think Zaros woul think Seren as an equal, the relationship you referred to (and not Sliske or another one, like some people seem to think). I don't think he was worried or concerned about her. idk what I should further speculate... well, perhaps he was troubled that he didn't know anything of her, while he could feel her power. Something he must understand. . . . Yours, Void Knight banner Enquidou Talk Quest Icon Crest . . 17:38, November 3, 2013 (UTC)

Zaros' creator?

Compare these two pictures:

1. Elder_god_concept_art.png

2. Zaros_is_back_concept.png

The eyes of both Zaros and the unnamed Elder God from these concept arts seem to be of the same form and proportions. Could there be a possibility that the Elder Gods created Zaros based from their own looks based on these two pictures? 23:45, November 7, 2013 (UTC)marl

Haha, nice! So something like this: "So the unnamed Elder Goddess created Zaros and Seren in her own image, in the image of the Elder Goddess she created them; male and female she created them." RuneScape Lore bible, chapter: Divine Genesis 1:27.
Sure, could well be possible. idk why not actually. The elder gods also don't have mouths or ways of communicating on their own... Zaros also has a prostetic mouth on his armour. I could see that happening xD . . . Yours, Void Knight banner Enquidou Talk Quest Icon Crest . . 11:43, November 8, 2013 (UTC)
Interesting theory, and it seems quite likely as well. It has been said by Mod Osborne somewhere that zaros didn't ascend to godhood, so that means he has been created as a god directly. This seems to only be possible from the hands of an Elder God. I like to think that Zaros is the "avatar" of one of the Elder Gods, who can walk the planes they created. Dragon dagger AmoVos 11:47, November 8, 2013 (UTC)
Even more so, maybe Zaros is one of the Elder Artefacts? Dragon dagger AmoVos 11:48, November 8, 2013 (UTC)
Well... if I remember correctly... they (Jagex) literally said that the Elder gods created him (idk if they said multiple or just one). I also remember them saying that he's not an elder artefact, but not hte reason why. Gods and Artefacts to seem different in my eyes... but Osborne also said they were considering Elder Artefacts with souls.. and the TokHaar are mentioned in one breath with the Elder Kiln - an Elder artefact. So it'sa bit too iffy in my humble opinion.  . . . Yours, Void Knight banner Enquidou Talk Quest Icon Crest . . 11:57, November 8, 2013 (UTC)
Btw, I love your idea: T7=(Possible) avatar for younger gods, T2=(Possible) avatar for Elder gods. Really nice!  . . . Yours, Void Knight banner Enquidou Talk Quest Icon Crest . . 12:03, November 8, 2013 (UTC)
Zaros is/was immensely powerful, so if he were an avatar of the Elder Gods, that could mean it comes with a lot of power as well. Maybe he himself is (unknowingly) directly or indirectly controlled by an Elder God, so the Elders may maintain some sort of control over their created planes? Dragon dagger AmoVos 12:07, November 8, 2013 (UTC)
The way i see it, Elder Gods cannot interact directly with their creations, and need some sort of medium to do so. Dragon dagger AmoVos 12:08, November 8, 2013 (UTC)
Hahaha the irony!! I almost want to demand Jagex/Osborne to adopt this view! --- "maybe he himself is (unknowingly) directly or indirectly controlled by an Elder God" --- it's really nice :3 
although, I don't think it's likely.. they (Jagex) also said the Elder Gods are not at all aware of the fauna of RuneScape, they only want and created (some of) the flora. I think if Zaros is an avatar... the Elder god controlling/linked to him would... sort of know of at least some of the fauna and related things. Unless these Elder Avatars work completely different from the Bandos Avater (and likely the Desert Avatars). . . . Yours, Void Knight banner Enquidou Talk Quest Icon Crest . . 12:19, November 8, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, it does not sound very likely, but until we know more it is a (small) possibility =] Dragon dagger AmoVos 12:24, November 8, 2013 (UTC)

Certainly :3  . . . Yours, Void Knight banner Enquidou Talk Quest Icon Crest . . 12:31, November 8, 2013 (UTC)

Lore information

Alright, time for some cleanup and tons of new information.

Recently there was a JMod post on the Lore Discussions forums with alot of new lore on Zaros. Now I skimmed through the Zaros page recently and if I'm not mistaken, I saw none of this new lore on there. I'll sum it up quickly here, I'll find the sources and edit the main page at a later point. For any Zaros fans, note that the entire point of this new lore posted by the JMod was meant to be negative about Zaros, becasue they felt he lacked any truly negative sides to him. (Since I haven't checked the source itself in some time now, some of the summary below might be wrong on certain points, but it's generally true. Like I wrote earlier though, I'll check the source itself before editing the main page).

- Zaros thinks like the Elder Gods that created him, he doesn't posess any mortal emotions and cannot 'think' like a mortal.

- Despite the information above, he is apparently a coward, and refuses to engage in personal combat or even dare show himself in public (even before Zamoraks betrayal). The only time (known so far) Zaros ever engaged in personal combat or actualy physical contact with someone else, was when he first arrived on Gielinor (somewhere around the Desert?) and fought a long forgotten god there and defeated him/her, conquered the land and its people with it.

- According to how Saradomin interpreted it, Zaros literally brainwashed the people he conquered. (Personal input: Probably due to him not being able to think like mortals, thinking there's nothing wrong with brainwashing the people who were anyways only meant to do manual labour).

- Zaros' Empire was a terrible place to live in, atleast for humans, it was unsafe and extremely harsh, but strangely at the same time the Empire also had access to more material wealth and access to more luxuaries and higher education than other kingdoms and empires at the time. (Personal input: Probably because Zaros was the strongest god at the time, but remember the brainwashing part, which probably made it all possible).

- Saradomin took better care of his followers than Zaros, despite Zaros' Empire having access to more material wealth.

- Zaros's goals does not include the well being and safety of his followers, not even the Empire was a goal, it was all just a tool for a higher goal, ONLY known to Zaros (thus the Emissary of Zaros is actually spreading false information).

This is a big one, in my opinion:

- Zaros would sacrifice his entire empire, and indeed even the lives of every single one of his followers, before even putting himself in a situation that could be considered dangerous in any way.

 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sir Asgeir (talk) on 22:34, December 8, 2013.

Linking to a source would be awesome. IP83.101.44.209 (talk) 05:24, December 9, 2013 (UTC)said,342,269,65208855,35,328676224#35

It was all Mod Jack, so you can look up his forum profile and browse the relevant threads. Once I get round to rewriting Zaros' article, because it's truly horrible, I'll make sure to include all this. 18px-Avatar.png Fswe1 26px-Brassica_Prime_symbol.svg.png 08:39, December 9, 2013 (UTC)
Here is one of the quotes, about his cowardice and that he would sacrifice his entire empire before putting himself in danger:

Mod Jack : After arriving on Gielinor in the Second Age, Zaros fought in personal combat only twice. Once at the very start of the invasion against the god who was occupying the region where he arrived, and once at the height of the empire against Zamorak.Zaros hates direct physical intervention of any sort. He would never fight personally against a god if he could possibly avoid it, and would certainly never get out and fight on the battlefield. It's partly distaste for a "lesser" form of interaction, and partly a sort of cowardice and self-preservation which makes sense when you're as old and (in his opinion) important as Zaros is.Zaros would have sacrificed his entire empire before putting himself in danger. - Source: 

Btw, I'm new to this wiki site, so I'm a bit unsure as to how this Talk: thing works, the posts I make might look a bit weird lol, such as the source for the quote above appearing above the quote itself rather than after.

Here's a bit more:

Mod Jack: The vast majority of humans in the Zarosian Empire were unsafe, unhappy, unprosperous. Just throwing that out there.


And here is some information I see for the first time, although it doesn't have anything to do with my original intent here, I think this gives us a glimpse into how Jagex images Zaros:

Mod Jack: Speaking personally, I love Zaros as a villain, not as a master. Not all JMods feel the same way though, and not all villains are as crude and obvious as Bandos is.

We see an interesting spread of that on this forum. We say "Zaros is about control" and half the forum say "Control? Control is smothering and evil!" and the other half say "Control? Control is protective and good!" It says much more about the players involved than company policy. (Note that I would include JMods as players in the case where they express a personal preference either way.)


(I have no idea why the text I copy & paste looks like that).

After reading another post from Mod Jack, it would seem all of this should not be considered canon, or atleast taken with a grain of salt. As such, I'll wait until further word from Mod Jack or until the above is implemented in-game, before editing the main article.  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sir Asgeir (talk) on 19:25, December 12, 2013.

Questioning the Reliability of Chapter 4 in Book of Zaros

Gotta question the reliability of chapter 4 in book of Zaros. Cause he could not interact or contact his followers in any way during the 5th age until we reopened the communion portal. The desert bandits and the followers in ancient prison are also still alive. What if chapter 4 may merely be telling us that nobody knows what Zaros wants and Amelia was just guessing, what if her vision may have been a hallucination before death? Cause Soran says "Who am I to know what he wants?" and the only thing we know about Zaros is that he doesn't understand the concept of revenge and doesn't want endless war but he says the rest, nobody knows for sure.

If Zaros has power over fate he will also no longer have to fear betrayal and can remove the option to betray or disagree with him from "free will" and can continue to make another Zarosian empire without fear of betrayal as the option would no longer exist if he gets power over fate.

Also what could Mod Osborne mean by "Become fate"? In what way? Comrade Sky (talk) 03:47, February 8, 2014 (UTC)

It is written by his followers, they believe he will be fate himself, And "become fate" is by controling everything that he can, life, death, and mortals choices.Guthix symbol Adventurerrr Talk The Godless symbol 03:52, February 8, 2014 (UTC)
But becoming fate in which way? Like being a puppet master using his corporeal body and manipulating everyone? What would his corporeal body be for? Question is, he also seems to be happy when you make him more known in Death of Chivalry if you pick the Zaros dialogue. There are other sources that contradict him not wanting followers and such. Comrade Sky (talk) 06:23, February 8, 2014 (UTC)
As I said, becoming fate, he wishes to be fate it self, to be able to control everything. He wants to control the life of everything that he can, the life of the gods, and mortals. He wants to become fate, and be able to control life and death. That's the way it is to be seen, Zaros becoming fate in his mind is that. His Corpreal body is needed for him to even have interaction with anything, if not, he is just a ghost, that weak enough to almost be in tier 3.Guthix symbol Adventurerrr Talk The Godless symbol 06:52, February 8, 2014 (UTC)
I know what you mean. But you must not forget that the whole book is written from a very particular perspective. One that is grounded into deep faith. They keep saying they don't have contact but that Zaros will come back, they kept that faith and hope for ever. And all those people writing the chapters are people in power, they have some official status and position. That hierarchy fits completely with the Zarosian church. I could see how they kept believing all that stuff until the end (stuff like "We are not forsaken, and I eagerly await his sign.") which would be a complete opposite ("Zaros - in his wisdom - has forsaken me."). That's just all religion talking there. That's what they believe, not what is true. It could be true, but it doesn't have to be. Also the fact that all chapters are written by high placed people could mean why there is no mention of the Zarosian Desert Bandits or vice versa. After centuries they just lost contact and even knowledge of each other. I think it should indeed be obvious that they were merely guessing what Zaros wanted (in those chapters). In the Zaros podcast they said that it took Zaros millennia to come backtogether again, to be able to think. So it would be (literally) impossible for him to have even tried to communicate his thoughts with his followers. I think it was Mod John A who said that he thinks it's very likely that you can build a self-sustainable empire that would requite next to no input of the king/god/what-ever in order to work. I think the same was true for Zaros and his empire, church and believes. He had Archbishops, priest-kings, etc. all people that can keep his doctrine and empire intact without Zaros being there to do anything.
Yes, your question about the interplay of Fate with Free will is interesting. It reflects a real-life debate. And it's confusing and troubling to a lot. I think Zaros version of Fate is still compatible with Free will. I believe it will also give us more opportunity for free will as you see in the recent movie The Adjustment Bureau. There everything is determined, only trivial things are determined by 'free will'. I remember Osborne saying that Zaros would allow us to live our lives in the way we would like to, unless we come into conflict with some specific ideas he had. I think it's also important to understand fate in a more figurative sense, not in a literal or causal sense. He would not control your fate, you cans till decide to do what-ever, but he could try to manipulate you, without you knowing it, into doing what he wants you to do. Then, he can also just force you, force similar to that in The Adjustment Bureau film or maybe force like Guantanamo bay. Btw, you should see this video of Derren Brown I think it would illustrate perfectly what Zaros would try to do.
I hope this helps too :3 . . . Yours, Void Knight banner Enquidou Talk Quest Icon Crest . . 09:38, February 8, 2014 (UTC)

Ancient Spellbook

Did Zaros create the Ancient Magicks, or was it just that he and his followers used them? DivineLaw (talk) 13:36, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

I think either his followers or he himself put it together, seeing as all the teleports in the book go to places where Zarosian cities/fortresses/temples/etc. stood/stand. Azzanadra (Children of Mah) chatheadEnixus 14:33, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

The Dark Imperator

Since when is Nex a Mahjarrat/Virius/Hydra/Dragon?

Mod Stu: In the alternate universe, Nex was created by the Dark Imperator, and made up of different base components as that's what he/she/it had access to and saw value in. Alter-Nex is nothing to do with the player's actions or time-travelling shenanigans, though the reason Zaros isn't present at all might be related to that.. Zaros is now the Dark Imperator as it seems. Guthix symbol Adventurerrr Talk The Godless symbol 19:35, March 31, 2015 (UTC)

No, the Dark Imperator is Loarnab. Zaros never reached Gielinor in 200th quest verse. Wahisietel rejuvenated chathead Wahisietel (Talk) Quest map icon 19:41, March 31, 2015 (UTC)
Why is Zaros replaced with Loarnab?

Mod Jack: It’s obvious when you think it through.

Because the player never did Meeting History, Jack never became a druid. Instead he became a wicked sorcerer-druid who terrorised the early Gielinorian humans. Guthix had to personally intervene to deal with him, and ended up killing him. Although she understood the necessity of his actions, this alienated Seren to the extent that she withdrew entirely to Tarddiad.

Seren’s proximity to the sleeping Elder Gods is what initially drew Zaros’s attention to Gielinor. Without her, he never became aware of the little planet and is still off somewhere exploring the middle worlds. Having never founded the empire or been betrayed by his own younger siblings, he will be a very different figure.

Without Zaros’s arrival, Loarnab was never slain. This hydra god gradually grew more and more powerful and more and more intelligent as his empire expanded out from Senntisten to gradually overtake the territory of the other gods. As the Dark Imperator, Loarnab ruled his empire with an iron paw, devouring its citizens at his whim. Eventually he even learned to summon demons from Infernus.

Eventually the Loarnabian empire pushed against Menaphos, which prompted Icthlarin to bring a powerful group of Freneskaen sorcerers to Gielinor. These Mahjarrat eventually betrayed the Menaphites and sided with Loarnab once they witnessed his untamed majesty. However, over time some of their number grew weary of the soft living in the empire. Their leader, Zamorak, eventually slew the Dark Imperator and ascended to godhood. The rest, as they say, is history.

Hope that helps :3 . . . Yours, Void Knight banner Enquidou Talk Quest Icon Crest . . 12:28, April 2, 2015 (UTC)

Zaros eats souls?!?!?

Well in Nomad's Elegy Icthlarin says he's never delivered a Zarosian soul to the afterlife before, since they don't go where souls usually go the only possibility is that Zaros did something to them on purpose (Seren does not have the same problem), could he have eaten them for more power? Phantasys (talk) 21:45, February 15, 2016 (UTC)

There is no way of knowing if that is true or not. But you're assuming that it's the case, according to Icthlarin, "they don't goo where souls usually go." Could imply on a lot of things. Remember most of Zarosians are not humans, a huge chunk of them are mostly Mahjarrats, demons, vampyres, and other non humans that respawn or end up in the void after death. Now in this case, either most humans remained allive or not, it could be that a lot of them maybe became prayer energy, or it could be something else, that could have a sort of ritual to avoid going to the underworld, this is proof with desert treasure where you fight some ghost Zarosians.Guthix symbol Adventurerrr Talk The Godless symbol 22:26, February 15, 2016 (UTC)
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